[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

@NotBob - Suppose I am mafia.  Who would you suspect would be mafia with me? 

 

i need to re- read...

[Myndrunner]

 

@NotBob - Suppose I am mafia.  Who would you suspect would be mafia with me? 

 

i need to re- read...

 

 

Still?

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

@NotBob - Suppose I am mafia.  Who would you suspect would be mafia with me? 

 

i need to re- read...

 

 

Still?

 

 

yes, i re-read yesterday with the mindset that I was wrong on Tommy...if I eliminate that option i'd lean toward you...this was before TG was NKd...then you articulate the same message i used yesterday...convenient...makes me leery

 

still don't like how DT went down...and you managed to avoid the action altogether...almost like you knew Darthe was blocked.

[Myndrunner]

 

 

 

@NotBob - Suppose I am mafia.  Who would you suspect would be mafia with me? 

 

i need to re- read...

 

 

Still?

 

 

yes, i re-read yesterday with the mindset that I was wrong on Tommy...if I eliminate that option i'd lean toward you...this was before TG was NKd...then you articulate the same message i used yesterday...convenient...makes me leery

 

still don't like how DT went down...and you managed to avoid the action altogether...almost like you knew Darthe was blocked.

 

 

I was playing follow the cop.  I also don't like how DT went down.  We could face a similar situation here. 

 

Do you still feel scum on Tommy or have you changed your mind?  What about Clov?

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

 

 

@NotBob - Suppose I am mafia.  Who would you suspect would be mafia with me? 

 

i need to re- read...

 

 

Still?

 

 

yes, i re-read yesterday with the mindset that I was wrong on Tommy...if I eliminate that option i'd lean toward you...this was before TG was NKd...then you articulate the same message i used yesterday...convenient...makes me leery

 

still don't like how DT went down...and you managed to avoid the action altogether...almost like you knew Darthe was blocked.

 

 

I was playing follow the cop.  I also don't like how DT went down.  We could face a similar situation here. 

 

Do you still feel scum on Tommy or have you changed your mind?  What about Clov?

 

 

I'm almost convinced its both of them.  I won't vote either until our Cop does.

[Tommyrod]

Blowing my mind a little bit just how much weight people are giving to the xpost DT hammer. It can't be just scum pushing the issue because too many of you are bringing it up. Not that you should believe me, but the probability I make that move with my scumbro when neither of us is clear and DT was highly likely to be lynched regardless is exactly zero. I like to have fun as scum, but that's TOO blatant and blows cover too severely. Phyrric victories aren't my style.

 

Mynd, there's no reason to no lynch today. With doc dead, the only player in this setup who would be dying tonight is Darthe, the only ~confirmed townie. You're advocating for us to go into F5 without the advantage of a known pro-town voice. Your "the only thing that matters in mafia votes" comment is being hugely results oriented; mafia isn't black and white, as much as Darthe dislikes to admit it. Motivation and justification, rather than results, should be your focus. And right now I'm wondering -- what's your motivation in suggesting we go to LyLo without a confirmed townie?

[RandA lThor]

 

Notably this is lylo.  You have to vote with me if you are town so whenever I put a vote down I want town to pile on it.  If anyone else puts a vote down they are in essence revealing themselves as mafia today.  

 

I'm with you on this.   I still feel very comfortable with my vote on Tommy at the moment, but I'm sure you know that I can change should something catch my eye.  I hope I haven't been giving off mixed signals but that bandwagon on Drunk Tank the other day still bothers me.

 

Just another point about my earlier reaction test on TG.  I don't like how Tommy white knighted my points about TG only to back-track on him right about the time that TG was talking about the doc stuff.  An experienced player like Tommy would know when someone is trying to play a trick on the mafia, so I'm sure he picked up on it. 

 

Still, when you really boil down to it, the true proof in mafia is how the votes go down.  Am I right?

 

What's with all the italics?

 

I'm with you, I can change, signals, me.

 

All of that sounds like a symp... which you were talking about before... but can't be in a basic game?  WTF.

 

Rand, how do you feel about voting Clov right about now? You follow my meaning?

I don't get what you're saying... but I do want to vote Clov for the following.

 

 

NotBob reads now.

