Using a Well to Seal the Bore

[Suttree]

All Callandor has done is shine like crazy and his efforts at Maradon used Light almost exclusively.

 

There was a mention of light that stood out at Maradon but it certainly wasn't exclusive. The Ashaman watching were very clear on amount of OP weaves they were seeing.

[KrisAnton]

Sorry, one more thing. If the Eye WAS used incorrectly, then the Aes Sedai who made it so that the future Dragon would have a way to fix it if the DO broke loose again, then that means the AS at that time all agreed with LTT's plan. Why would they make a back up to a plan they hated and felt was worth risking the lives of the entire world for? If not this then, what was the worlds greatest need if not to reseal the bore? Did they assume that when the DO broke free then the Pattern would spit out a Dragon? And if that's the case, they knew Saidin to be tainted, why would they trust this resource of pure Saidin to a mind that would automatically be corrupted by the Taint when he began channeling? Just doesn't make sense given that a.) AS would never agree with a man regardless of how many lives hang in the balance and b.) their entire back up plan relies on a madman channeling through the Eye long enough to seal the Bore? 

[KrisAnton]

Sorry, one more thing. If the Eye WAS used incorrectly, then the Aes Sedai who made it so that the future Dragon would have a way to fix it if the DO broke loose again, then that means the AS at that time all agreed with LTT's plan. Why would they make a back up to a plan they hated and felt was worth risking the lives of the entire world for? If not this then, what was the worlds greatest need if not to reseal the bore? Did they assume that when the DO broke free then the Pattern would spit out a Dragon? And if that's the case, they knew Saidin to be tainted, why would they trust this resource of pure Saidin to a mind that would automatically be corrupted by the Taint when he began channeling? Just doesn't make sense given that a.) AS would never agree with a man regardless of how many lives hang in the balance and b.) their entire back up plan relies on a madman channeling through the Eye long enough to seal the Bore? 

[herid]

Sorry, one more thing. If the Eye WAS used incorrectly, then the Aes Sedai who made it so that the future Dragon would have a way to fix it if the DO broke loose again, then that means the AS at that time all agreed with LTT's plan.

what plan? The Eye was made after the Bore was sealed based on some foretellings that were made at the time.

[KrisAnton]

But based on TSR the aes Sedai knew the seal was poor and that Ishamel still walked the world from time to time. I have a hard time seeing them creating a back up plan involving the eye based on that knowledge.

[herid]

backup plan to what? I don't understand what you are talking about. The Eye was made during the Breaking to be used in some distant time in the future. The Aes Sedai who made the Eye only had one plan for its use when they made it based on some foretellings made at the time.

[DSgamer64]

Ryan52 makes a good point about the original purpose of the Eye. It's also not really clear if there was some kind of physical object containing it that can be moved around. I rather think not. It looks to me like RJ hasn't fully developed the notion of the Wells when the first novel was written. Before it is used up the Eye is described as a pool of saidin which literally looks like a pool filled with some sort of liquid (essence of saidin according to Moiraine)  shaped as an eye. This is definitely not how the other Wells in the series are described. Once the Eye is drained I'm not sure if there is anything left that can be reused or moved. It is mentioned that there is a crystal column left in the middle of the pool and the Horn, the Banner  and the broken Seal  were under it. Someone on Tor suggested that it might be the crystal pillar in Egwene's dream in memory  #7. That would be a cool twist.   But even if the Eye can not be moved it's possible that it can be refilled and used from distance. It's not made very clear in the book but I think that Rand used the Eye to kill Trollocs in Tarwin's gap which is some distance from the Eye location (which is not constant anyway). So it might be possible that Rand refilled the Eye during VoG and will use it again in the Last Battle. But even in such scenario it would not be used for the original purpose of the Eye as Ryan52 explained.

 

Aren't Wells generally forms of Ter'angreal like the belt that Nynaeve has though? I believe Cadsuane has one as well among her collection of items on her head. What if Callandor itself can be used as a Well? And the Eye of the World was drained out, so unless there are other pools of the One Power located in the world that can be used, I doubt a scenario like the one that was suggested by the OP would work. I believe that the reason the seal was weak and saidin tainted when Lews Therin tried to close the Bore was due to the fact that the Hundred Companions were all men and that saidin exclusively isn't enough to seal the Dark One forever. I would assume that women would also need to be involved in sealing the prison, or even so much as killing the Dark One completely. The True Power is many times more powerful then Saidin and Saidar individually, but it's possible that linked and with the use of Callandor, 100 men and women along with the Dragon would be enough to seal the Bore or destroy the Dark One. Maybe linked with Rand, women can touch the True Power as well, something that I don't think has ever been considered in the book but I know is something that the voice of Lews Therin fears doing, using the True Power.

[Suttree]

 I believe that the reason the seal was weak and saidin tainted when Lews Therin tried to close the Bore was due to the fact that the Hundred Companions were all men and that saidin exclusively isn't enough to seal the Dark One forever. I would assume that women would also need to be involved in sealing the prison, or even so much as killing the Dark One completely.

