[Advanced] Woodstock 1969 Mafia - Town wins

[csarmi]

Hey Salami wanna take a stab at a scumteam solve for me? Support it with some thread evidence?

Sounds great. If I have any energy when I get home I'll try. But that's unlikely I'm having the worst day on weeks.

[csarmi]

Did BFG say she wasn't gonna be around? I forget. I feel like I can't recall a single BFG post. I'm getting to that middle of the week deep exhaustion period and need help.

 

If you are town, please talk.

BFG is around (usually) in UK evenings. Its 15:13 there now. Tends to be there between 7pm thru the evening. Sometimes in the morning.

[csarmi]

I'm not actually clear on how a symp works. He knows the scum team but they don't know him?

Several flavours exist.

 

The symp may or may not know who the Mafia are.

The symp may or may not have access to the QT (but can never post there).

The Mafia may or may not be aware of a symp existing.

The Mafia may or may not be allowed to try and recruit the symp (either via special action or kill).

[csarmi]

I'm not actually clear on how a symp works. He knows the scum team but they don't know him?

But this is the most common scenario yes.

 

Note that if the symp has QT access, Mafia can symp check by setting a task (post about a purple elephant).

[csarmi]

So what is actually going on?

Kate's vs Tommy/Despo.

 

Drunk symp theory.

 

Despo thinks I'm scum.

 

Some susp on you but I forgot why.

 

AJ claimed vigging Darthe.

 

BFG posted wagonomics.

 

AJ posted some wagonomics.

 

I think the Len lynch clears you.

 

And Thane and Tom.

 

Hally's flip clears Tommy.

 

AJ is most likely Vig.

 

Tom claims he wasn't blocked.

[csarmi]

Also if Mafia has a roleblocker they blow... Not blocking AJ and/or Tommy sounds weird.

[Tommyrod]

I could have been blocked, I don't know because I tried to visit Darthe.

[Tommyrod]

But my thinking is, if there's a mafia RB, why not block and shoot me or at least block me and shoot Vos? Why Hallia?

 

Speaking of which, where is Vos?

[csarmi]

I could have been blocked, I don't know because I tried to visit Darthe.

You should get a report even if your target dies.

 

Usually doesn't matter... But in the TTSS game I mentioned earlier, Rags vigged our godfather, he flipped godfather and Peace viewed him SCUM that night.

[Tommyrod]

I got "no result" so I guess that suggests a RB then.

 

Who would be RB? Someone loud or quiet?

[csarmi]

Dunno. Would you play a role blocker differently?

[csarmi]

An ideal role blocker should be deep wolf I think. Which would be played completely differently based on player.

[Tyler Glembo]

An ideal role blocker should be deep wolf I think. Which would be played completely differently based on player.

 

I dont' know what you mean when you say deep wolf.

[csarmi]

I mean someone who don't get caught. Plays super townie, super convincingly.

[Tommyrod]

Well wolf RB absolutely needs to stay alive today so I think someone totally quiet like TG or Dice or Drunk makes sense and someone who is angry about being suspected and trying to stay alive like Yates makes sense.

[keyholder21]

Have to split these up.

 

W/e just gonna ignore Csarmi for now and go back to the other stuff I wanted to cover earlier tonight

So you’re going to ignore an argument with CS, but then go back into an argument regarding Me/Yates - why? How does this make sense? Wouldn't it make more sense to get information from him while he's around? I think AJ & Tommy have us covered pretty well.

[keyholder21]

 

 

Pretend we are not even here. That's what a villager would do naturally and I feel ridiculous even saying this because it's so basic.

In order for ANYTHING I say to have any weight I have to unburden the slot of this:

Bottom line is now you're in a bad position because BOTH of the players you argued against killing yesterday have flipped scum.

Clearing ^^^this^^^ up is what a VILLAGER would do. And that's what I thought I did.

 

Then you cock blocked when I actually tried to start solving the game with your unwillingness to be helpful. And it has subsequently devolved back into me fighting uphill out of a corner again.

 

If you're town and in a bad spot, you do NOT need to "resolve" the suspicion on your slot first and foremost, that's just selfish play.

 

You try and defend yourself the best you can, but more importantly put in #work to get out your thoughts about the rest of the player field that way should you be lynched town will at least be able to see your suspicions and thoughts were genuine.

 

Instead, Yates and Key both seem to be fighting to survive, not to help town.

 

This is BS, des. Any player, regardless of alignment, is going to try and defend themselves. NO ONE would just leave an argument about why they are scum out there and just let it sit in the thread. People want to clear their name.

 

Also, how is it selfish play to try and clear your name if you are town and don’t want to get mislynched?

 

About this #work that you and AJ keep mentioning. What do you think I was doing all day 1? I was trying to solve the game. Also, let’s not forget these posts by Yates in the middle of trying to defend us D2

 

 

 

Hey Des - what were your thoughts on Krak wrt Lenlo?

