Aes Sedai used as weapons...

[One Man]

I've looked and looked, here and elsewhere, but can't find an answer to a little question that popped into my head while reading CoT. How is it possible for an Aes Sedai, collared as damane but sworn on the Oaths, to be used to kill with the OP?

 

The a'dam seems to only be able to cause extreme discomfort/pain to the collared, and enables the bearer to control the flows. Wouldn't the Three Oaths prevent the Aes Sedai from embracing the Source at all if she knows it's about to be used to kill non-Shadowspawn? And whatever means of torture are used by the sul'dam to force the Aes Sedai's hand, it doesn't seem even torture could make an AS break an Oath. What's more, wouldn't it be to the Aes Sedai's benefit to fix it in her mind that there is no way to weasel around the Oaths in this way, being used as a tool to kill and not actually doing the killing, rendering herself essentially useless as a weapon.

 

So...how the hell is it possible? If it's been asked and answered (which I don't doubt at all) I apologize. Thanks!

[ahk]

wow, i think ur right!!! especially since, in New Spring (novel) the Oaths and their effects are descrived in such a way that they are completely unbreakable.

 

This must be one of those little things that ur supposed to overlook. I guess in this case u just gotta bear with RJ's inventiveness (he /has/ created a whole world in such detail...)

[One Man]

yeah...I was just wondering if RJ had covered this yet. I mean, all an Aes Sedai has to do is think "Letting them use my ability to kill is tantamount to doing it myself" and she's totally useless. Sure, the Seanchan might kill her on the spot if she's able to defy them in this way, but they also might just use her to warm their tea if she can't kill their enemies. A tea-warmer is better than a killer, in an Aes Sedai's book.

 

Also, I can't remember at the moment if there have been times in the series when we actually see an Aes Sedai bound by the Oaths being used to kill. Have we actually seen or heard of them being used to kill yet? If not (perhaps the Seanchan just haven't had the chance to put them on the field of battle yet) I think RJ may be cooking up a little surprise for the Seanchan in AMoL. "Damane, go kill that guy!" And, oops! They find out it just ain't possible...or something.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Being captured as damane and collared with the a'dam does not free any Aes Sedai from the Oaths. Nor is the "I'm just being used as a tool" loophole applicable. Allow me to quote RJ:

 

Question: Just how can an Aes Sedai be a damane? Aren't they bound by the Third Oath: to not use the One Power as a weapon except to defend their lives, their Warder's life, or another sister's life? Wouldn't they be useless as damane to the Seanchan?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Aes Sedai captured by the Seanchan are indeed useless as weapons, except against Shadowspawn or Darkfriends, because they are bound by the Three Oaths, and that limits their value considerably since being weapons is a major use for damane. Damane are used for other tasks, however, including finding ores for mining (Egwene was tested for this, remember; it's a very valuable, and fairly rare, ability), for some mining operations where it would be too dangerous or uneconomical to use human miners (bringing ores out of the ground and refining them using the Power), and in some construction projects, especially where something very large or with a need for added strength is envisioned. The first two both require a high ability in Earth, which has faded considerably on "this" side of the Aryth Ocean and to a smaller degree of the other side, but construction projects and others things, such as producing Sky Lights, are well within the abilities of collared Aes Sedai. The Three Oaths don't inhibit them there at all.

 

from Tor's Questions of the Week, Questions from August 17th, 2004 - January 25th, 2005, Question 21, link here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

 

So, as you can see, those Aes Sedai who become damane cannot become weapons in any way that they could not be before they were captured. But there is alot of value in what they are still able to do. A perfect example is Mylen, the damane formerly known as Sheraine Sedai, who was trained by Tuon herself. Allow me to quote again:

 

(Furyk Karede's POV)

 

He had considered using another damane than Mylen. The tiny woman with the face he could never put an age to almost bounced in her saddle with eagerness to lay eyes on the High Lady again. She was not properly composed. Still, she could do nothing without Melteine [the sul'dam], and she was useless as a weapon [emphasis added], a fact which made her hang her head when he pointed it out to the der'sul'dam. She had needed consoling, her sul'dam petting her and telling her what beautiful Sky Lights she made, how wonderful her Healing was.

 

(Knife of Dreams, chapter 36 Under an Oak, p.728)

 

I hope that helps.

[One Man]

Ohh, awesome! Thanks so much, Robert. Ha...so much for RJ's little surprise. It would have been rather superfluous in the final book, anyhow.:P

 

Also, what's the best method for tracking down whether a question has been asked and answered? Using a search function, or poring over the FAQ continuously? Or did you just remember the question had been asked?:P

[RobertAlexWillis]

Ah, I just browse through, and if something catches my eye, I talk about it ... I'm not really sure how everyone else does it.

 

I have read the entire series straight through 5 times, but if you include going back and reading individual books over, I'm probably close to 20 (with greater repetition on the earlier books, obviously). So, when I see something, it might spark a memory. And, conveniently, my bookselves are next to my computer ...

[Guest cwestervelt]

There was also another section where they were thinking about how they tried to make a collared Aes Sedai (Pura I think) say the sky was green or some such thing. Between the Sul'dam trying to force her and the Oath locking down, it near to killed her.

 

The true problem with using an Aes Sedai damane as a weapon is the Sul'dam. If they put the Sul'dam, damane pairs up front, like Kiruna did against orders at Dumai's Wells, problem is solved. Since the Sul'dam are spineless cowards only capable of taking on beating completely defenseless people, it isn't going to happen though.

[saffer_shani]

I don't have my books with me now, but weren't there Aes Sedai used at Falme?

[Guest cwestervelt]

They were captured and broken at Falme. They weren't used there.