Egwene should be doing more in the borderlands.

[yoniy0]

Can we lock it down?

Only if it continues to be abused, I think. Otherwise, what's the point?

[Xcorpyo001]

So..in a topic about Egwene and replying to a post about AS capabilities as compared to the Asha'man, my comment about AS and Egwene feeling of superiority compared to any man(a theme in the books and also a part of Egwene own feelings with her discomfort on the bonding of women by men as compared to vice versa) is not allowed?

 

Indeed, it is not allowed.

 

I trust this is clear enough.

 

 

Why?

 

 

And on topic(s)

 

 

1. The AS sent in large numbers to heal men 20 years ago.

Those men were wounded because they fought the Aiel attacking Tar Valon itself.

And the AS had one very important reason to 'heal' them: while healing the men they made a list of women who gave birth on Dragonmount at the time of the prophecy.

Maybe they also did it from a sense of duty, to pay them back for their help/sacrifice, or because they were pissed off because a lot of wounded were shouting near the city and they couldn't sleep properly, but this is another matter. But the list of births was the main reason, at least from my pov.

 

 

2. Eyes and years.

The WT is behind on info about everything. The end of the world is at their door, and they have no plan to close/seal the Bore, info about Rand, the Bore itself, Callandor, all the prophecies involved(they don't know that Mat and Perrin are also in the prophecies, which is a major slip up), etc.

And since Travelling, the old eyes and ears system is totally outdated.

The WT is somewhere in the middle of the Randland. Sending a message to the Borderlands for instance can take days/weeks, then they have to wait for the spy to actually find out the info they need(which are mostly rumors), and days again to receive the answer/rumor.

It's a lot easier to just sent someone by Traveling there in a matter of minutes/hours, asses the situation, and if possible/needed, already solve the problem.

One Asha'man travelling from Marador each day was all the eyes and ears and hands and feed Rand needed in that area.

 

 

 

 

 

4. The importance of the Borderlands.

Most of the Randlands(except BL) have no experience what so ever in fighting Shadowspawn, or don't even know they exist(tales to scare little children).

The BL are the only regions with experienced commanders in fighting Trollocs, and their towers and heavily fortified forts(every city/village has some sort of defense)are an excellent place to mount a massive defense.

If the BL are wiped out there will not be any place where they can stop the Trolloc advance, except several major cities, which don't have the space to protect not even 10% of the rest of the population that have no defense or a wooden wall that will fall even if a Myrdrall will sneeze near it.

Since the Green Ajar are supposed to be the Battle Ajah, and the WT are supposed to be the first line of defense against the Shadow, and the leaders of that fight, they should have a massive presence along the BL, which they don't.

 

 

 

 

 

6(and final, thank the Creator). What the present Amyrlin should change:

-better AS presence in the BL. If not to fight(although they should do that), at least to take the non-combatants from danger zones via gateways. They have the time to do this and still go to that meeting at the FoM.

-the Green Ajah at least should have a massive presence on the BL

-use AS with Traveling capabilities as eyes-and-years will allow the WT to have the latest news as soon as possible, and will know to recognize the facts from the rumors they usually receive.

-Better use for the Ajahs. Browns should stop hording knowledge for themselves and create schools, yellows hospitals, blues should handdle the requests the WT receives from the general population, the Red should find something else to do and keep a small number to deal with men who can channel that are out of control(unless the BT will take up that job). These are for the future, so they are of small import, but I thought I should put it out there.

-the Green Ajah should have a more active role in the BL, should learn to cooperate with soldiers better, and should have captains from the BL teaching them battle tactics, even in the WT. I don't understand why all the teachers have to be AS...

 

They should limit the influence they have on the rulers of the world, and stop beating them, blackmailing, kidnapping them and so on.

-there should be an ambassador for each faction of the WO, AM, BT and from each country that will have to be present to every meeting of the Hall of the WT. In return every other faction will receive an AS ambassador, and each country have an AS adviser(that will not be allow to spank the ruler in question if he somehow steps on her toes...just advise).

 

Since the fiasco with the Seachan raid on the WT, lack of experience in battle tactics, fighting shadowspawn, they should understand that it will be in everybody's best interests if they leave the commanding to able captains and help when needed, or follow the commands of the Captains in battle, not the other way around.

