a couple of basic questions on Song of Ice and Fire (no spoilers please)

[IMeMin]

I was wondering:

 

1. I've never read any of ASOIAF, but I'm intrigued. Are the books self-contained, or if I finish Book 1, will there be a huge "to be continued", forcing me to keep going and then eventually wait until 2019 or whenever for Martin to finish the series?

 

2. There seems to be a absolute ton of interest in ASOIAF on these boards, just based on my two weeks of moderate browsing around. Is there some connection, were Jordan and Martin close friends or something? Or is just that well known a series (that I just didn't know about until now?)

 

Anyway mostly just asking out of curiosity. I'm not sure I want to commit to 3500 more pages of anything, but I have this feeling it's likely I'll at least start the first one sometime this year or something.

 

As a side note I suppose I ought to mention that I'm currently in the middle of Book 1 of...um...um...the Sword of Truth. I'm enjoying it enough that I'm sure I'll finish Book One, but as I understand it, these are self-contained, and from everything I've read online on Terry Goodkind and his Ayn Rand politics, I'm pretty sure one will be enough, just wanted to satisfy my curiosity and all.

[Kadere]

1. They're pretty self contained. It is a series, but each book has it's arch. You could finish the first book and not move on to the second and be satisfied, but like any series you'll hopefully be intrigued enough to continue. Like TEotW is pretty self-contained, but you'll probably move on to TGH if you liked it. The first three books of ASoIaF (A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords) work rather well as a contained trilogy. If you stopped after ASoS you'd be at a good resting place. None of the books end on giant cliff-hangers.

 

2. When AGoT came out Robert Jordan reviewed it and it got a cover blurb from him, "A Game of Thrones grabs hold and won't let go. It's brilliant." Robert Jordan. They did know each other, but they weren't close friends. Within a lot of fantasy circles you're going to hear about ASoIaF. Lots of people consider it the best fantasy series published today. It's a pretty well known series. Book 4 (A Feast for Crows) was a number 1 best seller. The series is being made into an HBO series which premiere April 17. If you google it you'll find a bunch of stuff, including the website westeros.org, that are fans web pages about it. Basically, yes it's very well known and you should definitely try it.

 

As a disclaimer it's a very adult series. If WoT is PG-13, then ASoIaF is hard R. It's full of sex, graphic violence, incest, brutal betrayals, etc. Basically it's not you're grandpa's fantasy ;)

 

You'll also find a lot of people on this site who hate, and I mean hate in the most serious sense of the word, Terry Goodkind and the Sword of Truth series. I frankly thought it was fun, it's no ASoIaF though.

[hotpocket2006]

1. All of them but book 4, A Feast for Crows, are pretty self contained. Feast does end with a couple of major cliffhangers, so I am eagerly waiting those being resolved ^^

 

2. Basically from what I understand, they were just two people who wrote wonderful fantasy series. ASoIaF is my favorite series and I didn't read WoT, and actually hadn't heard of WoT, until I was finished with the 4 ASoIaF books.

 

While I don't hate the Sword of Truth series, I only made it until like book 4 before I was fed up with it. I enjoyed the first book, but after that I think it was just more of the same. I might go back and finish it because I just don't like not finishing stuff I start, but if I don't I won't be upset.

 

Kadere is right, it is a very mature series, but that is why I lurv it!! I have also got a lot of friends hooked on this series. So while the series is not finished yet, I definitely think it would be worth your while to read them. Then again I am pretty biased

[Werthead]

1. I've never read any of ASOIAF, but I'm intrigued. Are the books self-contained, or if I finish Book 1, will there be a huge "to be continued", forcing me to keep going and then eventually wait until 2019 or whenever for Martin to finish the series?

 

I'd say that the first three books are one entity. In fact, GRRM's original plan was to make Books 1-3 one trilogy followed by a sequel trilogy set five years later, but scrapped that idea and began Book 4 immediately after 3. But because of that plan you can still read Books 1-3 as a single story and pause there and wait for at least Book 5 to come out in July before reading the next two (Book 4 has some huge cliffhangers).

