Quality Discussion Thread

[amolcomments]

Its more than obvious that your assumptions about me and my interpretation abilities are about as far off the mark as 12 noon would be from 12 midnight.

 

Can you demonstrate that Fain had a more than comparatively minor role in the entire Wheel of Time series when Fain is compared to those characters with whom I compared him?

 

Before we derail entirely into a cliched internet fight and start talking about how great you are in rl - I don't need to explore your abilities because they're visible to all who read your posts. The fact that you can't understand clear hyperbole when its being banged over your head is just the plainest example of it.

 

re: fain - I feel like I have to frame each argument with tons of very detailed explanations so you don't go off on a tangent. My criticism of your comment was you were re-framing your opinion as the objective viewpoint, after spending countless posts railing against others for doing what you perceived to be the same.

 

My thoughts on Fain:

 

He's the catalyst for a lot of important events - he sets Rand on the path to declaring himself the dragon, Mat to being the (erstwhile) hornsounder, Perrin becoming the leader of men.

 

He's the wild card, chaos in this very ordered light vs dark setting of the wot. Which makes his contribution to the picture unpredictable and far from the whimper it turned out to be. You could think of him as loki in the odin/tyr/thor analogy - who had a pretty significant role to play in the last battle.

 

Most relevant - Fain's wound on Rand acts like a counterpoint to the wound Ishamael gives him. The taint on saidin - the dark one's touch - is funnelled into shadar logoth and destroyed; Rand's inspiration seeing how the two injuries fight against each other. It seems the smallest of leaps to imagine something similar playing out in the final confrontation. And even as I explore that line of thought it sort of rubbishes the patternfight idea the DO is the source of all evil (even if that idea wasn't rubbish already). Ah well.

 

As Ares also pointed out Fain was another example Sanderson writing himself into a hole and then putting a clumsy patch over it - the buildup of Fain was his own writing.

[Rand the Plumber]

As Ares also pointed out Fain was another example Sanderson writing himself into a hole and then putting a clumsy patch over it - the buildup of Fain was his own writing.

 

The point about Fain is well-made.    From a story perspective, Fain being treated to an ignominious and unfair death is delicious.  Rar for that.  The problem, to my eyes anyway, is that the Fain denouement appears to be - from a writing perspective - an afterthought.  He is portrayed as being augmented since last we saw him - he has a new name and everything!  And yet all of his mystery falls flat because of the peremptoriness of his dispatch.  I'm not sure how I feel about Mat being immune from Mashadar.  I think that I don't like it, but I'm not sure.  The saddest part for me is, having just finished re-reading (a feat which I had to force to completion), I have no desire to pick the book up again and read it for a third time.  Perhaps in a few months or years.

 

Two pages to deal with Fain?  Fine, serves him right.  Just not those two pages.

[wRAR]

Well, BS said "I might have done more with Fain if I'd had the time and the pages."

[jjp]

Yeah, you'd have to cut into Androl saving the world.

[Suttree]

Yeah, you'd have to cut into Androl saving the world.

Or lose some of the endless trolloc "battle porn". Totally out of the question. Just wouldn't be the same story. ;)

[Mats Spare Hat]

Hey, HEY

 

It was CRUCIAL that we absolutely positively after all this TIME knew for certain that Aviendha, can be SNEAKY and can SLINK into Elayne's TENT...using STEALTH.

*gasps from crowd

I know, I know I took lessons...You see what I did there? Added things in all caps, and incorporated the most basic alliteration learned in grade school. Geez I just wish I could have worked in some italics too. You know, for emphasis.

*stares up into the sky
 

[Vambram]

Well, I shall say this once more, and let the critics continue to use insults against me because I really don't care what the critics think about me. However, I say and I know that I had absolutely no problems at all following the timelines in The Gathering Storm, The Towers of Midnight, and A Memory of Light.