We know per RJ that the only difference had the women been involved would have been saidar tainted as well. The plan was flawed and the women not being there allowed the world to escape the breaking. I've always thought the pattern had something to do with LPD's opposition.

 

ROBERT JORDAN

Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the...and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant” [it was actually the “Fateful Concord”], which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.

 

[DSgamer64]

Thanks for the insight, though I never felt that RJ wrote it as Lews Therin's plan being flawed completely, just that it didn't work properly with just men involved.

 

There is only one person who could possibly know how to seal the Bore again, and whether she would serve the Light after so many years in the Shadow is unknown. Lanfear in her past life, always sought to be the most powerful woman among Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends, she researched for years a way of obtaining more power when she discovered the True Power and it's link to the Dark One. Lanfear was one of those involved in opening the Bore in the first place and I still believe that she has good in her, if there is a character who will have a redemption and help save the world in AMoL, I believe it would be her. Sure, that might be the easiest guess but it's also somewhat logical if the story ends with the Bore sealed and the Dragon alive.

[mbuehner]

I've always had a problem with the idea that the Eye wasn't used 'properly'. Just because it wasn't used the way its creators foresaw doesn't mean it wasn't used the way the pattern required it to be. The entire series is replete with examples of 'the best laid plans' going wrong, but things working out the way they are meant to.

[Suttree]

Thanks for the insight, though I never felt that RJ wrote it as Lews Therin's plan being flawed completely, just that it didn't work properly with just men involved.

Even Rand in text says it was flawed so that is pretty clear.

 

As for Lanfear I would be interested to see why you think she has some good in her and would know how to seal the bore?

 

Interview: Feb 1st, 1994

Letter to Carolyn Fusinato (Verbatim)

  Robert Jordan

Now about how evil the Forsaken are. I'm not really sure you define evil. Part of what I am writing about is just how ordinary evil is. In many ways, without the One Power, the Forsaken would be no more than Darkfriends, though perhaps a bit more than ordinary. True, their callousness toward the pain, suffering, even death of ordinary people, and the way they submerge everything and everyone in their own quest for power—and true immortality—their willingness to deliver the world to the Dark One in that quest, are shared by many who do not have their powers. The point is that they are human; they haven't gotten rid of human emotions, or human weaknesses except for a few physical ones. They are not gods, nor even demi-gods, though they seek to be and think they already are. But believe me, there is nothing they will not do to achieve their goals, no price too high to pay—especially if it is paid by someone else, or millions of someone elses. And Lanfear holding back and doing good for Rand's sake? Ha! She was psychically fixed on possessing a man who never loved her. Even with that, her desire for Rand was as much a desire for power as for him. To be the one to deliver the Dragon Reborn to the service of the Shadow; that would set her above the other Forsaken. And learning that the access ter'angreal for the two huge sa'angreal were still in existence....Sure, she wanted his love—not least because it had been denied her; Lanfear was a woman who claimed a right to anything she wanted—wanted his devotion, but even more than his body, Lanfear wanted power, the power possibly to replace the Dark One, even to replace the Creator. For Rand's sake? Not a chance.

If it is laughable to think she would do good for Rand I doubt she would for anyone else.

[DSgamer64]

While it is kind of vague, the meaning behind the dream that Rand has involving her in Towers of Midnight could be important. She wants his help, and has at times helped him on his path to realizing his ultimate destiny despite having the power to kill him that whole time. I never felt that during segments of the book where she was involved, that she truly displayed enough interest in killing Rand. Sure, it is hard to trust her, how could anyone trust the motives of one of the Forsaken? But much like the blog about Moridin possibly being a double agent, all we can do is theorize until AMoL comes out. There are always stories of redemption and people who change for the greater good, but I suggested that Lanfear might be one of the keys to sealing the Bore because she was one of the first interested in opening it, and she created the Bore along with Beidomon, which in turn released the Dark One from his prison. So she managed to some how rip a hole in the Pattern in order to do it, so there must be a way to repair that hole.

[Suttree]

While it is kind of vague, the meaning behind the dream that Rand has involving her in Towers of Midnight could be important. She wants his help...

Brandon's comments on the topic seem to show that it's a trap for certain, especially considering the only way to gain access to Rand's warded dreams is through the link with Moridin.

 

If Lanfear changes(which I think is highly unlikely) it will be for self preservation not the greater good. We have seen nothing in her character that indicates she would all of a sudden change that drastically.

[KrisAnton]

She "helped" Rand to further her own means. She didn't do any of this out of a sincere effort to aid the Dragon Reborn. A sweet turn of events would be Rand using or manipulating her into giving him the knowledge eye needs to reveal the bore, but at this point I don't think there's much he doesn't know already. She never killed him because the forsaken were working to turn Rand, then when that didn't work they resorted to try killing him.

[KrisAnton]

She "helped" Rand to further her own means. She didn't do any of this out of a sincere effort to aid the Dragon Reborn. A sweet turn of events would be Rand using or manipulating her into giving him the knowledge eye needs to reveal the bore, but at this point I don't think there's much he doesn't know already. She never killed him because the forsaken were working to turn Rand, then when that didn't work they resorted to try killing him.