[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[Sili Quirrels]

I think that's as politely as I can put it.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

Tommy if you truly are town this game, you really should just never use EID shenanigans to clear other players. You are WAY too easily duped. Or at least consider the results a lot better. Just being PRESENT for a CFD on a townie should get you like VERY little town cred.

Well I don't really see Alanna as scum having the forethought to talk about how a CFD is fun and she's proud of town for pulling it off, so I'll be curious to see which of us is right.

I think that "I'm proud of us. Kind of." Was likely in reference to her team barely keeping two scummates- Berf and Sili- from being lynched.

 

Plus, the comment should have been null anyways- Alanna in an old school DMer, and likely has very little experience, if any, with a Tommy style EOD. She could have easily made that statement as town or scum.

 

And lastly, do you know how easy it would be to fake that sort of thing as scum, if you were present? Act "proud" of town for securing a lynch?

 

Again, terrible reasoning for clearing her, and if you're town you should SERIOUSLY reconsider how you clear people for their EOD interactions

[Tommyrod]

How long has Alanna been playing?

[hazelkrs1]

Look, I'm going to level with you here. I don't like bringing RL into games, and I'm certainly not expecting you to ease up on me because of it. But I've had a couple of things that came up in RL the past few days that have been eating up a lot of my time and very much stressing me out. I am exhausted and feel run ragged. I would normally never sign up for a mafia game with the kind of RL stuff I have going on right now, but it was completely unexpected and just came up in the last couple of days. I considered asking to sub out, but both of these RL issues should be resolved in the next couple of days, so I'd prefer to try and stick it out. I've been trying to keep up with the game and pitch in when I can. I'm at work right now on my hour hour lunch break, on mobile, so looking at an ISO is not something that's feasible right now, or something that I have time for.

 

I usually wait til later in a game day to vote, but I will vote ##BFKey now instead. I just have too much to deal with today and tomorrow. Again, I don't expect you to ease up on me for this; I am not asking for special treatment. If you think I'm the best lynch for today, fine. But I hope that you all know I would never make up crap about RL to try and get some heat off me, and just take me at my word at this. I just wanted to get this out so that I can devote my time and attention to this RL stuff for the rest of the day.

Why bring up the RL stuff at all then? I don't think you're lying about it, but I DO think it's irresponsible to bring it up in this situation.

 

RL stuff isn't relevant to your alignment, and irrelevant to the game really. Not trying to be a dick, I'm just sayin.

[hazelkrs1]

How long has Alanna been playing?

Loooooong time

[Tommyrod]

Alanna are you saying you won't be posting again during D2?

[Tommyrod]

 

How long has Alanna been playing?

Loooooong time

 

Hmm. I thought she started playing in the last year.

I guess she could be more duplicitous than I assumed.

[hazelkrs1]

I think we got the scum team pretty frazzled right now

 

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

How long has Alanna been playing?

Loooooong time

Hmm. I thought she started playing in the last year.

I guess she could be more duplicitous than I assumed.

She's been playing a good bit longer than I have and is crafty as either town or scum. Strong mafia player.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

How long has Alanna been playing?

Loooooong time

Hmm. I thought she started playing in the last year.

I guess she could be more duplicitous than I assumed.

She's been playing a good bit longer than I have and is crafty as either town or scum. Strong mafia player.

[Tommyrod]

Well that changes things then.

Let's see what happens.

[Tommyrod]

I'll be glad if my initial gut scum reads on Key are correct.

More happy if Verb is correct.

[Sili Quirrels]

problem with saying everything all at once is you're just repeating yourself from then on. i don't know how many different ways i can say alanna and key are town, after posting a stream of consciousness. and im accused of playing badly for it too so i kind of don't want to. nevertheless, little harm in trying to play for the village.

 

alanna is inside her town range, to my naive eyes, especially considering the circumstances ott i guess. not sure why it's wrong not to consider real life troubles, but im not particularly opposed to it. that aside, besides desp's usual nonsense most of the alanna push is tinfoiled, and tinfoiling her is frivolous when there are so many better leans. verbal, pral, me.