 

I had no major criticisms of any one of those three books. There are a few, very small nit picking details, such as "Red Lion of Andor" (which occurred what? once or twice?) and there were some problems with grammar and word choices.

 

However, take all of those small problems and put them in perspective of a 1800 pages plus for the final three books of the series, and I say that those problems are relatively minor and take nothing away from my enjoyment of 3 very good books. 

 

I know that what I say is not going to change the minds of anyone who has insulted me, and frankly, I don't care if I change your mind or not. But, I shall continue to be steadfast in my appreciation for Brandon Sanderson, Harriet, Team Jordan, and Tor Publishing for TGS, TOM, and AMOL because those final 3 books brought an epic ending to the greatest series of fantasy novels ever written.  Oh, and just in case anyone has a problem determining whether or not I'm being subjective or objective, then let me put that potential confusing thought to rest, if you don't mind.

 

I am being subjective, instead of objective, with my enjoyment of the Wheel of Time series, including the final 3 books. Also, I shall continue to keep on doing re-reads of the entire series at least once every other year for many, many more years to come.

[Suttree]

Ok, some of this is getting pointless.

 

This is not a debate over who enjoyed the book or who didn't.

 

It is a thread to discuss the quality of the writing, plot, characters etc...

[NitroS]

Lol circle jerk

 

The thing is Robert jordan dragged out the middle books too much and he expected to finish the series with 1 book after KOD. Really? he wanted the last battle, white tower egwene amyrlin arc, rand becoming super rand, mat rescuing moiraine, Nyneave testing aes sedai, lan to tarwins gap and the last battle and battle at shaoul ghul? lol i dont get how he thought it was going to be 1 book still after writing alot of scenes for the last book. If we had got more information about the black tower and what logain was upto in later books instead of getting the COT stories of malfayne testing elaynes urine and her succession going on for endless pages and things like perrin crying about faile being trapped and sitting around.

 

If you compare Brandon's dragging and filler in the last 3 books compared to the series as a whole you will find brandon done alot less filler then robert jordan (id rather read "trolloc porn" (you creep me out get a better term) then things like the bowl of winds arc, elayne and nyneave jumping around at the menagire(sp) Elaynes succession etc.

 

I do agree however that aMOL should have closed off better since it was such a long series but we couldnt get a better closed off ending since harriet wanted RJ words to be the last in the book so what was in his epilogue nothing could be revealed after it so that left very limited room for adding what happens after and im glad brandon put in the tidbit about cadsuane becoming amyrlin.

[Cybertrolloc]

You can read his blog posts here, it's nowhere near what he said. That's aside from him doing half the Egwere story in 1/3 the space BS used in tGS :)

 

Yes, the series ran away from him, but not in that way. There were real life problems as well as writing problems that meant a tSR every 18 months wasn't going to happen and so forth. How to get the series into a stronger set of books (and whether that's really possible) is a common discussion here.

 

---

 

WoT the greatest fantasy series of all time...I'm not even sure where to begin on that laughable claim.

[Suttree]

Ares and I basically carpet bomb a couple of your posts and this how you respond? Just ignore almost everything that has come before and move the goal posts yet again. I mean I guess it's logical given how that went for you but wow.

Also continuing to make things up and have issues with comprehension I see . The phrase I wrote is "battle porn". It's common in fantasy when discussing "hack-n-slash" novels and has been used numerous times in various threads by posters discussing the repetitive video game esque feel of the battles in AMoL. Trying to turn it into some crude peevish attack is rather odd. Trolloc porn?!   I'm creeping you out?! *chuckle*

As for space it is clearly evident that the books shouldn't have been split into three(as Brandon argued). 1 book into two volumes would have been sufficient and I certainly hope you aren't suggesting space was used in an efficient manner. RJ could convey a large amount of info in a short amount of time when needed. Brandon's "tell don't show" style and seeming Inability to use literary devices like ellipsis to advance the action squander a ton of space. In regards to filler, as I've said many times CoT could have used with a more stringent editor. The difference being the quality of writing under RJ never dropped to almost draft status though and there are hints and foreshadowing sprinkled throughout. If you cut things it would require a massive rewrite. With Brandon's filler you could quite literally cut away whole sections and not lose a single thing. Additionally you are still talking about preference. You list certain story lines as filler just because you don't seem to like them.

