[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[WWWwombat]

*drumroll*

 

Pushing Sili on a weak hunch instead of voting Thane despite being more apparently suspicious of Thane

 

*drumroll*

 

Sponging Des on Thane in the first place

 

*drumroll*

 

Suggesting we shouldn't expect much D1

 

*drumroll*

 

Soft pushing but not really pushing Salami, Hallia, Clov

 

*drumroll*

 

Arguing a vapid point with Nyn and FoSing her

 

*drumroll*

 

Ignoring power players like AJ, Des, myself

 

 

How were his early posts GOOD? His early posts were some of his sketchiest. Because he had a mostly consistent narrative? He's not an inexperienced player; he's regarded as one of the better scummers around DM, self consistency is expected. What's lacking is the... panache.

 

 

I was about equally suspicious of Thane and Sili.  Your hedge sketched me out.

 

Yoiu can call noticing the same thing sponging if you want.  It's a pretty thin reason whatever you call it.

 

I didn't suggest we shouldn't expect much.  I suggested that you shouldn't expect me to have firmly developed fully reasoned reads on early D1.

 

I was pushing Hallia.  Wasn't pushing Salami at all.  I was probing Clov.  That's a thing townies do when they want reads.

 

My disagreement with Nyn was no more "vapid" than half of the stuff you'd flung at me to that point.

 

I haven't been ignoring you.  I've been responding to you quite a bit.  I've been "ignoring" Des and AJ, so far in that I'm mainly observing them until I have something to say to them.  There are plenty of other players I'm still watching.  Like Verbal and Leelou.

[csarmi]

Like all those little comments of Thane is frozen. Or AJ is rustled. I consider them a bad sign. Feels more like a nudge to rile people up and and maybe get them to get all defensive or overreact and then go all.... AH! SEE! Plus I didn't really feel like Thane was frozen or AJ was rustled so the comments weren't even legit.

 

Anyone recall a game where Salami was scum and got lynched early on? I wanna see if he uses the frustrated self voting thing in that alignment as well.

Well i did see those. You didn't. I get how and why my style dont appeal to you seeing you like to think out stufff first and post second while im the very opposits.

 

As for your question: i have never been lynched as scum on day one.

[WWWwombat]

As for the discussion of Clov's reaction test, I thought it was meh and kinda amateurish, but I don't see why that makes him scum.  Tommy's arguments I can kinda get cuz apparently he sees a meta/tone thing, but aside from that, I don't see how there's more scum motivation for that particular move than there is town motivation.

[WWWwombat]

 

I was beginning to think the same about those two in particular.

 

Can't say that I'm amazed with how Hallia defends herself with "it's a waste of time" etc though

 

Csarmi I need to wrap my head around more. I think he has a tendency to overestimate how villagery he is so that could explain why he got so butt hurt. I've also only seen him do stuff like that as town. What worries me is it's kind of become site meta that the AtE and self vote tends to get people cleared. I wouldn't put it past him to pull something slimy like that if he's actually a wolf in this situation.

That's my same internal thought process on Salami. After the last game I told Nyn Salami's huge scumtell was the fact that he didn't get emotional even once despite the game being the third biggest emofest on DM.

 

Wombat claiming Salami doesn't get emotional as town kind of blew my mind.

 

 

That's not what I said about Salami at all.  I said I haven't seen him quit like that.  Read better.

[csarmi]

 

My problem with Thane is that his tone always seems off to me and scummy. And half the time what he says doesn't make sense to me. Not sure if it's a language thing or what. The only difference I see is that on spaceballs, for instance, he was very much at the sidelines and coasting through with the off post here and there. He also really enjoyed using the confused card. Here so far he's meeting posts head on in real time. So it gives me pause. So I'm giving him a tentative null for now.

 

Looking forward to see what Des meant.

It's true that Thane can often look scummy as town a lot, but I've also been able to clear him as town in the past

 

The whole way he opened the game was really wolfy, trying too hard to look like a friendly ol townie like everyone else, and then tried deflecting after I voted him and has had continuously bad tone.

 

I also just wolfed with him and his posts look exactly the same as they did in that game. Overselling paranoia, overselling his towniness, overselling that he's a chummy dude who everyone should wanna party with

He is overselling these all the time i am afraid so i am not sure youf point is valid. I wish Thane waz so simple.

[WWWwombat]

Most of Wombat's reasoning that you quoted is contingent on Thane being scum. Me hedging on Thane -- bad if he's scum. Salami chainsaw -- only works if Thane is scum. His entire reason for voting Sili basically comes down to bad tone that a sneaky wolf would make, and didn't seem phased by me telling him point blank that Sili is a wolfy villager and a new player, so once his entire hunch went out of the window, what did he do?