 

Hey Krak - I'll get there eventually but what got you on the Lenlo wagon?

 

 

 

Any suggestions on who I should cop tonight?

Someone you find scummy off the wagon. Leave it at that.

 

As I read through... Darthe and BFG are feeling like good options for potential scum that refuse to post.

 

 

 

 

 

Yates why did you immediately ask me about scum off the wagon instead of scum on the wagon when I was just saying some scum likely bused

I think we cross posted. I didn't see your post until after mine. Even if I had, it wouldn't change *my* position. Typically, I'm looking for scum off the wagon on a successful day 1 scum lynch. The fact that Lenlo really didn't have any pressure or content posts - thus no "excuse" for any real/legit case for a scum busser to hide behind - reinforces my resolve in this. Do you disagree?

 

This post, for instance, is bad and possibly an attempt at redirecting focus.

 

You realize we are off the wagon, right? So I don't see how I would have been "redirecting focus" from your perspective.

 

Also, go look at how I treated the Hoof wagon in Dr. Who [my most recent game]. Specifically, look at this post and this post. Yeah. Finding scum off the Day 1 wagon is sort of "my thing."

 

/Yates

 

 

 

Another post trying to derail the scumhunt imo. Look at the six names he lists as being "wrong" about Lenlo- several of those were not townreading Lenlo in like any way.

 

...

 

It feels like Yates just friggin pulled a bunch of names out of a hat

And again, I disagree. I'm trying to FOCUS the scumhunt. Because, you know, I have more legit reasons for suspecting scum off the scum wagon than I do for suspecting bussing scum at this point.

 

Also, are you actually joking with the "pulling names out of a hat" comment? You realize that was the list of people that were not on the Lenlo wagon, right? Another way of phrasing that would be a list of people "off the scum lynch wagon." The same people that I said needed to be looked at more closely because there would be scum in that list. Not sure how this logic is escaping you.

 

 

 

Another potential "redirect focus" post, although I will say Krak isn't resolved yet and I guess I could see Yates legitimately suspecting him as town (Krak did offer minimal resistance to the Lenlo train at first)

Actually, I was going to ask you about Tommy, too, but I feel like that slot is going to self resolve. As of post 766 [i'm a few pages past that at this point] these were the only two people commenting on Len. At that point, Len hadn't been posting, then came in a plopped a couple of lulz posts before leaving. I was planning on pointing out that you were being inconsistent in your application of "scumminess" due to people who initially either Town read Lenlo or thought he wasn't worth a vote for simply being a lurker. And this all ties nicely into why Key was questioning Hally on how she got onto the Lenlo wagon in the first place.

 

Again, the journey is more important than the destination at times. And you know this.

 

 

 

 

So BFG was WTL Len but never says why?

Because of the contradiction between his words and actions. There wasn't anything to say that others hadn't.

 

How is it that you happen to find yourself posting immediately after a flip? Is this your normal posting time?

 

 

 

BFG and Kates thunderdome seems like a good plan. Both are on the table for today. The more you post the better for everyone.

I reject your suggestion of a false dichotomy. BFG could be scum. But there isn't enough info to base a real read off of.

 

 

 

@kates quote to show me how i was wrong on lenlo please.

Ohhhh.... Same problem as Des, apparently. That was the list of people off the Lenlo wagon. That's it. Read the whole post in context and it will make more sense.

 

 

 

I even called it a huge assumption on your part Yates when you brought it up. You should have no way of knowing if Darthe was still affected by the Avengers game - tbh it never even crossed my mind.

Ah. Post 1243. I pretty much forgot about that after 1368. Again, that post wasn't actually about Darthe but how you arrived at what we perceived as a lurker lynch candidate. I felt like 1368 was better than "because lurker" and moved on.

 

 

 

Yates do us a fav and focus a bit on Krak during your read through.

 

I want some more thoughts on him from a new perspective.

 

Thanks.

This is my only note so far:

Krak was resistant to the Lenlo wagon right around post 766

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/90...age-39?do=findComment&comment=3329153

 

Possible panic as to why someone voted a buddy? Or just confused about a lurker vote?

 

 

@Tommy - What ever happened with this?

I can see Lenlo and Salami as a scumteam based on their interactions.

 

 

 

Yates throughout the day. Then, when I had time I added some (under my own name because mobile).

[Tyler Glembo]

Well wolf RB absolutely needs to stay alive today so I think someone totally quiet like TG or Dice or Drunk makes sense and someone who is angry about being suspected and trying to stay alive like Yates makes sense.

 

No result is likely an RB.  So focus on Dice, Drunk, Yates?  Why do you say Yates go angry?

[keyholder21]

Gr.

 

get out your thoughts about the rest of the player field that way should you be lynched town will at least be able to see your suspicions and thoughts were genuine.

How do our thoughts on the rest of the player field affect the genuine-ness of our suspicions and thoughts after our flip?

