[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Kivam]

Kiv, if the mafia shot Stelio, then either his "view" on me was correct, or they killed someone they knew wasn't the seer. But of course, the existence of the SK muddles this to some degree. Which is why I think you pushing my play as SK rather than anti-town is pretty damn suspicious. It feels like you know the implications of the Stelio kill but are pretending you don't. ---- now that's a reasonable argument, if you assume scum are targeting seer claimants, which leelou's death doesn't square with. (If the serial killed Yates, that leaves a townie block of a scum kill PLUS the vig killing leelou as the only way leelou wasn't killed by scum, which is a whole lot of assuming). Personally, if I were scum I'd have ignored all the claimants; unless there's a game wide agreement on the play and a randomized order, seer would have to be insane to come out (though with this crew, who knows). But your reasoning does hang together, except the part where I already articulated why I think you're a serial more than scum

[Cass]

Sorry guys, took a while to get that out.

 

 

Cass, I make flurries.  It's what I do.  And at EOD in a deadline game, flurries are gonna happen regardless.  Best get used to it.

As above.  If someone wants to point out why this (rushing everyone to snap decisions and allowing 3 remaining wolves the chance to lead through mob mentality) would ever turn out to be beneficial to Town, I'd love to know. 

 

 

@ Darthe, I have night at exactly 2 hours from.... now.

[Kivam]

Gah. Cass, can't read that wot on tapatalk. Can you summarize?

[Kivam]

Vote Count D2.15:Verbarm (4): Nyn [#2192], Saladtosser [#2202], Pral [#2500], Kivam [#2638]Kivam (3): AJ [#2373], Deslami [#2623], Wombat [#2693]AJ (2): Kivam [#2365], Verbarm [#2562]Pral (1): Thane [#1931]Deslami (1): DPR [#2316]Cass (1): Wombat [#2631]Wombat (1): Darthe [#2681]Unvote (1): Cass [#2187]Not Voting (4): Hallia, Krak, Rags, TressAt the gallows: VerbarmReminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

 

-_________

 

Cool, I'm a double voter.

 

Really don't understand how aj slides after being caught in a lie. She with cass that cfds are less than helpful - to easy for scum to simply ride the wave, never have to account for a mislynch, or worse, lead it on a quest for "reactions"

[Kivam]

Quick summary on why I have a serial not scum worry about wombat - 1) no associative tells leaping out at me; 2) play changed for real when getting pegged as too clean; and 3) seems OK work about any lynch. All those are sk warning signs to me.

[hazelkrs1]

@Kivam: AJ wasn't "caught in a lie". He got caught making an argument that didn't make much sense after you and Wimbat and DPR kept speculating about the lack of a fourth kill. Keep reaching for the stars tho

 

@Cass: mob mentality is the mostest funnest part of mafia

[Cass]

@ Kiv - You twist stuff to potential wolf advantage. DPR does the same.

 

The main way you guys are both doing this is by coming up with ways to 'scare' the Town about threats which are entirely possible but not necessarily true.

('Cass is gonna kick your ass' 'Sili/Wombat is SK' (You), 'Cass is working with the Scum' (DPR)). It's the direct association with a particular threat that does the trick. Yet neither of you are willing to say anything direct about the potential risk posed by the other player. It's all 'DPR has his general reasons, yep he is a risk, we all are (downplay)', and the same from him on you. You're talking up all the risks with direct hypotheses - except about each other. And I find that strange. Cohesive almost. Because, what it manages to do in practice is get the Town to be 'legitimately' scared of everyone but the two of you.

[Cass]

(and from what I've heard, you two are the most experienced threats around). 

 

My problem is, I am reading your actions, interactions and consequent Town reactions as something it makes sense that Scum would do. I don't, however, know the intricacies of the game enough to understand the possible pros and cons of what your actions and interrelations  mean.

[hazelkrs1]

Italics are just the best

[WWWwombat]

Back.

 

Kiv, scum had 2 kills to use last night.  They could have hedged their bets by killing one claimant and one non-claimant.

 

Cass, I don't see DPR as scum atm and I'm not sure why you're suspicious of him given that he took a similar stance to yours on Yates.

 

Also, what does everyone think of VerBarm?  He's currently on the gallows.

[WWWwombat]

Des, let's say you have to lead a lynch today but it can't be on me or Kiv.  Who do you pick?

[WWWwombat]

@Kiv: That feel when I start Irish Jetting myself as town >.<

[hazelkrs1]

Des, let's say you have to lead a lynch today but it can't be on me or Kiv. Who do you pick?

DPR

 

I think he has spun a whole lot of honkey today, keeps semi-contradicting himself and being vague all game, and if scum could give some juicy info on other people in the game. If town then not as much, but I think in that scenario I'd prob be more wary of Tress again

 

Barring that, I'd go for Thane, but eh I kinda agree with Darthe that he'd be a better Vig target than lynch candidate

[WWWwombat]

So Des top 4 looks like Kiv, Wombat, DPR, Thane (not necessarily in that order)?

[Kivam]

@Kiv: That feel when I start Irish Jetting myself as town >.<

 

ROTFLMAO

[Kivam]

Back.

 

Kiv, scum had 2 kills to use last night.  They could have hedged their bets by killing one claimant and one non-claimant.

 

Cass, I don't see DPR as scum atm and I'm not sure why you're suspicious of him given that he took a similar stance to yours on Yates.

