[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if it's occurred to anyone, but what wombat and clovdyx are doing is fishing for a wagon. They aren't genuinely concerned with whether csarmi is scum.What they need is a scapegoat to fill a sinking boat, so they're doing their best to exacerbate some sketchy but not altogether unreasonable play for a town.

It's absolutely unreasonable play for town. When "That post I made was a town post!" is the BEST defense you have going for yourself, that's a bad sign. When you willingly admit to abandoning your own reads to follow sheep somebody else's, it's a bad sign. When every post you make seems to contradict the way the game has gone....it's a bad sign.

 

The fact you're trying to discredit people for this conclusion looks a lot worse for you than it does for us IMO because I see ZERO reason for reading him as town. And no, I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt because he blew up and self voted after minimal pressure a few hours into the game.

Clov, you're pushing Salami as scummy for playing bad instead of trying to figure out whether he can be town despite playing bad. You're reminding me of my scum game again -- specifically how I get late game mislynches by preventing players from forming a plausible explanation for their behavior.

 

Not sure if Clov/Wombat would be w/w while so blatantly double teaming. Clov probably isn't above that though; our coordinated hammer in the Tron game comes to mind.

 

Wombat, you don't have any read on Clov despite appearing to agree with him a lot last night in the Great Siliami Wars?

No, I'm pushing him because I find his play scummy. Can he be town and he's just playing a game that I find absolutely scummy? Sure. And my top townies can be mafia despite playing a game that seems incredibly pro-town, but I'm not going to lynch them over it. I haven't seen a single post from Csarmi that makes me feel good about him. You've got...what? That he blew up and probably wouldn't burn his town meta that way?

 

Like, I don't understand YOUR approach to him this game. You say I'm preventing him from providing a reasonable explanation. He had plenty of opportunity to do so. Instead, he repeated he same post half a dozen times about how he wasn't defending Hallia, even though anybody paying attention to the thread would seemingly disagree with that.

 

Look at everything I've said about Csarmi. What am I wrong about? What are you seeing that I'm not?

How many people that know Salami pretty well have told you he's more likely to be town? One of his huge scum tells last game was that he didn 't get emotional. He's just a very emotional person and takes personal affronts to heart as town. There's several little things sprinkled on top like sandwiches and the fact that he's still here and fighting against your scurrilous slander and the fact that he's a strong counter wagon to one of the scummy players in this game and you've got a probable townie cake. Last game he and I could read Tress as town despite her never even commenting on the game, just being upset. Some play doesn't make sense as scum and like Sili I think making himself a lightning rod of negative attention qualifies.

 

So I should discount my read, based on his gameplay, due to the metaread of people whose alignment I don't know? Stop it. AJ and you are PROBABLY town (more convinced on AJ than you based on how you've been approaching me lately)...but you're both good enough to be convincing early. You're also both bad enough that you can be wrong if town - just like anybody else. I certainly could be wrong about him, but his play makes me confident enough to take that risk.

 

 

Also, LOL at "your scurrilous slander". Great job.

Yes. You should. And I think you are good enough to tell the difference between genuine and forged meta reads. Read more here if you've forgotten how to play: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27781512&postcount=3

[WWWwombat]

 

 

I don't know if it's occurred to anyone, but what wombat and clovdyx are doing is fishing for a wagon. They aren't genuinely concerned with whether csarmi is scum.What they need is a scapegoat to fill a sinking boat, so they're doing their best to exacerbate some sketchy but not altogether unreasonable play for a town.

It's absolutely unreasonable play for town. When "That post I made was a town post!" is the BEST defense you have going for yourself, that's a bad sign. When you willingly admit to abandoning your own reads to follow sheep somebody else's, it's a bad sign. When every post you make seems to contradict the way the game has gone....it's a bad sign.

 

The fact you're trying to discredit people for this conclusion looks a lot worse for you than it does for us IMO because I see ZERO reason for reading him as town. And no, I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt because he blew up and self voted after minimal pressure a few hours into the game.

Clov, you're pushing Salami as scummy for playing bad instead of trying to figure out whether he can be town despite playing bad. You're reminding me of my scum game again -- specifically how I get late game mislynches by preventing players from forming a plausible explanation for their behavior.

 

Not sure if Clov/Wombat would be w/w while so blatantly double teaming. Clov probably isn't above that though; our coordinated hammer in the Tron game comes to mind.

