Mat's Luck

[Haggis]

My feeling always been it's just him being Ta'veren. A guy breaking his neck by triping while a kid falls out of a multistory building without a scratch is not uncommon around the superboys. The diffence is Mat is the one who makes use out of it the most. We never seen Perrin or Rand play dice, they could be just as lucky.

 

Basically Mat isn't a gambler because he lucky. He lucky because he gambles.

[Mr Ares]

I'm sorry. Mat's luck continues to bother the living DAYLIGHTS out of me.

 

Seriously, how do you fight a person like this?

 

I thought his luck wasn't supposed to effect things that involved skill. but then his girlfriend in book 5 broke her knife on his medallion trying to stab him. A Maiden Of The Spear messed up a stab?!

 

if stuff like THAT can happen, why does he EVER need to defend himself? He could just blindfold himself and lurch about wildly. The book doesn't seem to be implying otherwise.

Because while stuff like that can happen, he has no guarantee that it will. Luck is an unreliable ally, even for Mat. Mat has his luck in addition to being ta'veren, but even so is not immune to harm, and has been saved by his skill at arms before. The books in no way imply that relying solely on luck is a good idea, just that Mat is luckier than most. His luck didn't stop him getting raped. His luck didn't stop him losing an eye, or losing various friends.

 

 

No, Mat's luck could not be responsible for keeping him alive in the TR. His being ta'veren could be, or it could just be ordinary human luck, nothing supernatural. But his super luck started after SL. (They became ta'veren a few weeks before Moiraine found them - so there's enough of a time lapse for there to be some indicator of increased luck.)

 

I think RJ said once that the three boys becoming Ta'Veren didn't happen until the moment they left the Two Rivers, so it's not that.

No, he said it happened before they left the TR, and before they met Moiraine.

 

Why am I the only person bothered by stuff like this? Ta'veren, Mat's luck. It's blatant contrivance hiding behind a lampshade. Lampshades generally aren't a good thing

 

Mat is invincible. It's hard to be engaged in a story when I honestly don't feel like one of the main characters is EVER danger

Mat is not invincible, he's just lucky. As opposed to any other character in any other story ever, who survive in part because of luck. Or any number of people in reality who survive due to luck. You're the only one bothered because it's a silly thing to be bothered about - RJ made his heroes a bit luckier than most, and added a mechanism to explain it. It doesn't guarantee victory, just nudges things in the right direction. And Shai'tan was on the cusp of victory regardless.

 

My crazy theory is that Lanfear gave him the luck. When he was recovering in TV she came to see him, and did something to him with the power, before she was interrupted and left. As soon as he left the tower his luck kicked in. Since there is a Ter'angreal, made by a chaneller, dealing with luck, it stands to reason that a chaneller with her knowledge and power could also deal with luck.

Aside from the quote Suttree posted, he was lucky before that - we see signs of it in TGH, and on the road to TV. His luck improves after he picks up the dagger. It improves again after he is severed from the dagger.

[EmperorAllspice]

Sorry, I still don't know why I can swallow luck when other heroes in other stories have it but not when Mat displays it. Maybe because in other stories no one mentions it, so my suspension of disbelief is kept intact. In here, it makes the whole thing feel inevitable because it's an actual in-universe system that's keeping him alive. THAT's why he feels invincible.

 

and no matter how much I say it, someone always responds with "just like any hero in any story" and I'm tired of it. I can actually not notice the luck in other stories, or it feels like luck that a person in real life might actually have, the story doesn't rub it in my face that they're insanely lucky. I despise luck. I'd rather someone win due to skill, not because he accidentally hit a man on the head when stretching.

[AquilaInfernus]

It is interesting that you only have issues with Mat's luck. I view it slightly differently perhaps. There is ta'veren luck, and randomness luck. Ta'veren luck can be defined as the character finding objects, scenarios or people that they need, it can best be described as "there are no coincidences with ta'veren" or "Mat/Rand/Perrin has a tendency to find what he needs when he needs it". It's RJ accounting for improbabilities that may break the suspension of disbelief. Note there are other aspects of ta'veren - Rand's aura of chance twisting, Perrin's food preservation etc. I'm limiting myself to directly affected on the individual.