 

 

The WT person to deal with Rand should be somebody that has a clear mind. Not in love with the guy, like Elayne, but not the present Amyrlin, who still thinks he's insane, retarded, childish, etc.

 

And another thing about the BL. Even after the Bore will be sealed, the shadowspawn will still be there. So it will be best if they manage to keep them in check by using the huge fortifications of the BL, and not let them run free all over the map. Only the Seachan homeworld will escape, until the dreadlords find a working Waygate to that place(and since they have Ogier Gardeners, and so Steddings, it's safe to conclude that they exist).

Even with the DR, there is still the chance they'll fail, and if the BL are already KO, untill they'll find a plan to defeat the Shadow, there won't be anything to save.

 

 

Sorry for the huge post, but since it might be my last one(my first question :)), I thought I should make it count. Peace favor your keyboard.

[yoniy0]

Okay, before I begin my reply, please take more care to organize posts that long, including chapters and sub-chapters, preferably with visible titles. It's really the only way someone could easily tackle such posts.

 

Now, to business:

But the list of births was the main reason, at least from my pov.

Reread NStN. The sisters didn't collect any names. The Accepted did that.

 

Indeed, it is not allowed.

Why?

[...]

3. Rate the channellers 'cool factor'

[...]

5. The WT and it's policies.

[...]

but since it might be my last one

Okay, first, not understanding the reason for our directives doesn't give you the right to ignore them. Since you're obviously aware that we've asked posters here to stay on topic and refrain from exactly this sort of thing, that's even more inappropriate. Your last remark makes me suspect that you knew as much.

Second, the reason is that the thread was getting hijacked for topics that have little to do with it, and in this case topics that have been responsible for many a threadjack in the past, to the point that we had to forbid any discussion of them outside certain threads.

 

6(and final, thank the Creator). What the present Amyrlin should change:

See, now that's relevant. I don't completely agree, though, for reasons @avernite mentions above.

[Suttree]

Green Ajah. The Battle Ajah. lol. lol again. They put out a fight for like five minutes against 200 Seachan soldiers and 50 damane. They probably have to see a picture of a Trolloc to know how one looks like, and will probably blow up any Ogier they see because they think they are Shadowspawn.

Visiting the BL once or twice every century will also help, and I hope they know more battle tactics than the things they can find in a book.

 

-the Green Ajah should have a more active role in the BL, should learn to cooperate with soldiers better, and should have captains from the BL teaching them battle tactics, even in the WT. I don't understand why all the teachers have to be AS...

 

 

Since the fiasco with the Seachan raid on the WT, lack of experience in battle tactics, fighting shadowspawn, they should understand that it will be in everybody's best interests if they leave the commanding to able captains and help when needed, or follow the commands of the Captains in battle, not the other way around.

 

All of this is not a fair representation off the skills Green's actually have. First of the Seanchan sneak attack can not be used to judge how they will fight in an actual battle. It was a raid in the dead of night, in a place of supposed safety and made on a tower that was split, under Fains influence and riddled with Forsaken and BA. There will never be a set of circumstances like that again...ever.

 

As for saying they need BL to teach them tactics recall the scene where Mat was very impressed and lauded Joline's knowledge of tactics/warfare. Seeing as how he is the world's foremost expert I think it's safe to accept his pov on the subject. That combined with Cads defense during the cleansing & the AS holding off the Shaido highlights they have very solid skills. The Trolloc Wars were the height of military achievement and you can guarantee they are well documented in the WT. What could the BL's possibly add that would help channelers in battle? They would use diff tactics entirely, if anything it's the AS who would know how to integrate into banners as they did so successfully during the TW.

 

As for lack of experience against shadowspawn this is simply not true. We know sisters like Kiruna are very accomplished fighting them and the BWB has this to say...

Their primary goal is to hold themselves ready for Tarmon Gai'don, the Last Battle with the Dark One. Fierce fighters of Shadowspawn, they are also known for their appreciation of men, a trait fairly rare among the other Ajahs.

 

If I had to guess I would say they are in for some serious redemption come TG...

[Xcorpyo001]

My 2 cents:

 

If the world is indeed as RJ said, IE the light needs a knockout blow to win, there's really only two things to do, knowing that Rand will start the Last Battle in a month: preserve resources, and tap untapped resources. Those Aes Sedai can be deployed effectively in one fell swoop, or they can be dispersed and destroyed. As Maradon and Rand's reaction showed, it's POSSIBLE to achieve a local victory, but the cost is high. Does the Light really care if the Trollocs are stopped in Kandor or in Illian, if going for the former option means Rand can't hit Shayol Ghul?