 

Wombat, you don't have any read on Clov despite appearing to agree with him a lot last night in the Great Siliami Wars?

 

 

I don't.  I don't give out town reads just because someone agrees with me.  That's an easy way to be manipulated.  Clov agreeing with me on fairly obvious stuff.  While I like that, it isn't something that a good player couldn't do as scum.  If Salami were to flip scum, I'd probably feel slightly better about Clov.  But Salami hasn't flipped yet and I don't want to associate a read that I don't have to.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

I like Alanna's approach to the game so far.

Can you talk to me about her? I have some philosophy I'll share soon but she was one of the people in my mental mix of those that need spotlight.

 

Did you ever do this? Might help explain why I feel so bleh about her.

 

a little I think... and later I changed my mind... I didn't like her read list and ger subsequent posts... btw i have no idea how to read Alanna and didn't really try hard. she's on my suspect list cause of that dislike and cause I don't really know

 

does that make sense?

 

probably not

 

sorry, can't really help ya with Alanna

 

 

You disagree with them, or you think they're complete garbage?

 

 

In terms of the exchange that went on between Despo, Hallia, and csarmi - I feel like csarmi came out looking the worse here. He seemed to wiggle a lot on how he felt about Hallia, sometimes acting as though he was pretty confident she's town, other times agreeing she looked sketchy, and then that weird post about how, if she's town, he "needs her." Why? Because she's one of the few people who hasn't thrown suspicion your way?

 

I also just personally dislike that he said he doesn't like to lynch null reads on Day 1, but rather scum (well, duh, we all do, if we can get to where we feel sure enough that someone is scum). Yet when prodded by Clov to, you know, scumhunt and take a look back at Wombat (one of his top suspects, but one he felt unsure about), he declined on account of being too lazy to reread. How do you expect to find a stronger scumread to lynch then, csarmi?  Bottom line is, you come off sounding like scum who is content to sit back and see what lynch possibilities pop up that you can jump on. I see that you're doing a bit of a reread now, but I still don't like the perspective you took there.

 

As for Hallia, I feel a little bit better about her after her re-read, but she's not clear for me by any means. There were times there where she still came off to me a bit as looking for places to take advantage of a player, rather than truly scumhunting (such as in post 1147, where she didn't seem to get why Despo backed off Thane - I thought Despo had explained that pretty clearly by then). And having done some detailed rereads myself as scum before, in order to look like I'm trying to scumhunt and get some pressure off of me, I'm still leery of her.

 

Csarmi, I believe you explained why Hallia looks better to you now, but can you explain specifically what you mean about her responding in real time, or something? And why that makes her look more townie to you?

 

Also, some thoughts on some players I haven't weighed in on yet -

 

As far as Yates, he's looking all right to me so far with his catch-up posts. I don't think it was weird he didn't weigh in on some of the current thread stuff, because he hadn't caught up there yet. Makes sense to me.

 

I will admit Sili has made a few posts that seem off to me, but since I don't know his usual tone or playstyle at all, I'm willing to just keep a close eye on him for now. He has also made some good insights with some of his posts.

 

I really can't read Tommy at all. I've played like one game with him. I see that Despo's gone after him a bit, and while my views are aligning a lot with Despo's this game, I'm leery about his take on Tommy because the one game I've played before with the two of them, they went at each other really aggressively the whole time, so I'm wondering if they're just usually like that with each other.

 

Would really like to hear more from Pral; he never posts much, but I'm surprised he hasn't weighed in more. Verb often doesn't post on the weekend at all. Hopefully SP will check in soon.

 

[Yates]

And you think it's likely that scum would be thinking the same way that I was at the same moment, even if it's something that seems small to you? There are maybe 5 wolves I know who can do this to me. Salami is not one of them.

Are you saying you were thinking the same way in the first example? I have no way of knowing if you agree or if you were just saying you were following his logic.

The other two were pretty easy/obvious pokes that could have been done by anyone. In fact, if you go back and look, I'm sure at least ONE other person made similar "observations" in regards to Thane's needing to post or leaving.

[Sili Quirrels]

she reads like an infj.

 

don't know what else to say about that.

[Yates]

Wombat and Despothera strike me as people who I could think of as scum even if they were town. I don't know what to think.