Bottom line however this thread is for the discussion of the quality of AMoL. If the only thing you can do in addressing the issues is try and spin the focus on to RJ's work with feeble excuses that have zero bearing on the situation you really aren't adding that much to the discussion.

[NitroS]

WoT the greatest fantasy series of all time...I'm not even sure where to begin on that laughable claim.

I agree with you but saying the series is the best of all time and saying its laughable to think otherwise just tells everyone that what ever you think has to be right. Which makes you fit in with a few of the above posters ;)

 

If you took a poll with WOT, ASOIAF and LOTR i guarantee you WOT would come last on which is the greatest fantasy series.

 

 

 

The

point of my post was that people are so emotionally invested in this

series that they are finding problems for the sake of finding problems

in regards to the plot.  

As far as the writing quality, I think the same idea applies.

100%.

[Suttree]

 

 

The

point of my post was that people are so emotionally invested in this

series that they are finding problems for the sake of finding problems

in regards to the plot.  

As far as the writing quality, I think the same idea applies.

100%.

And yet the problems need to exist in order for people to find them. Don't understand why a few people are so upset they are getting pointed out. I mean are people mad that the issues are being called to light because they are unable to not notice them now? That is an ignorance is bliss approach to the situation. As Luckers said:

 

You're arguing that ignorance is bliss. You acknowledge that the flaws are there, but before someone pointed them out to you, you did not see them, and that you preferred it that way--in which case what are you doing on a forum for the purpose of discussing these books? Presumably to exchange insights and ideas, appreciations and dislikes, all of which are the enemies of blissful ignorance.

 

People act as if the critique is some form of "hate" or "attack", as if we are pulling bricks out of the WoT wall when we are merely pointing out that they were missing to begin with. Putting on blinders and ignoring the holes does not do a young author any good. There is no higher compliment you can pay a writer than a careful study of his work. One usually has to be passionate on the topic in the first place to do so such a thing. I often wonder whether the kid glove treatment he initially received has hampered his long term growth. We know he has grand aspirations and is very ambitious in terms of where he wants to be career wise. In order for him to get there people need to offer unflinching analysis. To quote Logen Ninefingers: "You have to be realistic about these things."

[Vambram]

What I believe is that the criticisms are making mountains out of molehills. The small problems within the last 3 books of the Wheel of Time series are hugely outweighed when put into comparison with everything that is very good in TGS, TOM, and AMOL. These are all subjective opinions, and I believe that my opinions are shared by the vast majority of readers who have read these books and also written reviews online in such places like Amazon.com

 

So, the critics can keep on harping on what they did not like. But, on the other hand, I won't do that because I'm simply not that kind of man.

[NitroS]

What I believe is that the criticisms are making mountains out of molehills. The small problems within the last 3 books of the Wheel of Time series are hugely outweighed when put into comparison with everything that is very good in TGS, TOM, and AMOL. These are all subjective opinions, and I believe that my opinions are shared by the vast majority of readers who have read these books and also written reviews online in such places like Amazon.com

 

So, the critics can keep on harping on what they did not like. But, on the other hand, I won't do that because I'm simply not that kind of man.