 

 

Dispersing among the Borderlands (and everywhere, really) made sense when the Seanchan were no big threat yet and the Dragon was found: get critical battle experience or influence among the people for the inevitable onslaught, then withdraw for that one, decisive push (admittedly, lack of travelling might have made it less useful). Dispersing the Aes Sedai now will result, probably, in horrendous casualties as they get thrown straight into the steamroller of the Dark. This WILL happen for that final push, but if that push only needs a victory at Shayol Ghul or Tarwin's gap, suffer the losses there rather than chasing trollocs through Kandor.

 

 

I don't agree with your statement, sorry. They have weeks to do something rather than wait in the tower, at least save the non-combatants with gateways, use AS with gateways to assess the situation rather than wait for weeks to hear rumors from their spies, fight Trollock in places they are in less numbers, etc, and still be in time for the pissing contest between Rand and Egwene. That will at least limit the casualties, if they are to important to be harmed fighting alongside other men.

And they plan to stop Rand from going to TG/SG(or go there without a plan), so according to them, they will have to wait maybe for months before Rand will have a plan they actually approve.

Or do they plan to make a raid on SG and just wait there until they have some idea on what to do?!?

 

Oh. Let's throw something else in the mix. Egwene is at FoM with most of her troops and a part of her AS, enough for the raid. They find out that the WT is raided by Seachan/Trollocs. Do you really think they'll just sit around and do nothing, because they have to put everything in the final battle?

No, they'll be there in a heartbeat. And Tar Valon is not more important than the fate of the world or several BL countries.

 

 

@Sutree.

A sneak attack is not proof? So dreadlords and the last Forsaken will never consider using sneak attacks and take them unprepared?!? They will just send invitations with the date of the next raid? Which will be during the day, of course, as stated in the "The polite way to attack AS" handbook? Good to know.

Fain's influence? the guy took his dagger and just left.

Riddled with Forsaken and BA? Just one Chosen(we saw her worth) and the BA was probably fighting the Seachan, since I don't think they wanted that a'dam on her neck and they were still undercover(Egwene does the (partial)clean-up later).

 

Joline seems to know something, but MAt went with his plans anyway. Cadsuade is ok, but let's see how she'll clash with Egwene(I can hardly wait for that meeting). But compared with DW(where 40 AS fought 40k soldiers and 200 channellers), the GJ was non-existent against 50 channellers and 250 soldiers.

 

Not being prepared is not an excuse. And they will never be prepared if they don't get some first hand experience in the BL.

They also know that there is a chance the Seachan have travelling, but they never though about it since. So the Seachan will once again have the element of surprise.

[Dewairah]

She's told "the Borderlands are under attack". They're a big place, there's lots of places for them to be attacked. So she gathers more information. Seems pretty rational to me.

 

 

This is the WT's MO. We have good examples of what it leads to: manetheran, malkier, etc.

[Xcorpyo001]

She's told "the Borderlands are under attack". They're a big place, there's lots of places for them to be attacked. So she gathers more information. Seems pretty rational to me.

 

 

This is the WT's MO. We have good examples of what it leads to: manetheran, malkier, etc.

 

 

True(unfortunately.)

And Lacanos, they told her the BL are overrun, not attacked. It's a little different, don't you think?

English is my third language, but I still think overrun is a bad thing. I got some help.

a (1) : to defeat decisively and occupy the positions of (2) : to invade and occupy or ravage

b : to spread or swarm over : infest

2

a : to run or go beyond or past <the plane overran the runway>

 

This sounds bad.

 

How I saw it played in my mind(I will exaggerate a bit for a greater effect...ok, I will exaggerate a lot):

AS: Mother, the BL have been overrun.

Mother: Aham. I think I need more sugar for my tea.

AS: Also, we can see the sun from the Hall.

Mother: OMG. We totally have to check that out!!! But first, I have to empty Illian of all the troops. I don't want Demandred to kill some of them when he'll invade.

[yoniy0]

Oookay. It seems this topic is too close to Egwene and AS not to be threadjacked. I believe we've all had our chance to say our piece.

 

This thread is now locked.