What would happen if...

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Theory about the antimatter.

 

a) Balefire is made of normal matter/energy.

The antimatter and balefire will annihilate each other and produce gamma rays, as per usual.

 

b) Balefire is something different.

The balefire will destroy the antimatter just like it would normal matter.

 

 

but in space, there's noone to hear you splode stuff.

[Leyrann]

Theory about the antimatter.

 

a) Balefire is made of normal matter/energy.

The antimatter and balefire will annihilate each other and produce gamma rays, as per usual.

 

b) Balefire is something different.

The balefire will destroy the antimatter just like it would normal matter.

 

I'd like to see that first possibility. I guess something like balefire creates really much gamma rays then...

 

Or... could it be that balefire IS antimatter, that is made visible because it's destroying everything, and heartstone is something that they also use now to keep antimatter safe, but then made with the OP?

 

Yeah, I like these crazy ideas. I also don't believe in global warming.

[Crimson_Ayla]

S'ok cindy :)

 

I can has boomies here too

[Crimson_Ayla]

Or... could it be that balefire IS antimatter, that is made visible because it's destroying everything, and heartstone is something that they also use now to keep antimatter safe, but then made with the OP?

 

For something to be visible, light has to reflect off it into our eyes. If the light touched the balefire (and it was actually antimatter) it would be annihilated.

 

Is the OP made of something or is it just a force?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

since rj seemed to indicate that knowledge of the creator was not questioned in the WoT because people had direct evidence of it, i'm assuming he meant that was because of the power, and further assuming that the power is intangible, a force of creation and destruction.

[Leyrann]

That is a very good question - What IS the One Power?

 

We know that the True Power is the Dark One, but we also know that the One Power is NOT the Creator. We also know that there is a limited amount of it, but that it just replenishes with used OP. When Rand cleansed Saidin, he just channeled, and stripped off the Taint and put it in Shadar Logoth, until he had channeled ALL the One Power. (do you imagine how awesome that has to be, channeling all the existing One Power in one day?) So, we also know the OP exists in two parts, that can not touch each other. We know that from the Cleansing too.

 

But where is it when not used? Outside, as I will call it, time, space and matter? Where the Wheel will be too? And the Creator? I'd say the Wheel is no matter either, and like the Dark One is just a being, without matter, I think the Creator is too. If it is at the same place as the Creator and the Wheel, then it can't be matter. But can it be outside time? That would mean it is always Tainted, and never Tainted at the same time. So it will not be there. Inside time. Outside space, I'd say, because it isn't likely you can make a rocket and fly to it. But matter? I don't know. Maybe another dimension we cannot see? Then it can be outside (our) space, but still be matter. Or it is not matter. That can be too. Still has to be another dimension, I think, because it is inside time.

 

/end what is maybe my longest BT post ever, outside RP'ing.

[Crimson_Ayla]

So are you suggesting that the OP is in another dimension we will never be able to reach, or the OP IS the other dimension?

 

Maybe the taint and the OP were both in the same place outside of space and time, but when Rand cleansed it, the taint was moved to a different somewhere outside of space and time. That way, the OP can exist outside of time, but will no longer be tainted. Or would that mean the OP was never tainted in the first place now? Except we know it was because of all the mad asha'man... Maybe its like going back in time and killing your grandparents?

 

Also, was the taint specific to saidin? Would it have affected saidar too if it had had the chance?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

it would have affected saidar if it had had a chance. thus is has been spakeneded.

[Crimson_Ayla]

And how much OP is there? If all the channelers drew in as much as thay could at the same time and held it, would there be enough to go around? If so, how much would be left over?

 

I would love to see RJ or BS trying to answer these questions :)

[Crimson_Ayla]

it would have affected saidar if it had had a chance. thus is has been spakeneded.

 

Thank you cindy :)

 

Has it also been spakeneded why the taint didn't jump?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

maybe i haven't readed it.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i think acause the girls wasn't there at the tainting so it didn't have a chance. and the girls and boys don;t mingle their powers directly. cause that would be.... plot inconvenient.

[Leyrann]

So are you suggesting that the OP is in another dimension we will never be able to reach, or the OP IS the other dimension?