 

Thing is Key you're more appealing to AJ (and others by proxy) to give you the benefit of the doubt and read you as town... just because.

 

That's... not how it works tho. You want people to see it from your perspective? Well they're not always gonna. If they don't trust you, they're not going to automatically give you the benefit of the doubt, not when the game is on the line.

 

SO. If you ARE town, please stop being so focused on yourself and get out thoughts about others in and put in actual #work.

 

And yeah the italics are an example of the wifomy type defense I was referring to up top btw.

Why can’t it work that way? Because you don’t want it to? There is OBVIOUS reason on thread as to why you should look at it in that I’m scum. I admit that, pretty sure Yates admitted that. It looks bad. So, what is so hard or so bad about looking at it from another point of view?

 

Please don’t patronize me with the “well they’re not always gonna” line. I know that. I’ve played mafia before and so has Yates.

 

Regarding #work, please see above.

 

This looks like you are attempting to appear protown for when we flip, because you know how we will flip.

 

As far as WIFOM, as you well know, in mafia it’s generally the simplest answer. Which makes more sense:

 

1. That we are town and Hallia was killed to make us look bad AND get a town PR in a 3-for-1 deal (Hallia death, mislynch of us, and then another [probable] death the next night)?

 

OR

 

2. That we are scum and decided to kill Hallia to make the argument that we would never do that as scum. Because this argument works out so well all the time.

Yes, it’s WIFOM. Practically ANYTHING we say at this point looks like WIFOM because of the scumread that Tommy/AJ/you have on us. AJ has even said that we HAVE to die now at some point because of being “linked” to two mafia flips.

 

 

 

I think I am going to save the bulk of my thoughts for when night ends but in short I find claims so far to be legit (maybe sans that bodyguard claim, but the Len flip makes that a bit cleaner barring heavy scum PR), Tommy imo is a bit muddled this game but it's Tommy who I can't really read to be fair. Des looks sincere but his arguments with Tommy, Arsis, Salami, Kates etc are a lot of conflict that's fairly unnecessary thus far in the game. I also think that Kates/Salami are off. It's a total gut thing but if I die look into them (probably as a lategame tinfoil) and in the short run trust

 

Des

Krak

TG

Tommy/Hally?

I agree that someone on his 'trust' list is probably scum. I haven't reread either, but going based on what darthe said above, my money is on des. 'He sounds sincere but his arguments (with half the game) are innecessary'. Looks like hedging. He's also been extremely quiet since Len lynch was proposed and even more so since Yates/me started taking the brunt of accusation.

 

 

So you want us to do #work and look into things and then just when we do. Yeah, that’s helpful and encouraging.

 

I just wanted you to possibly look at things a different way for a second.

 

I wanted to avoid a mislynch of a townie who got unlucky because she/they didn’t want to lynch inactives. I have NEVER seen lynching inactives turn out like that. I’m not a tonereader – I’ve never claimed to be and have said on several occasions that I just don’t get that/have that talent. Bravo (seriously) for those of you that do, but I don’t. So, I need to see more play from people before I can make a call on their alignment.

 

It’s not doing any good, so I just wanted to say my peace and I’m done talking about it now. Maybe Yates will when he comes back, if we are still here.

 

I am running to a meeting. I'll be back after to give my reads list.

[Tommyrod]

Key: Why of you both keep talking about your record do far?! I don't care! Move forward! Discuss the current state of the game! For example tell me who makes sense as a wolf Roleblocker based on behavior

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Well wolf RB absolutely needs to stay alive today so I think someone totally quiet like TG or Dice or Drunk makes sense and someone who is angry about being suspected and trying to stay alive like Yates makes sense.

No result is likely an RB. So focus on Dice, Drunk, Yates? Why do you say Yates go angry?

What are you joking? 90% of Kates posts are self defense. It's happening right now lol.

[Tommyrod]

AJ is arguably the clearest player in the game since he is un-CC'd vig that shot scum. I'm an un-CC'd cop that led a scum lynch D1. It's confirmed there's a cop because there's a deputy.

 

Hello?? If we are both pushing you then maybe the problem isn't us.

[keyholder21]

Key: Why of you both keep talking about your record do far?! I don't care! Move forward! Discuss the current state of the game! For example tell me who makes sense as a wolf Roleblocker based on behavior

Because, it's aggravating when people don't see things your way. Don't you ever feel that way?

 

 

Deep wolf makes way more sense to me. Someone who doesn't have much thread presence and are using all the arguments (you&des, us&you/AJ) to stay "safe". Will provide more thoughts when I come back.

[Tommyrod]

Okay.

[csarmi]

AJ is arguably the clearest player in the game since he is un-CC'd vig that shot scum. I'm an un-CC'd cop that led a scum lynch D1. It's confirmed there's a cop because there's a deputy.

 

Hello?? If we are both pushing you then maybe the problem isn't us.

Even better. Hally clearly stated you were the cop.