 

The randomness luck on the on the other hand is unique to Mat. He notices as far back as SR that his luck is better with dice than cards and evolves to the point that he can almost will a result with random objects (dice his choice, naturally), as he does in Hinderstap. It actually ties in well with his generalship abilities. He is able to outwit opponents in ridiculous bets, but takes care never to take too much too consistently. This is equivalent to Perrin's Wolfbrother-hood and Rand's channeling. As to where he acquired it, we'll hopefully find out tomorrow

[Mr Ares]

Sorry, I still don't know why I can swallow luck when other heroes in other stories have it but not when Mat displays it. Maybe because in other stories no one mentions it, so my suspension of disbelief is kept intact. In here, it makes the whole thing feel inevitable because it's an actual in-universe system that's keeping him alive. THAT's why he feels invincible.

 

and no matter how much I say it, someone always responds with "just like any hero in any story" and I'm tired of it. I can actually not notice the luck in other stories, or it feels like luck that a person in real life might actually have, the story doesn't rub it in my face that they're insanely lucky. I despise luck. I'd rather someone win due to skill, not because he accidentally hit a man on the head when stretching.

Mat frequently wins due to skill. Skill with staff, or knife, or commanding armies. And no mater how tired you are of hearing it, it's still a good answer: many other stories require huge amounts of luck for the protagonists to win, whether you notice it or not. This luck is frequently not mentioned, but it is also unjustified. In those cases, the protagonists can as easily be seen as in possession of  plot shield, and incapable of losing. The difference with RJ is that he acknowledges the luck, and explains it, but his guys are no luckier for it. They are as vulnerable as any other hero. And, as already mentioned, being ta'veren has still seen the boys suffer some rather unfortunate things - Rand has lost a hand and is in permanent pain, Mat has lost an eye and was raped, and both of them have felt a lot of guilt over women they were unable to save (not to mention that Mat actually did die - balefire brought him back, but you can still read his death scene. Surely that should seriously make you question the idea that he can't die?). Perrin had his entire family killed. He didn't get lucky there, he didn't win, he lost people he was close to. Being ta'veren didn't do him a blind bit of good there. Given that they have all lost at some point, the idea that they are invincible doesn't hold water.

[Haggis]

Mat has been killed, Fatally wounded, was clinically dead, and crushed under a building, he only survived because of balefire, the fact that rand knew cpr. And in your view the fact that a Dying maiden of the spear had a bad angle when she tried to stab him he's invincible.

I think your problem is your putting the aiel on a bit of a pedestal. She was dying so didn’t have the strength to avoid the foxhead.

 

[pskarnaq]

For all of Mat's luck, it did not save him from being blasted by Rahvin's lightning.

How do we know his luck didn't save him from the lightning? After all, it was awfully lucky that Rand not only survived the onslaught of a superior opponent, in an arena where his opponent knew all the rules and Rand knew none. It was awfully lucky that Nyneave distracted Rahvin at just the right moment, so that Rand was able to catch him unawares and take him out. And it was very lucky that Rand chose balefire- and a shitload of it- to do it, thereby bringing Mat back from the great beyond.

[Guest Cavalier]

Sorry, I still don't know why I can swallow luck when other heroes in other stories have it but not when Mat displays it. Maybe because in other stories no one mentions it, so my suspension of disbelief is kept intact. In here, it makes the whole thing feel inevitable because it's an actual in-universe system that's keeping him alive. THAT's why he feels invincible.

 

and no matter how much I say it, someone always responds with "just like any hero in any story" and I'm tired of it. I can actually not notice the luck in other stories, or it feels like luck that a person in real life might actually have, the story doesn't rub it in my face that they're insanely lucky. I despise luck. I'd rather someone win due to skill, not because he accidentally hit a man on the head when stretching.

I know you say you tire of hearing it said that it happens to other characters in other stories, maybe a specific example might help.  Matt's luck is very much, to my mind, like Spider-Man's Spider Sense.  We know that all comic book characters are stupid lucky and get out of things they shouldn't, but for Spider-Man, part of his ability to do so is explained, much like Matt's luck.  It might not make much sense,but it makes for a fun story.