This. People harp on the small problems so much that quality discussion of the plot and everything instantly gets side tracked by things like, "he quoted 1 word differently 6 books ago lets stop the discussion about the intriguing and interesting place of shara and question why that word was different". You notice this in every thread titled someones arc, they all get derailed from people talking and discussing the major plot to minor little details that arent right which make these forums into a battle of either dissing brandon sandersons minor subjective mistakes in his work or defending it. Look at the demandred thread for instance instead of a quality discussion of shara and his role in the Last battle it is literally 23 pages full of debate over minor continuity errors of a characters persona that are subjective and can all be explained but the fact they arent explained in the books previously (which was intended to keep the suprise effect) makes certain forum goers feel the need to literally derail every type of plot discussion.

[Suttree]

What I believe is that the criticisms are making mountains out of molehills. The small problems within the last 3 books of the Wheel of Time series are hugely outweighed when put into comparison with everything that is very good in TGS, TOM, and AMOL.

So what would be helpful then in a quality thread, is instead of putting your fingers in your ear and saying "lalala I'm not listening", break down what you liked from a quality perspective. Give us examples of the strong characterization, quote samples of the well written passages(of which there are a number to choose from), list off Brandon's improved use of foreshadowing. What doesn't help is saying that since lack of polish/quality issues don't bother you(again Team Jordan has admitted to them so it does no good to try and shrug them off) that it means they don't exist. That is how a proper debate should be held. Unfortunately at this point we have one poster telling us "well I liked it, it's the best fantasy series EVUH" and another straight up making things up out of thin air to bolster his points in every post/tossing out logical fallacy after logical fallacy and then never even acknowledging the fact that he's been called out on it.

These are all subjective opinions, and I believe that my opinions are shared by the vast majority of readers who have read these books and also written reviews online in such places like Amazon.com

Well you are correct there. You have only been offering subjective opinions, ones that a mod has requested you stop doing pages ago. Now I am surprised that you are once again offering this angle in your argument when it was so soundly trounced a few pages back.

 

 

 

rane, all of your judgments concerning TOM and AMOL are your opinion and the opinions of a relatively few amount of people.

 

On the other hand, most of the readers of TGS, TOM, and AMOL give those books very good reviews and believe the exact opposite about the last 3 books as you do. Obviously, that means that means your main issues with are truly subjective and NOT objective. So therefore, perhaps if you were to remove your own hyper-critic goggles, you would be able to enjoy these books instead of subjecting yourself to disappointment. According to the sales figures and according to the reviews found on Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble, MOST of the fans enjoyed AMOL, thus enjoying a much better than "decent book to wrap up" the Wheel of Time series.

 

"most of the readers gave these books very good reviews...means your main issues are truly subjective and not objective"

 

actually it means nothing of the sort. if 90% of teenage girls believe twilight is better than shakespeare that does not make it an objective fact. the lowest common denominator is not the objective standard for quality in any sphere.

 

 

 

[According to the sales figures

So by that argument Stephanie Meyer is a great author.

<

br /> and according to the reviews found on Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble,

Much the same as Twilight. So that series was well written?

 

Sales and a popularity contest(which is basically what Amazon is) says absolutely nothing about writing quality. Although once again out of the first 100 of those 1 star reviews that came after people had time to analyze the book all but 5 had to do with the writing.

 

So the amount of 1 star reviews that focus on the writing invalidates your claim even if the argument wasn't already flawed.

[Vambram]

On Amazon.com, there are 751 5 star reviews, 142   4 star reviews,  and there are 73  3 star reviews, as well as 33  2 star reviews and then there are 338 1 star reviews. Now, even if all 338 of the 1 star reviews are focusing on the writing instead of the lack of an e-book, then simple math still tells me that the vast majority of Wheel of Time readers still enjoyed A Memory of Light. Now, does that alone mean AMOL is a great book? No, but it does mean that apparently there is a strong majority of Wheel of Time readers who truly did love and enjoy AMOL. Unlike the critics on this thread, those readers are not making mountains out of molehills and allowing whatever problems in the final book to detract from their enjoyment of the book.

 

 

 The people who bought the Twilight series think its a great series. Do I agree with them? No, I don't. But then again, we are comparing subjective opinions versus subjective opinions, Suttree. 