 

Still don't like hammer...so Tommy and Clov

 

Don't like Mynd's play...could vote him...his case is exactly what I'd expect from scum to get me to vote with him.

 

My plan is to play follow the Cop except when votes me.  lol

 

I'm pretty sure everyone here has fosed Clov at some point.  2 possibilities.

 

1. Both mafia think that Clov has been acting scummy, and put him on their list.

 

2. Clov is the scum teammate that the other mafia is fine kinda bussing.

 

I'm more for the second option, because I doubt that the mafia at this point wouldn't put one of their teammates on the list.  Everyone's FoSes are basically focused on four people right now, two town and two mafia.  If Clov isn't mafia, and #1 is happening, then that means either Mynd and NotBob are a team (which I doubt because that would mean they're both fosing Clov and Tommy, which would mean they're coming out as a mafia team against the only two townies.  Way risky), or Mynd and Tommy are a team (this is more likely because Mynd is voting Tommy, perhaps distancing,  (perhaps if he is a symp, Tommy is his mafia), but Tommy didn't vote for Mynd, but still this is plausible.  Or the last situation is Tommy and NotBob and that has got to require some hardcore distancing, don't believe thats it, because I feel Tommy is actually pissed.

 

So that leaves us with the following.

Clov is most likely mafia, if he's not, then Mynd and Tommy is probably the mafia team.

 

Now the question is if Clov is mafia, who's his partner?

 

The answer: I don't care until tomorrow.  Right now, it could be any of them, they were all kinda bussing him.

 

Another thing against Clov, everyone has FoSed him, but the vote that Mynd put down was on Tommy, not Clov.  Tommy says NotBob is his top candidate, and Clov is his second.  Idk about NotBob on who he doesn't like more, but judging from his Tommy reactions, I'm guessing Clov's second on his list.  When Clov is second on almost all lists, that's kind of a bussing sign happening right there.

 

So tl;dr summary

 

Mynd you symp?

 

Clov prob scummy.

 

if I'm wrong about Clov (we'll lose if we lynch him, but just for analysis purposes) team is probably Mynd + Tommy.

 

Clov's teammate could be anyone.

 

The above mixed with pure probability after the above has been put into consideration shows the next towniest person to be... NotBob.  Who knew?  He hasn't played the towniest, but by probabilty, he is the most townie.

 

For these reasons Darthe, I suggest that we move onto Clov today.

[Tommyrod]

I also find your "Tommy is trying to play us against each other, TG!" line that you've repeated opportunistic. Trying to discern whether your eventual truce could possibly have been w/w isn't scummy, but boiling an entire game down to two actions as justification to lynch me, arguably the only player who has some spew going for him, IS.

 

Your main bullet points for lynching me appear to be:

-I'm not acting like myself

-I hammered DT

-I tried to pit you and TG against each other

 

All of which are the black and white interpretation of mafia that isn't acceptable. The first point that I'm being objective as a scum strategy isn't valid, and I invited you to read both a town and scum game of mine from the last week to confirm if you were truly curious. You didn't. The second point was a coincidence, perhaps a difficult to believe coincidence, but a coincidence nonetheless. It should be treated as null if you aim to read me objectively. The last point ties into the first and second, which is a question of "how transparently scummy do you believe I am as scum, exactly?" It's difficult to buy that you would say "Tommy, you've played a magnificent scum game, and made all the right moves. Now die!" rather than "that guy who can't even match his socks in this game is a decent scum candidate, yeah."

 

Your current conversation with NB is bizarre because it's the first time I recall you guys interacting for more than one post. I can't help but notice he vanished after being asked by TG for reads and then appeared the minute Darthe voted for him and you've been trying to work things out together since. If anything, it makes me think YOU are scum and NB is town, which would be a real mindfrack.

 

If you're scum, the above is part of why.

[Tommyrod]

Nice crosspost Rand. I'll make things easy for you: there's no Tommy/Anyone scumteam.

 

I see the possibilities as NB/Clov

 

Mynd/Clov

 

NB/Mynd

 

Top feels most likely to me by merit of synchronization; Mynd/Clov possible if Mynd is scum I think he just spewed NB town as I mentioned above, and Clov cased Mynd HARD yesterday but then never discussed it again, nor did Mynd address it until I pointed it out; and NB/Mynd is possible by merit of them rarely or never talking to each other yet Mynd is apparently very willing to work things out with NB today despite NB being the scummiest player in the thread by miles; if Mynd was scum and NB wasn't he could just agree to lynch him.