 

that said, it is my first game with bfg or key, so maybe i'm wrong about their slot at least. still, i think it's too convenient all my scum leans are expressing an openness to push her, so i run into a road bump again. i think bfgkey is town because i think some of what bfg has posted is weird for scum to post (like going over the thread and posting quotes for later), and it doesn't make sense bfg is scum in context, to me.

 

ftr, this day has gone tommy -> me -> alanna -> bfgkey, i bet mostly because of desp. And I don't think one of these is scum.

[berf]

@Desp - This is exactly why I hate your gambit and these sort of plays. Everyone who see's any fault at all with it is suddenly 'caught' by it. It's just ridiculous and exasperating. I'm already drained just thinking about the inevitable confrontation that is to come.But basically you cast out a false fact and then 'catch' people who might disagree with your personal perception of the game state. After that, going back and iso'ing someone just feeds confirmation bias. I'm not saying don't iso people, not at all, but you build your cases the wrong way around. 

 

What are the reasons I'm scum? And what is wrong with my read on Halli?

[Andrej]

I finally found a way to get around my software corruption so that I can use my laptop again.

 

Unfortunately, my laptop is still mostly broken.

[Andrej]

I still don't feel like we have any resolution on the Des/Arsis/Tommy love triangle. I'm still waiting for more voices on this.

 

I don't think there's as much to this situation as you're thinking there is.

 

It's fairly clear that Despot was lying at this point, so it's more likely that Arsis is legit about being a Watcher and Tom's role is still somewhat in the air. I think his early breadcrumbs point to it being true more than it doesn't so I don't really think tinfoiling at this point is really going to get us anywhere. The most likely scenario in my mind is that the wolves shot elsewhere and hit the Doc protect or something like that as I don't see a scum team holstering N1 ~ever and thinking it's a good idea.

[Sili Quirrels]

It's sunday and I have nothing to do so I'll post about other players who I haven't talked about yet:

 

Berf:Town

 

Argument:

There were purportedly reasons for his inactivity day 1, and it was far too easy to start his wagon for him to be wolfpack. He sounded genuine when he said he needed to catch up, and he caught up quickly. he's regularly expressed disdain to fluff because it makes it difficult for him to keep up.

 

Overall he seems like the calculating sort, or someone who revels in logical deductions. So far his behavior has been consistent with this idea; offhandedly, I would say he has been genuine in respect to tone and how he approaches reads (which is calculating distilled into expression). Objectively I would probably have no trouble clearing him for my own sensibilities.

[Sili Quirrels]

@Aj, or arsis is lying. You can think that way too.

[Sili Quirrels]

secret reading:

 

 

Also, if I know the personality type any, Berf likes to be practical and likes practical-minded people and tools. He's confused easily when things aren't as they 'should' be.

 

[Andrej]

I kind of agree with Berf irt Despot's angle here. I think confirmation bias is definitely playing a factor into it.

 

For one I don't think the information gained is really that reliable considering the way it was handled. I agree that Alanna's statement about you being blocked by a Town RB was weird but iirc she made a post explaining how she thought Sili had soft hinted something. I don't think it explicitly points to her having inside knowledge as to where the NAs went. You have to factor in the amount of misleading information that probably lead people to the conclusions they did. Outright lying in this instance likely lead to a lot of confusion from other players. I think you're overestimating by a lot the validity of information gained through this type of 'gambit' - if that's what you want to call it.

[hazelkrs1]

@Desp - This is exactly why I hate your gambit and these sort of plays. Everyone who see's any fault at all with it is suddenly 'caught' by it. It's just ridiculous and exasperating. I'm already drained just thinking about the inevitable confrontation that is to come.But basically you cast out a false fact and then 'catch' people who might disagree with your personal perception of the game state. After that, going back and iso'ing someone just feeds confirmation bias. I'm not saying don't iso people, not at all, but you build your cases the wrong way around.

 

What are the reasons I'm scum? And what is wrong with my read on Halli?

If you think my gambit was designed to "catch" anyone who disagreed with it or the premise of it, then you really aren't paying attention

 

My gambit was designed to confuse scum since they would have known they didn't block me. Thus, they'd throw out more conjecture of a town RB.

