Egwene-Galad-Gawyn love triange not over yet?

[randsc]

I'd be curious to see a reference for that, since I distinctly remember Aviendha being scandalized by the suggestion.

[Alachar]

Thinking about that...

 

The Sul'dam, do they marry?

 

But back on topic,

 

I think nothing is gonna happen between Eg and Galad.

[Auld Manriva]

I have NO idea where someone came up with the idea that Eggs takes on the values and morals of whomever she's hangin' with at the time. That's just preposterous.

 

She never .. that's Not Ever, became comfy with the males in the sweat tent thing. Never agreed with Aiel marriage customs beyond deciding it was their business and not hers. She still views Rand's 3-way as more or less "Bull-in-the-pasture..ish" just for starters. She is still commonly referred to as "the inn keep's daughter from the Two Rivers". Not only referring to her stubbornness but her modesty (or Whatever haters want to call it).

 

Her views on AS, the Oaths and the WT have modified somewhat from earlier naive conversations amongst her, Nyn and Elayne. Wow... now That is what I call easily manipulated or influenced (not).

[moratcorlm]

I have NO idea where someone came up with the idea that Eggs takes on the values and morals of whomever she's hangin' with at the time. That's just preposterous.

Egwene worked very hard at doing what she was about in proper fashion. Studying with the Wise Ones, she wore Aiel clothes; she might even be trying to adopt Aiel customs, for all he knew. It would be like her. But she worked hard at being a proper Aes Sedai all the time, even if she was only one of the Accepted. Aes Sedai usually kept a rein on their tempers, but they never ever gave anything away that they wanted to hide.

It's well borne out by her behavior with the Aes Sedai, as an Accepted and as Amyrlin, and with the Wise Ones.

She still views Rand's 3-way as more or less "Bull-in-the-pasture..ish" just for starters.

She doesn't even know about Rand's relationships with Min or Aviendha.

[randsc]

I have NO idea where someone came up with the idea that Eggs takes on the values and morals of whomever she's hangin' with at the time. That's just preposterous.

 

Actually, it is well established. Not only from our reading, but in a Rand POV. It is one of her defining characteristics. I don't see how you can seriously think otherwise. And, again, we aren't actually talking about "morals and values." We're talking about mores and customs. Not the same thing.

 

She never .. that's Not Ever, became comfy with the males in the sweat tent thing.

 

"Comfy" or not, was she in the sweat tent? Did she allow men to see her naked? Yes. Because she adopted the mores of the Aeil while an apprentice.

 

She still views Rand's 3-way as more or less "Bull-in-the-pasture..ish" just for starters.

 

No, she doesn't. She doesn't even KNOW about Rand's 3-way. Which, the former frat brother in me feels compelled to point out, is actually a 4-way.

 

She is still commonly referred to as "the inn keep's daughter from the Two Rivers". Not only referring to her stubbornness but her modesty (or Whatever haters want to call it).

 

That phrase is consider derogatory, and refers not to neither her stubbornness nor her modesty.

 

Her views on AS, the Oaths and the WT have modified somewhat from earlier naive conversations amongst her, Nyn and Elayne. Wow... now That is what I call easily manipulated or influenced (not).

 

If by, "modified somewhat" you mean, "changed entirely", then yes.

[Luckers]

This seems a strange thing to get heated over, but to degrees you are both right. That Egwene tries to be the best possible form of whatever she attempts doesn't necessarily mean she takes on the morals of those around her blindly--or whole. A bit of that is involved, of course, but its more the form of the thing, the definitive points, that she adopts. So Oaths are pointed out to her to be the defining aspect of an Aes Sedai and she one eighties on their importance. Notice, though, that the attitudes towards recruitment of older novices which is ingrained blood and bone gets left by the wayside. By the same note she starts wearing Aiel clothes when an apprentice, but doesn't take up the practice of cross-gender sweat tents.

 

For Egwene the form of a thing is very important. But that doesn't mean she takes the moral esoterics along with the functional ones.

 

If an idea is phrased in a way that Egwene comes to see the importance of it--yes, she'll adopt it. But it is not blind, and Auld Manriva is correct--Gawyn's reference to her modesty is quite clear, and we've seen as much other times. She would not adopt this simply because people around her are doing it--there would have to be reason, something Egwene would gain in her sense of self-image. This would not happen. Quite the opposite.

[moroten]

Egwene is not morally sound. For reasons that have nothing to do with what she gets up to sexually.

 

All her non-sexual activities aside, Egwene remains morally sound.

 

The entire point of her skill with dreaming is that they are fully conscious and interactive fantasies she willingly and knowingly participating in. I said nothing about good, bad, or "moral soundness"; my point is that while she may be shocked at Elayne for having sex with Rand, or blush when Gawyn suggests they sleep together in reality, or, as in my second quotation, sniff at Mat for having sexual dreams (!), she is quite fond of sex herself. Nothing wrong with that, but applying those "traditional mores" randsc mentioned to others shows an irritating lack of introspection.