 

Maybe the taint and the OP were both in the same place outside of space and time, but when Rand cleansed it, the taint was moved to a different somewhere outside of space and time. That way, the OP can exist outside of time, but will no longer be tainted. Or would that mean the OP was never tainted in the first place now? Except we know it was because of all the mad asha'man... Maybe its like going back in time and killing your grandparents?

 

Also, was the taint specific to saidin? Would it have affected saidar too if it had had the chance?

 

I would think the OP was in an other dimension, but I wouldn't say it IS that dimension. However, everything is possible. Keep that in mind, when discussing a fantasy book, whether it is made by yourself or not.

 

And the OP can't be outside of time. First think of the Wheel. I guess we both agree that the Wheel is outside what it makes (time). There, you can, sort of, see the Wheel. But, when you see the Wheel, you don't just see what happens to Rand and his friends. Earlier, the Wheel has woven the Age of Legends, and the Breaking, and Hawkwing, and the Tainting. But it has also woven further back. The Age of the Wolfbrothers. And before that (in my opinion, some disagree) our Age. If you go back far enough, you are at the start of the Fourth Age. The Age after Rand. Only in the Third Age (Age of the Taint, as I call it), saidin is Tainted. We do not know of saidar is ever Tainted, but I think not. Would it be outside time, Rand would draw from the Tainted saidin while the person who tested Lews Therin was drawing untainted saidin to test our little, young Lews. That can't be, because they would draw from the same saidin. Thus, it has to be inside time. (you know, I really LOVE the word "thus". It just sounds epic)

 

And I think that the Taint would have affected saidar if it could (I mean, it would mean no channelers left, except those who serve the DO, and are protected). It only didn't, because saidin and saidar can't touch, and so, the Taint couldn't affect saidar.

 

And how much OP is there? If all the channelers drew in as much as thay could at the same time and held it, would there be enough to go around? If so, how much would be left over?

 

I would love to see RJ or BS trying to answer these questions :)

 

I would say there would be enough saidin every channeler (even in the AoL) could draw at the same time, because it took Rand almost a full day to channel everything, using the CK. The thing would be enough to break the world alone, and I think the Forsaken weren't talking about hours, but about minutes. Also remember the fight of Rand and Asmodean in TSR. The land around Rhuidean is broken too. That happened in what? Five minutes? Less?

 

RJ would most likely think of an answer the moment you asked him (for example, enough to channel through the CK for eight hours, or more than every channeler in the world can hold), while BS should say RANFO (Read And Not Find Out).

[Crimson_Ayla]

Ok, so the OP is possibly hiding in another dimension somewhere inside time.

 

This is about the cleansing of saidin:

Rand, using untainted saidar, formed a hollow tube, with one end touching the male half of the True Source and the other end touching Shadar Logoth. The weave did not form as he expected it to, but it worked as he intended.

 

He forced saidin through the pipe of saidar, pumping the tainted Power into Shadar Logoth. He did not, as some people thought, send all of saidin through SL, because that's impossible. What he seems to have done is pump saidin through the conduit until he felt the taint layered on top of it shift, and begin flowing into SL of its own accord, forming that huge black dome. Then he just had to hang on until all the taint went through into SL, and then collapse the conduit.

 

Basically it was a siphoning effect. Evan "Skwid" Langlinais explains: "The taint being the evil of The DO, and SL being an evil which was created to fight the DO's evil, the two attract one another like opposite magnetic polarities, and cancel one another out in the end. To get some of the taint into SL, Rand had to channel an immense amount of saidin, but this was still miniscule compared to the infinite quantity of saidin contained in the True Source. Once a sufficient quantity of taint was dumped into SL, SL consumed it at a rate greater than that of which Rand was dumping saidin into SL, and the taint was pulled along like it was being siphoned off the top."

Yoinked from here, although I'm not sure if this is accurate or just speculation...

 

But back to black holes for a moment. Balefire is a weave and thus ( ) must be information. I will therefore assume that it cannot travel faster than light (ignoring the chance that some of those pesky neutrinos may or may not be able to do so) and so would be stuck inside a black hole, for a time anyway.

From the balefire's point of view, it takes a finite amount of time for the balefire to reach the singularity. During this time it would destroy anything it encountered. Now as we have absolutely no idea what goes on in there, this is all guess work.

