Rand and Lanfear's Soul Connection

[Southpaw89]

Im assuming he recognized her from when he saw her in Fal Dara

[herid]

Im assuming he recognized her from when he saw her in Fal Dara

Siuan's appearance changed greatly after she was stilled. Nobody could recognize her after that which was frequently mentioned. Rand himself didn't recognize her when he was spying on Egwene and the Wise Ones meeting the Aes Sedai in TAR when Egwene was summoned to Salidar.

Yet, he recognized her after one look into her eyes when he came to the Tower in ToM.

[Elysium]

When I read the scene with Lanfear that started this post, I assumed Rand was walking from his own mind into that of Moridin's (somehow). Lanfear and Moggy are mindtrapped, which would explain Lanfear's presence there (whether intended by Ishy or not is up for debate). Could it not be that Rand recognized her soul because of that connection?

 

Thoughts?

It seems really unlikely to me that "he" (of "he has me") is Moridin. I can see it being the Dark One, or a DO proxy like Shaidar Haran, or Fain. Moridin is many things, but he isn't the shadow that dwells in every man's mind. Also, we've had POVs from Cyndane and Moghedien since their mindtrapping, and there's no indication at all that the mindtrap dispenses the kind of torture Cyndane seems to be undergoing in this scene.

 

I think there is a misunderstanding here. First, I am not saying that the "he" is Moridin; I rather agree that this is probably Shaidar Haran (assuming that this is not just a script, part of a trap). Second, I am not suggesting that the mindtrap is "dispensing" torture. What I was suggesting is that the mindtrap creates a link between the "owner" and the "owned." I think we have at least seen hints of that. The torture she is undergoing would be something that Moridin is aware of, either consciously, or unconsciously (via the link).

 

I hope that clears up what I meant.

[Elysium]

I really only skimmed the responses to this post, but I didn't see anyone put this idea forward, so let me be the one to do it. When I read the scene with Lanfear that started this post, I assumed Rand was walking from his own mind into that of Moridin's (somehow). Lanfear and Moggy are mindtrapped, which would explain Lanfear's presence there (whether intended by Ishy or not is up for debate). Could it not be that Rand recognized her soul because of that connection?

 

Thoughts?

This has been suggested before but I don't see why it would matter.

Rand didn't know about the link (at least he didn't understand it) and he certainly didn't know about the mindtrap. Yet, he thought that he could recognize Lanfear's soul and didn't find the mere act impossible or strange somehow. Why not? Why would he even think that he could recognize her soul? He is surprised to find out that it's her but he is not surprised that he could do it.

 

It also doesn't explain how Rand recognized Siuan when he came to the Tower. There were no mindtraps or links with Moridin involved in that one.

 

Thanks for the counterpoint. I liked your thoughts at first, but I don't think they are airtight here. First, we can't say that Rand "didn't find the mere act impossible or strange." It simply wasn't commented on. Rand recognized here with a certainty and went with it. Who knows, maybe he spent the next ten -off air- minutes pondering how he knew that. Also, you said that he didn't understand the link; I am under the impression that his lack of understanding was pre-VoG. Who knows what he realizes about it now?

 

You are right though in that this doesn't explain the Siuan situation; I would counter though, and say that I am not convinced that the situations are the same. Knowing who Siuan is without the ageless "mask" is intriguing, but that seems a far cry from seeing Lanfear in a Cyndane suit. I am not convinced that we are talking apples to apples here.

 

Interestingly, what stood out to me in his conversation with Siuan was not that he recognized her, but that he recognized Gareth Bryne (whom he saw once in Andor? Or did he?), and that he knew that Gareth was bonded by Siuan. Had he not done this, I would have said that the recognition of Siuan was just bad writing. But even with this, I am not convinced that these are the same situation. Maybe there are two things going on here.

[Kahsm]

Thanks for the counterpoint. I liked your thoughts at first, but I don't think they are airtight here. First, we can't say that Rand "didn't find the mere act impossible or strange." It simply wasn't commented on. Rand recognized here with a certainty and went with it. Who knows, maybe he spent the next ten -off air- minutes pondering how he knew that. Also, you said that he didn't understand the link; I am under the impression that his lack of understanding was pre-VoG. Who knows what he realizes about it now?

 

You are right though in that this doesn't explain the Siuan situation; I would counter though, and say that I am not convinced that the situations are the same. Knowing who Siuan is without the ageless "mask" is intriguing, but that seems a far cry from seeing Lanfear in a Cyndane suit. I am not convinced that we are talking apples to apples here.

 

Interestingly, what stood out to me in his conversation with Siuan was not that he recognized her, but that he recognized Gareth Bryne (whom he saw once in Andor? Or did he?), and that he knew that Gareth was bonded by Siuan. Had he not done this, I would have said that the recognition of Siuan was just bad writing. But even with this, I am not convinced that these are the same situation. Maybe there are two things going on here.

 

I didn't catch that he knew about the bond. They didn't have bonding in the AoL, so LTT couldn't have had any hints on how people act when bonded, or a weave or trick to detect it or anything like that. That seems rather odd...?

 

I guess he is like Neo from The Matrix, except instead of seeing the code, he reads the threads of the pattern directly. No one can hide anything from him.

 

And I'm sure there are some dragonsworn around here who believe that.

[Jemlin]

"The Eyes are the window to the soul". That's a common expression we seem to have, and both hold sway in both the case of Mierin and Siuan.

 

I think the two are connected, but perhaps in a balancing factor. She is the Daughter of the Night, who seeks power. He is the bringing of the Sun/Light, who sacrifices power. Some other oppositions were pointed out.

 

I don't think she will be brought to traditional redemption. I never viewed her as truly a "darkfriend", because it seems she is less "dark" minded and more "power" minded. She would betray anyone for power. If she's being tortured constantly, she is on the cusp to betray the Dark One in any fashion, and that is a valuable tool for the Dragon.