 

I'd say that Books 1-3 and 4 as separate entities are less self-contained than either the early WoT books or the Malazan ones.

 

2. There seems to be a absolute ton of interest in ASOIAF on these boards, just based on my two weeks of moderate browsing around. Is there some connection, were Jordan and Martin close friends or something? Or is just that well known a series (that I just didn't know about until now?)

 

Jordan gave Martin's book a cover quote which Martin says boosted sales. Jordan's name also drove sales of LEGENDS, a 1998 short story collection which contained the original version of NEW SPRING as well as GRRM's THE HEDGE KNIGHT. According to Martin, most people picked up the book for the Jordan story, also read his and enjoyed it, and started A GAME OF THRONES.

 

Jordan and Martin later met at several conventions. They weren't best buddies, but fellow writing friends and email contacts. At one convention appearance they played a trick on the audience with Martin telling them that the reason A FEAST FOR CROWS was taking so long was because he was also finishing off THE WHEEL OF TIME, then Jordan appeared on stage, looking aggrieved

 

Martin on Jordan:

 

Jim was a good and gracious man, a pleasure to share a platform or a pint with, and his contributions to modern fantasy were many. His huge, ambitious WHEEL OF TIME series helped to redefine the genre, and opened many doors for the writers who followed.

 

He was also unfailingly generous towards other fantasists, always ready to offer them support and encouragement. My own ICE & FIRE series might never have found its audience without the cover quote that Jim was so kind as to provide, back when A GAME OF THRONES was first published. I will always be grateful to him for that.

 

The last time I saw Jim was at an Archon in Collinsville, Illinois. It was before his final illness. He was the convention Guest of Honor and I was the Toastmaster, and I introduced him by telling the audience that actually we were the same person. It was a gag that Jim himself had suggested in the Green Room beforehand. While I was doing the intro, and claiming credit for all his books, he slowly entered, walked up silently behind me, and stood looming over me, glowering like Zeus. We got a great laugh.

 

I had some great dinners with Jim and his wife Harriet there in Collinsville as well. We talked about other writers, editors, publishers, all the stuff that writers always talk about... oh, and a little about our own series as well... and Jim and Harriet invited me to visit them if I ever made it down to Charleston. Sad to say, I never did.

 

Jordan on Martin:

 

For Jesse, George Martin and I know each other to the extent that we'll have a beer together when we run into one another, or dinner maybe. I like his books. His style is very different from mine, but I don't go around looking for people who write the way I do. Oh, yes. George is a good guy. I like him as well as his books.

 

Anyway mostly just asking out of curiosity. I'm not sure I want to commit to 3500 more pages of anything, but I have this feeling it's likely I'll at least start the first one sometime this year or something.

 

Are you planning on watching the TV show beginning in April?

[IMeMin]

Thanks for your replies. Based on this I'm still fairly intrigued. My problem is more work schedules and being a bit of a slow reader, and other interests, all make me reluctant to get too involved in a new series. I almost never watch TV, and actually don't have real cable anyway, but even if I did I'd want to read the books before seeing the adaptation.

 

But if it's a more mature series, all the better. I'm interested in PG and PG-13 style fantasy, but I've already read some of that. Something a little R-rated might just be appealing just for the difference. I'd already picked up it was described as cynical or depressing or "hard" or things to that effect. Besides which I'm 40 years old.

 

On Sword of Truth, I had no less than three people (that I barely knew) mention that series to me when they saw I was reading a Wheel of Time book, but 2 out of 3 said that it's just best to read the early ones. Then I came to these boards and discovered a serious anti-SOT vibe, although many seem to defend it somewhat. I of course just had to find out for myself, so I read about 50 pages of Wizards' First Rule, was actually quite impressed, then I discovered online that Goodkind tends to get into preaching political stuff that I really have very little interest in. I'm now about 250 pages into it and I'm still impressed with the story, but I'm not so blown away that I feel a need to read multiple SOT books, just the one is the plan I think. Maybe 2 or 3, you never know, depending on how much I like the rest of WFR.