 

You continue to constantly attempt to try to validate your opinions, Suttree by claiming that they are objective and thus you are implying that because they are objective, they have to be right. Well, just because you and those on your side can keep on making mountains out of molehills does not mean that your opinions are indeed objective opinions. No matter how many times you keep on posting that you are objective does not change the pure and simple fact that your opinions are indeed subjective opinions. 

 

 

I never said that "the lack of polish/quality issues does not bother me" because for me, there are nothing but subjective opinions that A Memory of Light has a lack of polish and poor quality. Also, I dare you to try to find me a quote from Team Jordan or Brandon Sanderson stating that AMOL as issues with poor quality or a lack of polish.

 

What I have said is that I have acknowledged the problems within the final three books, which obviously includes AMOL. But, I have said that those problems are small, minor, and did not detract one iota of enjoyment which I had in reading an epic ending to the fourteen books of the Wheel of Time series. 

 

Unfortunately, you consistently on a daily basis, it seems, continue to build mountains out of molehills. You have defended your criticisms ad nauseum so much so, that I would be surprised if you truly did enjoy A Memory of Light. If you didn't, then guess what? That is okay with me. I don't care whether or not you liked the book. I don't care how often you are negative against A Memory of Light. Your lack of enjoyment does nothing to take away how much I enjoyed the book, or the 14 books of the Wheel of Time series which I believe is the greatest and best series of fantasy novels ever written.

[amolcomments]

On Amazon.com, there are 751 5 star reviews, 142   4 star reviews,  and there are 73  3 star reviews, as well as 33  2 star reviews and then there are 338 1 star reviews. Now, even if all 338 of the 1 star reviews are focusing on the writing instead of the lack of an e-book, then simple math still tells me that the vast majority of Wheel of Time readers still enjoyed A Memory of Light. Now, does that alone mean AMOL is a great book? No, but it does mean that apparently there is a strong majority of Wheel of Time readers who truly did love and enjoy AMOL. Unlike the critics on this thread, those readers are not making mountains out of molehills and allowing whatever problems in the final book to detract from their enjoyment of the book.

 

 

 The people who bought the Twilight series think its a great series. Do I agree with them? No, I don't. But then again, we are comparing subjective opinions versus subjective opinions, Suttree. 

 

You continue to constantly attempt to try to validate your opinions, Suttree by claiming that they are objective and thus you are implying that because they are objective, they have to be right. Well, just because you and those on your side can keep on making mountains out of molehills does not mean that your opinions are indeed objective opinions. No matter how many times you keep on posting that you are objective does not change the pure and simple fact that your opinions are indeed subjective opinions. 

 

 

I never said that "the lack of polish/quality issues does not bother me" because for me, there are nothing but subjective opinions that A Memory of Light has a lack of polish and poor quality. Also, I dare you to try to find me a quote from Team Jordan or Brandon Sanderson stating that AMOL as issues with poor quality or a lack of polish.

 

What I have said is that I have acknowledged the problems within the final three books, which obviously includes AMOL. But, I have said that those problems are small, minor, and did not detract one iota of enjoyment which I had in reading an epic ending to the fourteen books of the Wheel of Time series. 

 

Unfortunately, you consistently on a daily basis, it seems, continue to build mountains out of molehills. You have defended your criticisms ad nauseum so much so, that I would be surprised if you truly did enjoy A Memory of Light. If you didn't, then guess what? That is okay with me. I don't care whether or not you liked the book. I don't care how often you are negative against A Memory of Light. Your lack of enjoyment does nothing to take away how much I enjoyed the book, or the 14 books of the Wheel of Time series which I believe is the greatest and best series of fantasy novels ever written.