 

This alone wouldn't be enough to damn them and turn them into LOCK SCUM, but if it's people I've already had my eye on, AND they happen to slip that they have TMI, well then yes, that IS enough to make them LOCK SCUM for me

 

And btw I already had my read on both Alanna and Key pretty firmly entrenched- the iso wasn't for me to figure out if I was wrong, the iso is to help out out more evidence so others can see what I see

 

Your defense of Alanna and Key, and especially the bitter tone you take while defending them Berf, is noted

 

Really it just sounds like you're mad for me catching your teammates on what you think of are silly tactics. But Despot tactics are not silly, and certainly aren't Sili tactics. Better luck next time

 

[Sili Quirrels]

I kind of agree with Berf irt Despot's angle here. I think confirmation bias is definitely playing a factor into it.

 

For one I don't think the information gained is really that reliable considering the way it was handled. I agree that Alanna's statement about you being blocked by a Town RB was weird but iirc she made a post explaining how she thought Sili had soft hinted something. I don't think it explicitly points to her having inside knowledge as to where the NAs went. You have to factor in the amount of misleading information that probably lead people to the conclusions they did. Outright lying in this instance likely lead to a lot of confusion from other players. I think you're overestimating by a lot the validity of information gained through this type of 'gambit' - if that's what you want to call it.

Village also needs to factor in that Alanna had earlier said she needed to mull the role claims over. And I will say that when mulling things over it's easy to say things halfway through that are incomplete or err on the conspicuous. This is probably what happened, to my mind.

[Andrej]

@Aj, or arsis is lying. You can think that way too.

 

Yeah that's obviously a possibility too considering there was no NK and if both actions had been focused on Tom he would've seen both parties. I'm not sure I see Arsis claiming during Night for basically no reason as a wolf though

[hazelkrs1]

I kind of agree with Berf irt Despot's angle here. I think confirmation bias is definitely playing a factor into it.

 

For one I don't think the information gained is really that reliable considering the way it was handled. I agree that Alanna's statement about you being blocked by a Town RB was weird but iirc she made a post explaining how she thought Sili had soft hinted something. I don't think it explicitly points to her having inside knowledge as to where the NAs went. You have to factor in the amount of misleading information that probably lead people to the conclusions they did. Outright lying in this instance likely lead to a lot of confusion from other players. I think you're overestimating by a lot the validity of information gained through this type of 'gambit' - if that's what you want to call it.

No, she was pretty much automatically assuming Tommy was towtoon the scenario she laid out.

 

Town!Alanna would never do this in a situation where everything looks muddled and keeping all options open would be prudent

 

If you look at those posts I put focus on, it is clear she is trying to cover all possibilities there, only she conveniently leaves out the one possibility which I was suggesting to be the case. This is because she KNEW that what I was suggesting didn't happen.

 

This is exactly the kind of gambit that helps find scum, and you've seen me do this in the past. Not sure why you're poo pooing on it now

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

I kind of agree with Berf irt Despot's angle here. I think confirmation bias is definitely playing a factor into it.

 

For one I don't think the information gained is really that reliable considering the way it was handled. I agree that Alanna's statement about you being blocked by a Town RB was weird but iirc she made a post explaining how she thought Sili had soft hinted something. I don't think it explicitly points to her having inside knowledge as to where the NAs went. You have to factor in the amount of misleading information that probably lead people to the conclusions they did. Outright lying in this instance likely lead to a lot of confusion from other players. I think you're overestimating by a lot the validity of information gained through this type of 'gambit' - if that's what you want to call it.

Village also needs to factor in that Alanna had earlier said she needed to mull the role claims over. And I will say that when mulling things over it's easy to say things halfway through that are incomplete or err on the conspicuous. This is probably what happened, to my mind.

Alanna automatically believing Tommys claim or assuming it to be true doesn't jive AT ALL with her progression however- as I showed in my iso, she was null/hedging on Tommy for a long time, then after his Beloved Princess claim said that she thought I might be right and that the claim might be fake

 

So that's where she was, and yet the next time it comes around and I claim to have shot him, why would she then assume he was telling the truth the whole time, and start speculating about the extremely unlikely possibility of a town RBer RBing me?

 

Makes zero sense from a town POV