 

Srsly?  I said I might have a weak associative read cooking and you see that as "most of my reasoning?"  What?

[csarmi]

 

Tommy, any thoughts on Verbal?

Salami wants others to make points for him like CRAZY

I wanted to see if he saw the same thing i did. I expounded on it later.

[csarmi]

 

Whatever. Not gonna spend my time working on the game when this is what i get for it.

(Self voted before this)

 

Yeahhhhhh thinking Salami trying to pull some good ol AtE

Rather weird seeing you never saw me ate as scum cause i never did.

[WWWwombat]

Yet he's been told that his Sili vote is probably bad and he's made commentary that he dislikes Nyn, Hallia, Salami, and even you -- I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.

 

In a game thick with meta knowledge, Wombat is still voting the one player he dosn't have meta with for what are essentially someone else's meta reasons. I hate that.

 

So I'm failing to see why you (or anyone else) is easily convinced he's a villager.

 

I'm voting based on tone, not meta.

 

 

Another thing with Wombat is that when he's a villager he wields it like a sword.

 

He's sharp.

 

He's got bravado.

 

I don't really feel that here. Those lengthy catch up posts with no real in depth analysis felt more like he was going through the motions imo

 

 

 

Another thing with Wombat is that when he's a villager he wields it like a sword.

 

He's sharp.

 

He's got bravado.

 

I don't really feel that here. Those lengthy catch up posts with no real in depth analysis felt more like he was going through the motions imo

 

Yes, this. When I was scum with Wombat he made lots of one-two posts with semi-useless quotes and retorts, and when he was doing his catchup sequence here I kept thinking "where's he going with this?" like he started 5 paths and didn't walk down any of them.

 

 

I usually force the action to some degree, but I also like letting things develop a bit.  Otherwise, everyone is just reacting to me which isn't very useful.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

im gellin' as well. if i see something ill say it, but its sounding like clovdyx is a good bet.

What are your current impressions of the game?

 

 

 

im gellin' as well. if i see something ill say it, but its sounding like clovdyx is a good bet.

What are your current impressions of the game?

 

well to be quite honest, it's like swimming with the river's current. I sit and see that all there is to be held and tasted is summer salt lapping at the belt. A coral reef, where the show is funneled and beholden as a gift, and for its sake i must be in equal parts modest and content that I am just a participant. Neither active cog or dissinterested party.

 

 

This post is so Zen and so scummy.

[WWWwombat]

You don't see how Wombat assuming Thane is scum in his early posting to FOS other players and then voting Sili to maintain him as top wagon over Thane and never really discussing Thane again makes them likely scum partners? He literally said Thane was off, sponging you in the process, then said he didn't like how Salami and I handled him and therefore ignored him. He simultaneously found Thane scummy and found Salami and I scummy for finding Thane scummy. How is that normal townie reasoning?

It's a skeptical face.

 

 

Really?  You're blaming me for the Thane wagon stalling out?  The guy who said he was probably gonna unvote the minute someone else hopped on?

[csarmi]

 

 

AJ, was Csarmi meant to be green on your reads list in #701? Or was black correct there?

Yeah, idk the color went away.

 

I'm assuming you're going to ask me why next?

 

I'll just answer. While I'm afraid that as Despot pointed out Csarmi could be trying to force his meta, I'm not sure I want to believe that yet. I strongly associate emotional outbursts/rage quits from him to align with his town game. I even subbed in for him in the House Mafia game after he quit and he was villa there. I'm not going to lock him in over it, but for now I'm content to leave him as a soft green and see how he plays when he comes back.

Just a clarification. I didnt sub out of House cause emo or anything. But because TG made it impossible for me to continue when he connected ongoing games.

[WWWwombat]

 

AJ, was Csarmi meant to be green on your reads list in #701?  Or was black correct there?

 

Yeah, idk the color went away.

 

I'm assuming you're going to ask me why next?

 

I'll just answer. While I'm afraid that as Despot pointed out Csarmi could be trying to force his meta, I'm not sure I want to believe that yet. I strongly associate emotional outbursts/rage quits from him to align with his town game. I even subbed in for him in the House Mafia game after he quit and he was villa there. I'm not going to lock him in over it, but for now I'm content to leave him as a soft green and see how he plays when he comes back.

 

 

 

Salami didn't emo quit that game:

 

Hello,

 

So apparently I got a lot of flak for replacing out of the game.