 

hai guys i'm bowing out of this thread cos arguing with this guy is like talking to a wall. ignores anything that doesn't fit his predetermined worldview or his ability to respond to, while at the same time desperately seeking external validation because he's unable to offer anything resembling a cogent argument to support his points. i don't know how many times it has to be said this is supposed to be a discussion of issues not whether a bunch of anonymous idiots on amazon gave a book five stars or not. a ton of which are almost certain to be fanbois fighting the good fight against people who gave it 1 star for not releasing an ebook.

 

we know you liked the book, i think the fact that every post you write can be broken down into 30% missing the point of the post you're replying to, about 20% saying that it doesn't matter what the post was since everyone else agrees with you, and 50% some variation on the phrase amol was amazing and best thing you ever read.

[Vambram]

I see that amolcomments is a critic who tosses around insults. I am soooooo glad that amolcomments likens reviewers of A Memory of Light to "anonymous idiots."  

 

amolcomments misstatements regarding me does not bother me, as he is just another anonymous person on the internet.

[Suttree]

OYou continue to constantly attempt to try to validate your opinions, Suttree by claiming that they are objective and thus you are implying that because they are objective, they have to be right. Well, just because you and those on your side can keep on making mountains out of molehills does not mean that your opinions are indeed objective opinions.

This doesn't even make sense. I have already explained two you the two separate areas of critique yes? You told me you understood and even accused me of talking down to you. Now you have come full circle once again. Now which is it. Do the mistakes, continuity errors and lack of polish not exist or do they exist but we are "making mountains out of molehills"? If you admit they exist(as you already have done, "problems within the last 3 books of the Wheel of Time series"), then they are objective. Check mate. You have neatly managed to argue yourself into a corner of which there is no escape.

I Also, I dare you to try to find me a quote from Team Jordan or Brandon Sanderson stating that AMOL as issues with poor quality or a lack of polish.

Not for AMoL, for ToM. I have provided them for you in the past so I have no idea why you would pretend to not know what I am talking about. Once again his style of "slapping words down on a page" creates "rough drafts" that are much more rough than the norm. They changed Brandon's writing process to address the lack of polish and requested more time after the mistakes of that book because they couldn't have a repeat and had to get "AmoL right". That middle book squandered much of the good will and a chief complaint you see is the same problems cropping up despite the request for more time to fix them. Here is just one of the quotes on the topic I have given to you on why they changed his process and requested more time:

 

Team Jordan

That was the case with THE GATHERING STORM and TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT, but it's not how they're doing A MEMORY OF LIGHT. Instead, Brandon is writing a complete draft and then doing a revision or two before sending a polished draft to Team Jordan on December 31st (and that will be the first draft they see). This is more like Robert Jordan's process; he never showed anything to Harriet until it was finished. This does mean editing and revision will take longer, but rushing TOWERS caused a ton of headaches and stress, and Team Jordan and Brandon all want to avoid that this time. They have to get things RIGHT in this final book.

[Vambram]

Suttree, the small mistakes and small errors and the small problems are there in AMOL. However, those are subjective because not even all of the critics and readers of AMOL can even agree upon what all of those problems, errors, and mistakes are. But for 85 pages in this thread, you have been constantly harping on them as if those mistakes are in every chapter of AMOL.

 

Was there some lack of polish in TOM? Sure there was. But what about AMOL? According to you, there are. But, according to what I have seen from my two readings of that book and according to Team Jordan, there was not the problem with the lack of polish in the last book.

[Suttree]

 

 

Suttree, the small mistakes and small errors and the small problems are there in AMOL. However, those are subjective because not even all of the critics and readers of AMOL can even agree upon what all of those problems, errors, and mistakes are. But for 85 pages in this thread, you have been constantly harping on them as if those mistakes are in every chapter of AMOL.

Is it really too much to ask for you to read what I actually say? We have already agreed upon their being two sets of critique. One being subjective(what should have been done with characterization, plots etc) and another being objective(mistakes, continuity, timeline etc. There is no agree or don't agree here, they either exist or they don't). Second I ask you please for the last time to stop with the straw man arguments. This is a quality thread and I have discussed both the good and the bad. Don't drift into Nitros territory and start fabricating what I have said in order to make a point.