Upon reaching the singularity, if the balefire is condensed (or whatever you want to call it) instantaneously into the infinitely dense point, I am of the opinion it would destroy the black hole but be left as an infinitely thin beam/point. However, if it takes a time which is longer than balefire takes to destroy things for the balefire to be condensed, the singularity would be destroyed before balefire could be affected and it would go merrily on its way.

 

End ramble, if anybody is still alive by this point :D

[Leyrann]

I am. And I think I need to do some research for the amount of saidin...

 

Thanks to Terez, I have an RJ quote (I love how the Main Characters can be wrong in WoT...):

 

JWB: Is the One Power finite or infinite?

RJ: The One Power is finite but cannot be used up. When the weave is done, it returns to the Source.

 

So saidin is finite, but can be used again.

 

And balefire in a black hole... Would balefire be slowed if it destroyed something? Then it could take some time before going out of the (disappeared) black hole. At least I'd say that is was thin, but the balefire later would be big again, because there is no singularity anymore.

[Crimson_Ayla]

Good point.

 

So if the singularity was destroyed, the balefire would be normal sized b/c the singularity's actions would be undone.

 

Hypothetical question: If the singularity was destroyed, depending on the power of the balefire, a number of its recent actions would be undone. Would the stuff that had entered the singularity moments before still be around, because the singularity would never have been there to pull it in, or would the stuff not return because it has been balefired as part of the singularity?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

and if the balefire made it through the singularity to the other universe, what would happen to that universe, and what would the backlash be in this one?

 

i don't think the great lord wants you to do this this ayla... too many variables.

[Turin Turambar]

That is a good question Ayla. I would say the items reappear. The Balefire would have prevented them from ever going into the singularity as it no longer existed at that point. I would say "magic" trumps science here.

 

Going back a little, once the singularity was destroyed the balefir would also be destroyed. To my knowledge there has been no case where one stream of Balefire has continued on after destroying the thing it hits. otherwise there would be strams of it zooming all over.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

the singularity is singular. can't make too many assumtions about it.

[Leyrann]

Good point.

 

So if the singularity was destroyed, the balefire would be normal sized b/c the singularity's actions would be undone.

 

Hypothetical question: If the singularity was destroyed, depending on the power of the balefire, a number of its recent actions would be undone. Would the stuff that had entered the singularity moments before still be around, because the singularity would never have been there to pull it in, or would the stuff not return because it has been balefired as part of the singularity?

 

I'd agree with Turin that it still existed, and was never balefired.

 

That is a good question Ayla. I would say the items reappear. The Balefire would have prevented them from ever going into the singularity as it no longer existed at that point. I would say "magic" trumps science here.

 

Going back a little, once the singularity was destroyed the balefir would also be destroyed. To my knowledge there has been no case where one stream of Balefire has continued on after destroying the thing it hits. otherwise there would be strams of it zooming all over.

 

Yeah, it would indeed have to stop. That means you'll need REALLY MUCH balefire to destroy a black hole. Maybe even the CK.

[Crimson_Ayla]

To my knowledge there has been no case where one stream of Balefire has continued on after destroying the thing it hits. otherwise there would be strams of it zooming all over.

 

The flaw with this is that balefire should disappear as soon as it hits air then :)

 

the singularity is singular. can;t make too many assumtions about it.

 

Cindy, that singularity thing made me laugh so much You mind if I put it in my sig?

[Leyrann]

To my knowledge there has been no case where one stream of Balefire has continued on after destroying the thing it hits. otherwise there would be strams of it zooming all over.

 

The flaw with this is that balefire should disappear as soon as it hits air then :)

 

Maybe it only disappeares if it hits something solid (is that the right word in English? For example ice or metal). But then we don't know if a black hole is solid, liquid or gas, or even plasma.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

To my knowledge there has been no case where one stream of Balefire has continued on after destroying the thing it hits. otherwise there would be strams of it zooming all over.

 

The flaw with this is that balefire should disappear as soon as it hits air then :)

 

the singularity is singular. can;t make too many assumtions about it.

 

Cindy, that singularity thing made me laugh so much You mind if I put it in my sig?

 

 

honored - but plz let me correct the typo

[Crimson_Ayla]

Hmm. Solid is the right word, and what you say seems reasonable.

 

What about if you could somehow open a gateway into a black hole....

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

squishy