You are right. But Des is Town. Wombat looks super scummy but I wouldn't be overly surprised to see him flip Town. He rides that razor edge.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if it's occurred to anyone, but what wombat and clovdyx are doing is fishing for a wagon. They aren't genuinely concerned with whether csarmi is scum.What they need is a scapegoat to fill a sinking boat, so they're doing their best to exacerbate some sketchy but not altogether unreasonable play for a town.

It's absolutely unreasonable play for town. When "That post I made was a town post!" is the BEST defense you have going for yourself, that's a bad sign. When you willingly admit to abandoning your own reads to follow sheep somebody else's, it's a bad sign. When every post you make seems to contradict the way the game has gone....it's a bad sign.

 

The fact you're trying to discredit people for this conclusion looks a lot worse for you than it does for us IMO because I see ZERO reason for reading him as town. And no, I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt because he blew up and self voted after minimal pressure a few hours into the game.

Clov, you're pushing Salami as scummy for playing bad instead of trying to figure out whether he can be town despite playing bad. You're reminding me of my scum game again -- specifically how I get late game mislynches by preventing players from forming a plausible explanation for their behavior.

 

Not sure if Clov/Wombat would be w/w while so blatantly double teaming. Clov probably isn't above that though; our coordinated hammer in the Tron game comes to mind.

 

Wombat, you don't have any read on Clov despite appearing to agree with him a lot last night in the Great Siliami Wars?

No, I'm pushing him because I find his play scummy. Can he be town and he's just playing a game that I find absolutely scummy? Sure. And my top townies can be mafia despite playing a game that seems incredibly pro-town, but I'm not going to lynch them over it. I haven't seen a single post from Csarmi that makes me feel good about him. You've got...what? That he blew up and probably wouldn't burn his town meta that way?

 

Like, I don't understand YOUR approach to him this game. You say I'm preventing him from providing a reasonable explanation. He had plenty of opportunity to do so. Instead, he repeated he same post half a dozen times about how he wasn't defending Hallia, even though anybody paying attention to the thread would seemingly disagree with that.

 

Look at everything I've said about Csarmi. What am I wrong about? What are you seeing that I'm not?

How many people that know Salami pretty well have told you he's more likely to be town? One of his huge scum tells last game was that he didn 't get emotional. He's just a very emotional person and takes personal affronts to heart as town. There's several little things sprinkled on top like sandwiches and the fact that he's still here and fighting against your scurrilous slander and the fact that he's a strong counter wagon to one of the scummy players in this game and you've got a probable townie cake. Last game he and I could read Tress as town despite her never even commenting on the game, just being upset. Some play doesn't make sense as scum and like Sili I think making himself a lightning rod of negative attention qualifies.

 

So I should discount my read, based on his gameplay, due to the metaread of people whose alignment I don't know? Stop it. AJ and you are PROBABLY town (more convinced on AJ than you based on how you've been approaching me lately)...but you're both good enough to be convincing early. You're also both bad enough that you can be wrong if town - just like anybody else. I certainly could be wrong about him, but his play makes me confident enough to take that risk.

 

 

Also, LOL at "your scurrilous slander". Great job.

Yes. You should. And I think you are good enough to tell the difference between genuine and forged meta reads. Read more here if you've forgotten how to play: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=27781512&postcount=3

 

 

No. I shouldn't.  If you genuinely think that, you're an awful player.   And I know you're not awful, so is this coming from Tom as mafia or Tom as incredibly arrogant town who thinks everybody should listen to him?

[Tommyrod]

It's coming from Tom who thinks when multiple people are explaining to you how your top scum read is likely to flip town based on our collective meta understanding of him as a player, you should re-evaluate your read and find another wolf.

[Yates]

Alright. Need to get some work done around the house. Be back later.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

Wombat and Despothera strike me as people who I could think of as scum even if they were town. I don't know what to think.

You are right. But Des is Town. Wombat looks super scummy but I wouldn't be overly surprised to see him flip Town. He rides that razor edge.

 

Me neither. It's like Tom, I don't know if I should trust him; I wouldn't be surprised if he flipped scum

[WWWwombat]

Salami / Wombat at 4-4 votes earlier is the first game I can recall on DM with tight D1 wagons. That's a good sign.

 

Yeah, we don't get competing trains enough.  Happens a bit more if certain players are playing.