 

Some of you just didn't seem to understand the reason (which is good, as the point was to make sure to affect the game as minimally as possible). But I got called out on these all over the boards (for which I couldn't even answer as you don't talk about ongoing games), and also in the game thread.

 

That I would emo-quit and all.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth. There was nothing emotional about my quit, it was a logical decision. Under the circumstances there was no other way the two games (House and the Reboot game) could go on and function normally.

 

I suppose it is partially my fault. In some of the recent games I did actions that could look similar to the casual observer (different sort of claims).

 

What happened in these games is TG's fault, however and I'm pretty sure he agrees with it - TG, please let me know if you don't or if you see some things in other ways. I don't want to attack TG in any way with this btw, after he made his mistake, he handled the situation very well, he acted really in an exemplary way. I take this oppurtunity to thank him for it again.

 

---

So what happened?

 

TG has put me into an impossible situation where I couldn't play on and had to sub out from both games. He referenced my meta using three (or four) ONGOING games. Worse, he did that at the VERY same time in TWO games (in the other two games I was dead already, the Thrawn one and the Hally game).

 

These two games (House and Reboot) had quite a few players in common. I also have to add here that we have just had a long argument about claims in the dead thread of the (still ongoing) Once upon a Hally game.

 

There was no way I could play on and keep those two games separate (at the minimum, it was impossible to play on and keep my interactions with TG separate). A case of way too much information.

 

There was no way I could react to those questions and meta stuff without directly giving info into the other game (at the very least, to directly give info to TG). Worse, I knew that he was misrepping me badly and that he did that in two games at once meant that I already had TMI to his alignment - he was going to be in scum in at least one of those else it was going to be pointless).

 

So. I did the only possible thing under the circumstances - subbed out of both games. It doesn't solve the situation entirely, but at least my replacement won't know my motivations and can react normally.

 

---

TL;DR - I didn't emo-quit, I made a perfectly cold-spirited decission, the only possible one. It did bug me badly afterwards that people take this as an emo-quit (in both games, actually). I never emo-quit games. Never. Don't even emo anymore.

 

---

Really short TL;DR version (and the reason there was no way it was ever going to be resolved) - TG put me into a situation where I could be sure that he was scum in AT LEAST one of those games going. That's too much information. Can't play on just because of that already.

 

Talked to both mods but there was no saving. The mods in both games did their best by the way, I also take this oppurtunity to thank them for it. To add to the interconnection, one of the mods was actually playing in one of the going ongoing game at that point.

 

---

Thanks for listening. If some of you would like to discuss this further or in detail, you may do this here.

 

Csarmi

[WWWwombat]

[unvote]

 

[v]Wombat[/v]

 

Sometimes I want to e-strangle you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

im gellin' as well. if i see something ill say it, but its sounding like clovdyx is a good bet.

What are your current impressions of the game?

 

well to be quite honest, it's like swimming with the river's current. I sit and see that all there is to be held and tasted is summer salt lapping at the belt. A coral reef, where the show is funneled and beholden as a gift, and for its sake i must be in equal parts modest and content that I am just a participant. Neither active cog or dissinterested party.

 

???

 

busy being swav.

 

my impression is agreeable because the level of activity means i dont have to be a particularly active participant as i've needed to be in the past. tom was incorrect by the way, this is my 2nd or third game, and i would like to be mafia at some point just to put on the skin.

 

 

Interesting.  This makes me feel a bit better about you.

 

 

Because of the outburst.

 

Is this really so hard to wrap your head around? lol

 

Is it a good reason? No - but it works for me.

 

Typically I like to give people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't disgusting humans who would debase themselves emotionally in order to alleviate pressure/attention on them.

 

If I'm wrong and that's actually what he was doing then I will be rather disappointed he stooped to that level, but for now I don't think it's worth poking him over.

 

How is AtE debasing or make someone a disgusting human?  It's just an acting job, just like a lot of what scum do.

 

 

 

Because of the outburst.

 

Is this really so hard to wrap your head around? lol

 

Is it a good reason? No - but it works for me.

 

Typically I like to give people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't disgusting humans who would debase themselves emotionally in order to alleviate pressure/attention on them.

 

If I'm wrong and that's actually what he was doing then I will be rather disappointed he stooped to that level, but for now I don't think it's worth poking him over.

FWIW this perfectly matches my thinking on Salami. If he's scum he's actively burning his town meta to slip out. Does he do this D1? Only if he's an omega wolf PR.

 

 

This is a better argument.

[WWWwombat]

I'm reading Siri kinda like I do Graendal's Favourite, for those of you who know him.

 

No one is like GF.  Except maybe Thorum but only a little bit.