 

So in short, you all suck. If we can find the one townie in Mynd/Clov/NB and not lynch him, I think we got this.

[Tommyrod]

The thing that makes me angriest about this game, other than being openly trolled, is the blatant disrespect my scum game is getting from people who think my mafia M.O. is to be scummy and make blatant scum-outing moves like an unnecessary coordinated hammer.

 

Even if you haven't played with me before, people who have know. Listen to Darthe.

[Tommyrod]

(Listen to Darthe? Cold day in hell.)

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

I also find your "Tommy is trying to play us against each other, TG!" line that you've repeated opportunistic. Trying to discern whether your eventual truce could possibly have been w/w isn't scummy, but boiling an entire game down to two actions as justification to lynch me, arguably the only player who has some spew going for him, IS.

 

Your main bullet points for lynching me appear to be:

-I'm not acting like myself

-I hammered DT

-I tried to pit you and TG against each other

 

All of which are the black and white interpretation of mafia that isn't acceptable. The first point that I'm being objective as a scum strategy isn't valid, and I invited you to read both a town and scum game of mine from the last week to confirm if you were truly curious. You didn't. The second point was a coincidence, perhaps a difficult to believe coincidence, but a coincidence nonetheless. It should be treated as null if you aim to read me objectively. The last point ties into the first and second, which is a question of "how transparently scummy do you believe I am as scum, exactly?" It's difficult to buy that you would say "Tommy, you've played a magnificent scum game, and made all the right moves. Now die!" rather than "that guy who can't even match his socks in this game is a decent scum candidate, yeah."

 

Your current conversation with NB is bizarre because it's the first time I recall you guys interacting for more than one post. I can't help but notice he vanished after being asked by TG for reads and then appeared the minute Darthe voted for him and you've been trying to work things out together since. If anything, it makes me think YOU are scum and NB is town, which would be a real mindfrack.

 

If you're scum, the above is part of why.

 

Typically, i do not give reads during the night phase.  Just adds wiifom that scum can use.  plus i had been tracking with TG since his day 1 fisticuffs with mynd

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

Nice crosspost Rand. I'll make things easy for you: there's no Tommy/Anyone scumteam.

 

I see the possibilities as NB/Clov

 

Mynd/Clov

 

NB/Mynd

 

Top feels most likely to me by merit of synchronization; Mynd/Clov possible if Mynd is scum I think he just spewed NB town as I mentioned above, and Clov cased Mynd HARD yesterday but then never discussed it again, nor did Mynd address it until I pointed it out; and NB/Mynd is possible by merit of them rarely or never talking to each other yet Mynd is apparently very willing to work things out with NB today despite NB being the scummiest player in the thread by miles; if Mynd was scum and NB wasn't he could just agree to lynch him.

 

So in short, you all suck. If we can find the one townie in Mynd/Clov/NB and not lynch him, I think we got this.

 

Actually I'm starting to agree with Tommy here.  Mynd and Clov most likely at this point.  I'll wait for Darthe.  Although I'm not sure you can convince him I'm not scum.

[Myndrunner]

Rand, if you place your vote on Clov, I have mine on Tommy, and Darthe has his on Not Bob......we have ourselves in a similar situation as we did on D1.  Do you understand what I am saying here?  The scum need two town votes on one townie in order to successfully hammer.  They know this and we know this.  You could vote me or Clov, but as long as you/me/darthe spread our votes out, it forces the mafia to make a decision.  They are waiting for two votes to land on a player right now. 

[RandA lThor]

The thing that makes me angriest about this game, other than being openly trolled, is the blatant disrespect my scum game is getting from people who think my mafia M.O. is to be scummy and make blatant scum-outing moves like an unnecessary coordinated hammer.

 

Even if you haven't played with me before, people who have know. Listen to Darthe.

IF you were scum, this is what I would think of this post.

 

Honest exasperation at being called scum for the wrong reason.

 

however, I don't believe you did this either, so the Tommy/Clov team is less likely.  If that's combined with the post above, here's my new and updated scum to town list.