 

So anyway this sounds like mostly good news. I'm probably saving the better series for later, and it sounds like you can read ASOIAF one at a time, if you know what I mean. Now, if only had more time to read. Well, what can you do...

[csarmi]

It's a total waste of time.

First book is closed enough, the rest, well, all of them ends with a few big cliffhangers IMO and yes you'll wait forever, I suppose.

[Elend]

Now is a good time to begin as the publisher has finally issued a release date for the latest book.

 

ASoIaF does have a small tribute to Jordan within it, in I believe the Dornish House Jordayn on the River Tor. I don't know much about their relationship other than they knew of each other and had read each other's works (at least to an extent).

 

In terms of the books, and how good they are, I love them. But I find it difficult to read the series straight through. Unlike, say, WoT. I've been on my re-read of it for about five months or so. Currently in early A Storm of Swords and now gotta kick it up since Dance will be out July 12. Just don't expect much epic magical stuff and... well, people die. Let's just leave it at that. People die.

 

As far as Goodkind goes, a lot of the hate comes from the relationship he may have had with Jordan. Jordan, as I understand it, didn't think very much of the man and a lot of people feel much of the former's ideas come from the early WoT books. And then Goodkind proclaims he doesn't write fantasy. But if you wanna see the really virulent anti-Goodkind faction, go visit Westeros.org's literature section. Avoid the main forums though, as they will have plenty of Ice and Fire spoilers. Dragonmount's Writer's Guild also really, really likes to mock Goodkind in its private threads.

 

And the evil chicken likely contributes to the Goodkind hate. Noble goats, too.

[Werthead]

There's a couple of tributes. Lord Trebor Jordayne rules his lands from a castle called The Tor, in Dorne, and his sigil is an inkwell. He hasn't appeared in the books yet, though his son showed up amongst Prince Oberyn's retinue in A STORM OF SWORDS, if I recall correctly. In A FEAST FOR CROWS another character mentions, "Archmaester Rigney, who theorised that time was a wheel."

 

Martin also has tributes to Jack Vance, Mervyn Peake, Tad Williams, Roger Zelazny, Gardner Dozois and quite a few other authors and fantasy characters in the series as well.

 

On the other issue, Jordan and Goodkind didn't appear to like one another very much. When people asked Jordan if he and Goodkind had shared ideas, he said he'd never talked to the guy, then suggested they check out the publication dates on the relevant WoT and SoT books where ideas appear to have been 'shared'. Goodkind pretty much put the boot into everyone else writing fantasy apart from him, and WoT would have been included in that. He was particularly disparaging about 'worldbuilding' and 'magic systems', of course the two things that Jordan gets praised for a lot.

 

The last straw was how Goodkind boasted that he'd been in for an operation and the doctor had told him at length what great health his heart was in. This was just a couple of weeks before Jordan's death and seemed to be a deliberate dig at Jordan, and Jordan's last self-penned blog post was basically an anti-Goodkind diatribe about what a tosser he was.

 

So yeah, there's no love lost between those two fanbases. Goodkind has also had the mickey ripped out of him by Steven Erikson (a character in Book 7 develops a paranoid fear that his chickens are evil and about to kill him, to everyone else's bemusement) and Scott Bakker (whose anti-objectivist rants are truly something to behold). And of course he dislikes GRRM because of the Great Goodkind Reread Project on Westeros.org which really unearthed the mental insanity of the SoT series, and when his webmaster emailed GRRM to complain Martin didn't treat it as a very serious complaint. And now Goodkind fans are in yet another fury because LEGEND OF THE SEEKER got absolutely none of the publicity and excitement that GAME OF THRONES has been getting.

 

It's all a bit silly, to be honest. But also vaguely amusing.