 

Also, what does everyone think of VerBarm?  He's currently on the gallows.

 

 

Sure, but why?  You either seer hunt or you don't; hedging is just a waste of a play (makes the seer hunt less effective, plus you give up other strategic possibilities by seer hunting - so either do it or don't; half assing it makes no sense at all).  And btw, with a GF, seer-hunting in general isn't an obvious play; a cop-confirmed GF is mafia gold, and killing the cop makes the GF vanilla scum.

[Kivam]

Damn, tapatalk ate one of my posts to Cass.  Back at comp for a bit.

[WWWwombat]

True.  As scum, I usually like to view the GF as a safety blanket rather than something I proactively use.  Pretty clear that probably wasn't Yates' strategy this game though.  I kinda don't see a vig shooting any of the people who died though.

[hazelkrs1]

So Des top 4 looks like Kiv, Wombat, DPR, Thane (not necessarily in that order)?

Pretend I sarcastically quoted my last POE reads list which had those 4 names in red

 

Also, yes

[WWWwombat]

So I take it your reads haven't changed much in the past 3 hours.

[Cass]

OK, in a nutshell. Without all of the specific justifications I was collating.

 

 

Actions/interactions/game results surrounding me in this game are too confusing for me to understand them in the context of them being 100% pro-Town

 

KIV

WOM

DPR

 

 

Actions/interactions with others seemed strange (keeping in mind that I don't know the alignment of the other players are)

 

AJ ---- voted first for Sili. Is tangled in debate with Kiv.

VerBarm ----- Hammered Leelou early on. Pushed mislynch for Sili, 

Thane -----Seemed off, with possibly calculated "anti-Town" interactions with (from memory) Kiv, Yates, Arsis, VerBarm, Nyn. And possible "pocketing" of most of the other players on the board.

DeslArmi ----Because they buddied me too, but skipped out on votes against DPR after 'tunneling' him so hard. Despite the apparent singular focus on DPR, their actual votes were all over the place. Coupled with the fact that all through D2 they've been sprouting --'it's not worth hunting the SK' but 'Hey look, that player is probably the SK!'

Dice ---------because I think it's a little fishy he's so inactive, especially if he has 'scum' reads. Until it's proven otherwise to me, he's not the sort of person who let's the 'wrong' people get away.

Nyn --------- mostly due to earlier posts D1, and probably misunderstandings in our methods of communication.

 

 

Haven't been able to follow well/who haven't posted much

Arsis/Playa

Ragnarok

Hallia

Tress

Krak

 

Kinda like

Darthe

Csarmi (yes, I know this makes little sense in the context of Des, unless I just don't know the normal Des)

 

 

Dead

Yates

Stelio

Leelou

Sili

 

 

 

And shhhhhh Des, I like italics. I substitute them for moar words!

[Kivam]

@ Kiv - You twist stuff to potential wolf advantage. DPR does the same.

 

The main way you guys are both doing this is by coming up with ways to 'scare' the Town about threats which are entirely possible but not necessarily true.

('Cass is gonna kick your ass' 'Sili/Wombat is SK' (You), 'Cass is working with the Scum' (DPR)). It's the direct association with a particular threat that does the trick. Yet neither of you are willing to say anything direct about the potential risk posed by the other player. It's all 'DPR has his general reasons, yep he is a risk, we all are (downplay)', and the same from him on you. You're talking up all the risks with direct hypotheses - except about each other. And I find that strange. Cohesive almost. Because, what it manages to do in practice is get the Town to be 'legitimately' scared of everyone but the two of you.

 

This is the first post of yours I find legitimately off.  I've been very direct about what I'm seeing from Wes: it's fully within both his town and scum toolbag so I have no particular reason to vote for him but am very, very wary of him.  Wes has basically said the same thing about me. 

 

As for getting the town "comfortable" with me, I'm sorry Cass, but what game are you reading?  I've expressly told everyone not to get comfortable with anyone, especially me, because everything I'm posting now as town I would post exactly the same way as scum.  That's why I want people to read my arguments/deductions and think them through for themselves, whether they agree or disagree. When I make that play as scum, I'm doing a lot of things - mostly setting up lynches for after I'm dead - but one thing I'm not doing is getting people to disregard me as a threat. 

 

This whole "get comfortable" theory is so way off it's the first ping I've gotten from you.

[hazelkrs1]

So I take it your reads haven't changed much in the past 3 hours.

Some of the others have slightly but top 4 still look about the same, yeah

 

Why should those have changed in the past 3 hours?

[WWWwombat]

 

So I take it your reads haven't changed much in the past 3 hours.

Some of the others have slightly but top 4 still look about the same, yeah

 

Why should those have changed in the past 3 hours?

 

 

I don't know if they should or shouldn't have.  I was just wondering.

[Kivam]

BS.  He suggested there was a rationale for his theory, but couldn't back it up with anything and didn't even try.  That's not the play of someone who is making a mistake in game logic, it's the play of someone who made a statement they knew wasn't true, got caught, and tried to change the subject. 

 

And, FTR, the only reason to launch a theory into the thread that you know is false is to muddy the waters - and the only one who benefits from that is scum.  Hence the reason he's my top lynch candidate right now.

 

 

@Kivam: AJ wasn't "caught in a lie". He got caught making an argument that didn't make much sense after you and Wimbat and DPR kept speculating about the lack of a fourth kill. Keep reaching for the stars tho

@Cass: mob mentality is the mostest funnest part of mafia