 

 

 

its also not my fault if i dont care i come off as a little scummy, since i can get away with it

My motto is - and I should probably add it to my sig - I don't care about LOOKING Town, I just BE Town. So that's a good attitude to reinforce because I feel like a lot of low content posters that are Town are afraid of being "wrong."

 

 

Unless you're scum, that is.

 

 

Wombat I feel like you're avoiding me despite me being one of your most vocal detractors. Sup? Would you lynch Clov?

 

I'm not avoiding you, but I've sort of given up on changing your opinion.  If things went that way, I would lynch Clov, but I think there are better candidates.

[Tommyrod]

 

And you think it's likely that scum would be thinking the same way that I was at the same moment, even if it's something that seems small to you? There are maybe 5 wolves I know who can do this to me. Salami is not one of them.

Are you saying you were thinking the same way in the first example? I have no way of knowing if you agree or if you were just saying you were following his logic.

The other two were pretty easy/obvious pokes that could have been done by anyone. In fact, if you go back and look, I'm sure at least ONE other person made similar "observations" in regards to Thane's needing to post or leaving.

I don't understand what you don't understand a lot this concept. Let me try this:

 

Think of behavioral psychology. Do you think scum and town will have the same internal mental thought processes given the same external stimulus?

[Tommyrod]

Wombat do you think what Clov is saying to me right now is reasonable or displays a town mindset?

[WWWwombat]

Official Vote Count:

 

Csarmi (4): Leelou, Des, Wombat, Clov

Wombat (4): AJ, Tommy, Csarmi, Sili

Clov (1): Nyn

Thane (1): Des

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

 

Deadline Set for Friday 9pm MST

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141017T21&p0=3862&fg1=80c2da&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

Not Voting (7): SP, Thane, Pral, Verbal, Alanna, Yates, Hally

 

Anyone else find Des' vote odd given that I'm apparently now one of his scum reads?  Shouldn't he be on my wagon?

[Tommyrod]

As an aside, Wombat has a little bit of a breaking he fourth wall approach to his posting lately that makes me think he could be town. He's more... lofty. Compare this with Clov who is doubling down in the thought trenches.

[Sili Quirrels]

Pretty sure there were 5 on wombat. I counted earlier.

[Tommyrod]

[unvote]

 

[v]Clov[/v]

 

Let's go this way.

[Sili Quirrels]

As an aside, Wombat has a little bit of a breaking he fourth wall approach to his posting lately that makes me think he could be town. He's more... lofty. Compare this with Clov who is doubling down in the thought trenches.

Maybe Wombat is just a better player?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

As an aside, Wombat has a little bit of a breaking he fourth wall approach to his posting lately that makes me think he could be town. He's more... lofty. Compare this with Clov who is doubling down in the thought trenches.

Maybe Wombat is just a better player?

They're both very good players.

[Sili Quirrels]

I see.

 

Well I'm fine whichever way this seesaw teeters.

 

[unvote]

[v]clovdyx[/v]

[Sili Quirrels]

For what it's worth, even if Wombat is scum, given the last couple of pages I think clovdyx will get better traction.

 

So that's my excuse.

[Tommyrod]

For what it's worth, even if Wombat is scum, given the last couple of pages I think clovdyx will get better traction.

 

So that's my excuse.

What do you mean?

[WWWwombat]

 

 

semi-mindmeld

Okay. That's why I didn't notice it. Those are TERRIBLE examples and absolutely do NOT in any way resemble "mindmelds."

 

1st quote, for example. That's just Tommy "understanding your train of thought" and, as he put it earlier when I questioned him on something, that doesn't mean he necessarily AGREES with it. So that's not a midmeld.

 

2 people pushing on Thane to post is not a mindmeld.

 

2 people noticing that Thane called it quits for the day is not a mindmeld.

 

You aren't finishing each other's sentences or anything like that. You are just poking at obvious poke points.

And you think it's likely that scum would be thinking the same way that I was at the same moment, even if it's something that seems small to you? There are maybe 5 wolves I know who can do this to me. Salami is not one of them.

 

 

Seems pretty thin to me.

[Tommyrod]

Yet it tends to work for me. Haters gonna hate.

[WWWwombat]

Wombat do you think what Clov is saying to me right now is reasonable or displays a town mindset?

 

It's definitely reasonable imo.  Could be a town or scum mindset.  All I can really tell from it is that he doesn't want to just sheep you and AJ.