The Trinity

[Puny]

We are constantly told that ta´veren is the Wheel weaving some lifethreads around that person for a special purpose. The Creator created the world and wheel and then said he would not take any part in it and left. The Dark One is a real influence, trying to break the Wheel and increase his influence on the world.

 

But I don´t understand... if the Creator isn´t taking part, then whose will is it that the ta´veren is spun out to change things? Is it the Creator through the Wheel and Pattern. Or does the Wheel have it´s own will.. and can that will be independent to the Dark One and the Creator? What does the Wheel want... to restore balance? How is that possible when there is imbalance build in the system between the Creator and Dark One? (If Creator wins once we are safe until next time, if Dark One wins once, we are eternally doomed)

[Sid]

My understanding of this:

 

Ta'veren are created by the Wheel, which is an auto-correcting mechanism more complicated than any computer. Ta'veren are the self-correcting parts. The best I can figure, what the Wheel wills is to continue to exist, which is how the Creator created it. The DO opposes this and the Creator apparently doesn't do anything to oppose him/her/it, so there are no darkfriend ta'veren (as RJ said in an interview). It doesn't necessarily want to 'restore balance', but it ends up being that way because the DO tries to interfere with its prime objective, existence. Thus far, over countless millenia the Wheel is still going despite the DO's best efforts. Moridin may just be wrong about the DO's chances, with his victory less inevitable than is thought.

[Puny]

My understanding of this:

 

Ta'veren are created by the Wheel, which is an auto-correcting mechanism more complicated than any computer. Ta'veren are the self-correcting parts. The best I can figure, what the Wheel wills is to continue to exist, which is how the Creator created it. The DO opposes this and the Creator apparently doesn't do anything to oppose him/her/it, so there are no darkfriend ta'veren (as RJ said in an interview). It doesn't necessarily want to 'restore balance', but it ends up being that way because the DO tries to interfere with its prime objective, existence. Thus far, over countless millenia the Wheel is still going despite the DO's best efforts. Moridin may just be wrong about the DO's chances, with his victory less inevitable than is thought.

 

Oki... the ta´veren are self-correcting mechanisms allowing the Wheel to continue on. So the Wheels only will, is to continue to exist. The Do tries to stop the wheel therefor the Wheel spins out ta´veren to correct the balance and thus allow it to keep turning. But.. if that is so, why couldn´t the Wheel just spin out the Dragonsoul with all the ta´veren that it has made over the Ages and fix the DO once and for all, thus it could keep on existing undisturbed without "fear" of it´s existence being threatened Age after Age by the Dark One?

[Sid]

 

Oki... the ta´veren are self-correcting mechanisms allowing the Wheel to continue on. So the Wheels only will, is to continue to exist. The Do tries to stop the wheel therefor the Wheel spins out ta´veren to correct the balance and thus allow it to keep turning. But.. if that is so, why couldn´t the Wheel just spin out the Dragonsoul with all the ta´veren that it has made over the Ages and fix the DO once and for all, thus it could keep on existing undisturbed without "fear" of it´s existence being threatened Age after Age by the Dark One?

It might be that this age is the result of the Wheel bringing all of its influence to bear in combating the DO, and that is why it's possible that he's essentially out of the picture until the AoL next time around. It also could be that the Wheel is programmed to do only just enough to continue to exist each turning. i.e. if the DO pushes, the Wheel pushes back the same amount.

 

I'm not sure anyone knows the true nature of the DO. I doubt that something even the Creator made could permanently free itself from the DO's influence no matter what it did without the Creator actively taking part. All the Ta'veren and heroic souls in the world working together at once probably couldn't do it. If it did happen, time would hardly be cyclical anymore without a player as big as the DO involved.

 

That's just my opinion I guess.

[Kaju]

The way I understood it is that the wheels will is not just to exist but that it has a specific path it wants things to go. It doesn't care about the details but it wants the major points to be the same upon every turning of the wheel. In my opinion the ta'veren is the wheel's mechanism to compensate for the compounding effects of everyones "free will" (as well as outside influences, ie the DO) to prevent the pattern to over time become completely warped from its original design. Ta'veren are spun out to snap threads back together according to the original design.

[WhiskyJack]

My understanding of this:

 

Ta'veren are created by the Wheel, which is an auto-correcting mechanism more complicated than any computer. Ta'veren are the self-correcting parts. The best I can figure, what the Wheel wills is to continue to exist, which is how the Creator created it. The DO opposes this and the Creator apparently doesn't do anything to oppose him/her/it, so there are no darkfriend ta'veren (as RJ said in an interview). It doesn't necessarily want to 'restore balance', but it ends up being that way because the DO tries to interfere with its prime objective, existence. Thus far, over countless millenia the Wheel is still going despite the DO's best efforts. Moridin may just be wrong about the DO's chances, with his victory less inevitable than is thought.

 

Oki... the ta´veren are self-correcting mechanisms allowing the Wheel to continue on. So the Wheels only will, is to continue to exist. The Do tries to stop the wheel therefor the Wheel spins out ta´veren to correct the balance and thus allow it to keep turning. But.. if that is so, why couldn´t the Wheel just spin out the Dragonsoul with all the ta´veren that it has made over the Ages and fix the DO once and for all, thus it could keep on existing undisturbed without "fear" of it´s existence being threatened Age after Age by the Dark One?

 

 

Wheel's existence is truly threatened by people itself. There is no final solution for that.

[Gordar]

If I remember correctly RJ has said that this 3rd age is no different from any other 3rd age (I'll leave the quoting to someone else). This, according to me, means that this age is exactly the way it should be, but this age could have never become what it is today if the DO had not influenced it.

 

The creator somehow tricked the DO & put him outside of the pattern, knowing that the DO would try to break free. He used this knowledge and created a point (or maybe multiple points) in time where everything is reset (or maybe he made the DO & let him believe that he's te equal of the creator, even though this is not true, or...).

 

At the end of the AOL humanity has reached a certain stage of development, but for the pattern a much lower state of development was needed/required. It's very unlikely the pattern would have managed to achieve this without the help of an external force. So, the pattern allows the only & biggest anti-ta'veren (the DO, although I'm not sure if he could be called an anti- ta'veren, since ta'veren are still part of the pattern & the DO isn't) to influence it.

 

Since the DO is a rather unreliable force & will try new tricks every time he manages to push a finger through the pattern, the pattern then needs to correct itself every now & then. It does this by making people ta'veren. Once they're no longer needed, they simply stop being ta'veren.

 

So, why doesn't the pattern shut out the DO forever? Simply because the pattern needs the DO to achieve that which it cannot achieve by itself (a lower state of development).

[mb]

I guess you were referring to that comment in Eye of World.

I guess it meant that He (or possibly She) would not directly interfere. Tarmon Gaidon might be an exception.