 

Clov

Mynd

Tommy

NotBob Wait for the Tommy post getting mad that NotBob is my top town read besides Darthe. :P

 

Mynd I still want an answer on what looked like a symp hint on steroids.

[RandA lThor]

@Mynd, I'm waiting for Darthe to see if he'll agree with me that NotBob is town.

[Myndrunner]

It wasn't a symp hint. I was trying to let Darthe know that I will change my vote when he signals me to do so.  I felt like Darthe was trying to reaction test to see who was going to pile on NotBob, but I also figured that no one still in this game is dumb enough to do that.

 

I think we need to spread our votes around.  The moment any two of us townies vote together on a non-scum, then the mafia will dogpile and its game over.

[Myndrunner]

@Mynd, I'm waiting for Darthe to see if he'll agree with me that NotBob is town.

 

Darthe....the guy who voted NotBob.......would think he's town?  Please explain. 

[RandA lThor]

It wasn't a symp hint. I was trying to let Darthe know that I will change my vote when he signals me to do so.  I felt like Darthe was trying to reaction test to see who was going to pile on NotBob, but I also figured that no one still in this game is dumb enough to do that.

 

I think we need to spread our votes around.  The moment any two of us townies vote together on a non-scum, then the mafia will dogpile and its game over.

Or we could just not vote. :P

 

 

@Mynd, I'm waiting for Darthe to see if he'll agree with me that NotBob is town.

 

Darthe....the guy who voted NotBob.......would think he's town?  Please explain. 

 

He reads my case, congrats me on my amazing deduction skills, and changes his mind. :P Worth a shot.

[Myndrunner]

Notice how everytime we bring up the DrunkTank dogpile, Tommy gets fussy?  It's almost like he is mad at himself for doing it in the first place.  In an otherwise flawless game, that may be the one thing that does him in and he knows it. 

 

I'm leaning on a Tommy/Clov team with NotBob swappable in either slot. 

[RandA lThor]

 

I'm almost convinced its both of them.  I won't vote either until our Cop does.

 

 

Actually I'm starting to agree with Tommy here.  Mynd and Clov most likely at this point.  I'll wait for Darthe.  Although I'm not sure you can convince him I'm not scum.

 

Quotes cut down for brevity, but that was a fast switch lol.  This I think is one of your worst posts.  Near the end game, mafia becomes very malleable to changing their reads as long as they can get a lynch secured on a townie.  The fact that you switch from Tommy to Mynd secures this idea.  If you are scum, so is Clov.

 

So if NotBob is scum, so is Clov.

 

If Clov isn't scum, Tommy and Mynd are.

 

If Clov is scum, Tommy isn't.

 

If Tommy is scum, Clov isn't, NotBob isn't (frustration between the two), so that means Mynd is.

 

So possible teams are

 

NB/Clov

 

Mynd/Clov

 

Mynd/Tommy

 

Wow, I did not expect it to be that short and clean. :P

[RandA lThor]

Clov and Mynd have a 2/3 chance of being scum.  Tommy and NB have a 1/3 chance of being scum.

 

Between Clov and Mynd, Mynd has played scummier, so I advocate for Clov again.

 

If Clov is mafia, 50/50 for Mynd or NotBob.

 

So in this new list my probability logic/scumhunting gives me from scum to town

 

Clov

Mynd

NotBob

Tommy

 

My gut and pure scumhunting list goes

 

Clov

Mynd

Tommy

NotBob

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

^^^^Trust you gut^^^^

[RandA lThor]

lol NB

[Myndrunner]

Fair enough, I can't deny that my game hasn't been perfect, but it never is.  I am not sure how you see my current game as scummy, especially since I recall being your strongest town read for quite a while.  What changed?

 

Do you also see what I am getting at about the votes?  I'm sure by now the mafia see it.  Darthe is well aware of it, I'm sure. 

 

I have more to say about the symp thing in a bit as soon as I can find the quote, but did anyone notice the soft press by Tommy on that with me? It was as if he was soft fishing to see if I was a symp without totally calling me out on it. 
 

Symps know who the mafia are, but the mafia wouldn't know who their symp was unless they outed in some way.  Is it possible that Tommy was trying to see if I was the symp with him?