[hazelkrs1]

Wombat you're ignoring me?

 

[WWWwombat]

 

 

@Clov - lol i associate Lee being snarky (ans especially having a real bite) with her town game. So that's probably a complete null.

Then what could you possibly have seen that made you feel good about following me early?

I think I might have been confusing here without noticing. There are a few separate points here:

 

1) Clov you said you always associated snarky with Lee's scum game. I've always associated it with her town game. As you usually saw her as scum and me i usually saw her as town, it's evident

A) how we got to this conclusion

B) how we are both wrong here and it's kind of proven that it's a null tell on her.

 

2)Please note that i wasn't aware of this when i made my original reply to you and added my vote.

 

3) In fact i voted her cause i thought we likely saw the same thing there and that you were referring to her not having confidence, snark and real bite (all of which if there I'd find town tell in her).

 

 

Kinda weird how you popped back in with a good post without any reference to the self-vote.  What was up earlier.  Did you cool off or something?

[WWWwombat]

Should be "What was up earlier?"

[WWWwombat]

So far I find Sili waaaaaaaaaay easier to understand than GF. Like its not even REMOTELY close

 

 

 

I refuse to believe that the only way to read a player as town is if/when he has an emo tantrum. A player should be read by game play and content. Salami prolly has the worst content in the game thus far.

...wah? Emotions are part of the game. Reading emotional reactions to determine if they're genuine is also a BIG part of the game.

 

That being said I don't think Salami faking emo as scum would be just a terrible terrible thing like AJ is acting like. I don't think that outburst cleared Salami whatsoever

 

 

Agree 100% on both of these lol.

[WWWwombat]

That being said, content should be a big part too, moreso the later in the game you are.

[csarmi]

FTR i don't use AtE as a tool. When I'm emotional it's cause I'm emotional.

 

Tommy had a valid point that I'm like a million times more likely to get emotional as town which is somewhat unfortunate or unfair (i shouldnt be cleared so easily as town), but that's how it is. My theory is that it's because as town i am emotionally attachex to my side and also i know im right. So people accusing me touches me on an emotional level.

 

Aa mafia i am not emotuonally attached to my side but by cold logic. I am a hopeless romantic i always want good to win...

 

So when i get attacked aa scum i have no emotional attachment in the first place AND i know the person is right in the second place so im likely to react cool and logically.

 

In other words i feel i am attacked personally when i am town.

I feel my character ia attacked as scum.

[csarmi]

I slep Wombat thank you.

[csarmi]

You know what people do T night.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

I refuse to believe that the only way to read a player as town is if/when he has an emo tantrum. A player should be read by game play and content. Salami prolly has the worst content in the game thus far.

...wah? Emotions are part of the game. Reading emotional reactions to determine if they're genuine is also a BIG part of the game.

 

That being said I don't think Salami faking emo as scum would be just a terrible terrible thing like AJ is acting like. I don't think that outburst cleared Salami whatsoever

 

 

I rather not get tangled with interperting AtE as any sort of tell. I've seen Cory AtE as town. I've seen ApE Ate as scum (and get cleared because of it and later win the game). I have mentioned several times that it did give me a bit pause...... but I'm still trying to factor in everything he's done. So yeah, when someone tells me he's green in their list JUST because he AtE and he typically does that as town... and is gonna disregard his content just because of his overreaction to two votes.... then yes... I'm gonna name it for what is is. Which is ridiculous.

 

If Salami is a frustrated townie then he needs to step to the plate, explain himself, scumhunt and catch scummies. I am definitely not gonna give him a pass just because he had a fit about having two votes on him. I think he's intelligent enough as scum to fake it, and impatient enough as town to get all uppity about it. Ergo at this point I'm going to disregard his AtE and self vote because I'm not gonna drown in the WIFOM. And if he has the best interest of town in mind then he should cut the crap and start acting like one. Or alternatively be lynched because his content has been terrible.

 

 

Like this post.

 

 

TL;DR:

 

1) I got frsutrated by Nyn zaking my townie posts and posting them as if they were scumtells.

2) I didn't quit, I went to sleep (as I promised I would).

3) I didn't AtE. (If I did, that probably would be a strong town tell on me cause I never ever did that as scum)

 

Ok.  You posts have been better since you came back so I'm inclined to believe you.  Buddying is not a towntell though.  It's a scumtell but not a very reliable one.

[hazelkrs1]

Salami IS a lot more likely to be emo as town but meta shouldn't necessarily be used to clear someone 100% in a situation like this

 

However Salami starting to show WIM IS slightly diminishing NY scum read on him