 

Okay, she may have been a little hypocritical on the Mat thing. But IIRC in her POV's she talks about being able to consciously control her normal dreams if she wants to but choosing not to do so. Therefore it would still be a subconscious fantasy. She may be conscious of what's going on in the dream. But she doesn't consciously control it. Of course I could always be remembering wrong. I'm wrong quite frequently.

 

"Mores" and "Morals", while they share a root, do not mean the same thing. And I used the word I did intentionally.

 

Mores are about conforming to societal norms. Not about right and wrong.

 

 

Dude, its not what she is doing subcounsciously in her dreams that Moratcorlm is talking about but rather the times when she is consciously controlling her dreams and when she is consciously accepting Gawyn's dreams. You cant fault someone for their subconscous thoughts but Egwene has done these said things, consciously.

[moroten]

If an idea is phrased in a way that Egwene comes to see the importance of it

 

Thats her biggest flaw. Untill proven otherwise all the other ideas, not made up by herself or her closely trusted women, are rubbish, mores and morals aside. She can use mores and morals against someone's acting or someone's idea but would never do it towards herself even though she might be doing the exact same thing. So in order for that person's idea to get accepted by Egwene he/she need to clearly and thoroughly explain him-/herself to Egwene and even then Egwene thinks that that person was only lucky and most of the other ideas are still crap.(yes I absolutely hate this woman check my signature).

[Luckers]

That wasn't really related to what I was saying Moroten.

[Auld Manriva]

I have NO idea where someone came up with the idea that Eggs takes on the values and morals of whomever she's hangin' with at the time. That's just preposterous.

Actually, it is well established. Not only from our reading, but in a Rand POV. It is one of her defining characteristics. I don't see how you can seriously think otherwise. And, again, we aren't actually talking about "morals and values." We're talking about mores and customs. Not the same thing.

 

Mores, Customs .. whatever. Eggs is in a constant learning mode. This can't be stressed enough. The faster, the better. There is NO better or faster mode of learning than total immersion. Language specifically but what she is taught by the WO's is almost like a new language, so she accepts the manner in which her mentors teach, in word and deed though NOT in thought, i.e. the sweat tent.

 

She never .. that's Not Ever, became comfy with the males in the sweat tent thing.

 

"Comfy" or not, was she in the sweat tent? Did she allow men to see her naked? Yes. Because she adopted the mores of the Aeil while an apprentice.

She does what she is required to do in that situation as a dutiful "apprentice" would. And she had an example in Moiraine to emulate. This is doing what must be done, NOT adopting new "mores and customs" as her own.

 

She still views Rand's 3-way as more or less "Bull-in-the-pasture..ish" just for starters.

 

No, she doesn't. She doesn't even KNOW about Rand's 3-way. Which, the former frat brother in me feels compelled to point out, is actually a 4-way.

The specifics of the relationship (such as the warder bond, marriage intentions? I agree. That he HAS a thing with each of them? She suspects at the least and has mused (internal self dialogue) about it disapprovingly with both Avienda and Min in previous books and most recently about Elayne and her pregnancy.

 

 

She is still commonly referred to as "the inn keep's daughter from the Two Rivers". Not only referring to her stubbornness but her modesty (or Whatever haters want to call it).

That phrase is consider derogatory, and refers not to neither her stubbornness nor her modesty.

It refers to Both in fact. It also refers to other qualities of her "personality" some of which, depending on the speaker, that could be considered derogatory. Coming from an avowed, un-objective hater, I'm not surprised in the least over your take on it.

 

Her views on AS, the Oaths and the WT have modified somewhat from earlier naive conversations amongst her, Nyn and Elayne. Wow... now That is what I call easily manipulated or influenced (not).

 

If by, "modified somewhat" you mean, "changed entirely", then yes

.

 

I mean precisely what I wrote and not your attempt to put words in my mouth.

 

 

This seems a strange thing to get heated over, but to degrees you are both right. That Egwene tries to be the best possible form of whatever she attempts doesn't necessarily mean she takes on the morals of those around her blindly--or whole. A bit of that is involved, of course, but its more the form of the thing, the definitive points, that she adopts. So Oaths are pointed out to her to be the defining aspect of an Aes Sedai and she one eighties on their importance. Notice, though, that the attitudes towards recruitment of older novices which is ingrained blood and bone gets left by the wayside. By the same note she starts wearing Aiel clothes when an apprentice, but doesn't take up the practice of cross-gender sweat tents.

 

For Egwene the form of a thing is very important. But that doesn't mean she takes the moral esoterics along with the functional ones.

 

If an idea is phrased in a way that Egwene comes to see the importance of it--yes, she'll adopt it. But it is not blind, and Auld Manriva is correct--Gawyn's reference to her modesty is quite clear, and we've seen as much other times. She would not adopt this simply because people around her are doing it--there would have to be reason, something Egwene would gain in her sense of self-image. This would not happen. Quite the opposite.

Thanks Luckers .. appreciated muchly and once again, said mo' bettah' than I could.... or did.

[moroten]

That wasn't really related to what I was saying Moroten.

 

Sorry Luckers, just got reminded of why I hate her so much by reading your response and your quote solidified in one sentece why I despise her.