Linking

[kraefzke]

It might be argued that this question belongs either in the General WoT Discussion part of the forum or should be posted in the Callandor-third-wielder thread, but being unable to decide which was more appropriate I started a new topic here. If any admin feels disturbed, please move this to wherever it fits best. That said, let's start:

 

Does anybody know why there are so many versions of how linking works, i.e. which gender has to lead in which circle constellations? Even some glossaries of different editions contradict each other. AND the forsaken (and Cadsuane) contradict the glossaries. Browsing the internet for this, I find Has nobody ever thought of asking BS to clarify this? Or has it been R(/M)AFOed? This question has been bothering me for a long, long time now, and I honestly have no idea why didn't post it ages ago.

[kraefzke]

Is that question so stupid that nobody feels like answering it? Or is it that nobody knows? Is there a general agreement on how it really works? Has BS or RJ ever stated plain-out which version is right and which is wrong? Could anybody please enlighten me?

[FarShainMael]

Well, for a start, I don't think I'd believe anything the Forsaken say

 

But seriously: two things.

 

Could you provide us with a list of the various different versions (yeah, I'm being lazy, I know)

 

And: when you ask why are there so many versions, are you actually asking which one is correct? (Sorry, but I am sometimes pathologically literal-minded; I'm not being sarky, just seeking clarification.)

[kraefzke]

Sure!

 

Since I'm a lazy person too, I'll copy paste from the Article on WoT-Wiki:

 

Rules and effects

 

Men cannot link without a woman' date=' and a circle of women cannot exceed 13 without the presence of a man. For circles with more than two men, there must be at least one more woman than there are men. The largest possible circle is 72 channelers. Adding one man to a circle of 13 women allows the inclusion of 13 more women, while the addition of a second allows 17 more women. Six men are necessary to bring a circle to 72, but it is unknown what effect the third, fourth, and fifth men have.

 

In general, any member of the circle may lead it, but in some cases, the leader must be a man. According to the glossaries for Lord of Chaos and A Crown of Swords, a man must lead a circle of 72 or a mixed circle of fewer than 13. This is contradicted by an earlier book and two later ones. In Chapter 34 of The Fires of Heaven, Nynaeve eavesdrops on a meeting of Forsaken in Tel'aran'rhiod, where Graendal says a man would need to control the circle if it were more than 13 and that a woman must control the circle of two women and one man that she and Lanfear were to form with Rahvin. In addition, Cadsuane tells Rand al'Thor in Chapter 27 of The Path of Daggers that for the sa'angreal Callandor to be used safely, a man must be linked to two women, and one of the women must lead the circle. Finally, during the Battle near Shadar Logoth in Chapter 35 of Winter's Heart, Daigian leads a circle including the Asha'man Eben Hopwil and two other Aes Sedai. Other rules on who must lead can be found:

 

■If a man and a woman link, the man leads. (LoC, Ch6)

■If a man and more than one woman link, any can lead. (TWORJTWOT)

■A woman must lead if there is a minimum number of men in the circle. (TWORJTWOT)

 

If the person leading the circle releases the Source, breaking the circle, rather than releasing members from the circle first, the effect is harshly disorienting.

[/quote']

 

And for clarification: What I'm actually asking not only which version is correct (because I suppose it's more of a blend between versions), but mainly if RJ or BS have ever clarified on the matter and/or if there is a consensus in the community on how exactly it works (and of course, what that consensus is).

[Tyzack]

The largest possible circle is 72 channelers.

 

This is something i have been thinking about, wasn't LTTs original plan to use 72? Is there a reason why that has been abandoned in the current struggle? I should think that if vast amounts of Power are needed then a circle of 72 + callandor would be much better than 3 + callandor...is there a reason why the FoL are limiting themselves to 3 + callandor?

[MasterAblar]

The largest possible circle is 72 channelers.

 

This is something i have been thinking about' date=' wasn't LTTs original plan to use 72? Is there a reason why that has been abandoned in the current struggle? I should think that if vast amounts of Power are needed then a circle of 72 + callandor would be much better than 3 + callandor...is there a reason why the FoL are limiting themselves to 3 + callandor?

[/quote']

 

His original plan was for a circle of 13, made up of 7 women and 6 men (since there must always be one more woman than there are men, apart from three exceptions).

 

I wonder who must lead of cirle of 72 if there is the minimum amount of men. Normally a cirle of 72 is led by a men, but a circle with the minimum amount of men is led by a woman.

[FarShainMael]

"Cadsuane tells Rand al'Thor in Chapter 27 of The Path of Daggers that for the sa'angreal Callandor to be used safely, a man must be linked to two women, and one of the women must lead the circle."

 

Am I right in saying that this applies to using Callandor in particular, not to 3-circles in general?

[Suttree]

The largest possible circle is 72 channelers.

 

This is something i have been thinking about' date=' wasn't LTTs original plan to use 72? Is there a reason why that has been abandoned in the current struggle?

[/quote']

 

Mast Ablar has the numbers correct but the reason is LTT's original plan was flawed and if the women had been involved Saidar would have been tainted as well. Larger amounts of power will not be the difference, Rand says he can't try to seal the bore the same way and Min is researching the new one for him.