 

Also Vam although amol comments is being rather blunt he has made a number of valid points. Ignoring them and focusing on slights doesn't really help. Again I ask you to please break down the books from a quality perspective. You claim to have studied a good deal of literature as well, if true you certainly can go deeper in making your case than repeating "Wheel of Time series which I believe is the greatest and best series of fantasy novels ever written." ad infinitum. I mean you gave up even trying to offer rebuttals for things that I am and Mr Ares are saying and you have now shown beyond any reasonable doubt that you will not allow a reasoned argument to sway you no matter how valid. That leaves me with two conclusions. One being you are a Brandon fanboy who will ignore any fault, or two you are a long time WoT fan that is trying to convince themselves this book lived up to expectations and can't deal with addressing the flaws in a realistic manner. How can anyone take anything you say seriously with how biased you are?

 

This quote from earlier sums up my thoughts on AMoL. You are one of the extremes I mention. It's like you're the "flame of tar valon" to Mark D's "balefire"

 

To be clear I think both extremes in this discussion go overboard. Brandon had a VERY difficult task in stepping in to try and wrap things up and everyone should be grateful he took a swing. That said, we know he is capable of much better work and I don't think it is unfair to hold him to a higher standard. He did some things well but the end result was far too uneven. He was almost universally praised(in retrospect unrealistically so) after TGS and then things went downhill from there. At the end of the day I hope he learns from this project and continues to grow as an author in his own Stormlight Archive. Despite my issues with his work I think it was far better to get a real author who had creative control as Brandon did. With the amount of material he had to create due to how incomplete the notes were there is no possible way a ghost writer could have stepped in to finish things.

 

The main problem I have is so many of these issues seem to have relatively simple solutions and yes much of that is on the editing team as well. I really don't understand why this project was so rushed, I don't understand why plot decisions were made based on deadlines as opposed to what was best for the story, and I don't understand why more time wasn't taken to address mistakes, timeline and polish. In short there are so many questions about the way this whole thing was handled, those questions go far beyond the problems people have with Brandon's writing.

[MasterAblar]

Everyone, keep the discussion on the book, not the members posting. Barid has already warned you and I'd rather not lock the thread so keep it clean.

[Vambram]

I have been publicly accused of several things, and I shall not allow those accusations to stand unanswered.

 

1. I have not been raising up straw man arguments.

 

2. I am not a Brandon Sanderson fanboy.

 

3. I am not trying to convince myself that AMOL lived up to expectations. Upon the first and second read of AMOL, I found that for me, this book very easily lived up to my expectations of it, and I did not have to do anything to convince myself of that.

 

4. I have not ignored the points made by the critics who disagree with me.

 

5. I have offered reasons why I enjoyed AMOL in this thread, but also in many of the other threads concerning AMOL.

 

 

Finally, I am completely and totally done with this thread regarding AMOL. Over the last 85 pages of this thread, both sides have more than adequately made their points very well known. Anything else said on this thread by me or any of the critics will probably be little more than redundant repetitions of posts previously posted.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Anyone else get irritated over use of the "<insert character name> died" line?

Just seems like in instances of execution, pun intended, that instead of allowing the reader to draw forth obvious conclusions through exhibition of talent with the written word, we progress through a lead up of scenes and then right when it gets down to the critical moment...the writer derped out. See also: When Nynaeve weaves balefire during her testing - at this point everyone and his mom reading knows what balefire is, there's no need to be all IN CASE YOU DIDN'T REALIZE SHES WEAVING BALEFIRE.

Little kids in crosswalks need their hands held, not people who have stuck with a series through a couple decades. Almost feel like it's disrespecting your readership to write in such a manner, at that point in a storyline.

I mean common, talk about not playing to win...