The thing that happens with the Amrlyn in TSR

[GaseousAnomaly]

Spoiler bellow.(good thing I rearead myself cause I initially forgot the "p" in that sentence)

 

 

This a rant(I guess) about a one moment in the series that still makes no sense to me. It's the moment that broke the Aes Sedai for me. Broken as in damaged and less credible.

 

How is the way the tower split is even possible? In the first three books we are led to believe the Aes Sedai are an organization that has been going for thousands of years, with ridgid rules and a strict hierarchy all under the Aymerlin Seat.

 

The next thing we know is that not only is it possible in this organization to depose the Amrylin Seat in half a day by stretching the rules to their limit but you can do it while killing people. But it doesnt end there. You can still the Amrylin and the Keeper of the Chronicles and beat the crap out of them. All this in the same day with barely half the tower's support. No trial, no explaining all done in secret. Things could have been misinterpreted or evidence planted, it could be the work of darkfriends or the Black Ajah. But no investigation is needed for those who called the Amyrlin "Mother" the day before to accept and support the stilling of Amyrlin and the Keeper, something that just the mention of has some throw up. That's whitecloak stuff right there. If I try to imagine my self in the tower there are really no scenarios in which I would see my self supporting this short of being a darkfriend or Black Ajah.

 

I can understand a process where a vote is conducted to depose the Amyrlin allowing her to present a defense. The final decision would be that much more acceptable and would most likely lead to no split and no killings.

 

Was the intent just to surprise the reader and create some sort of sense of urgency? A lazy way of splitting the Tower? Would there have been an other way?

[Mighty Chin]

The killing happened as a result of Suian being deposed, when word got out then the split happened and the fighting began.

[Darth Krewl]

Yes, I believe there was another way to split the Tower that made it more credible: the rebirth of the Dragon.

 

Let's say, hypothetically, that half the Aes Sedai believed Rand to be the real thing, while the other half didn't. One half would try to control and manipulate...er...to support and guide him, I meant to say, while the other half wanted to hunt him down and sever him. Simple way to justify this would be the prophecy which states that the Dragon Reborn would break all ties and split the people or something like that.

 

This alternate split wouldn't even have to be so different, because you could still have the same AS characters at odds with each other (and even with Rand, given their arrogant, stubborn ways and his mistrust for any woman with a serpent ring on her finger), so you could've even followed a very similar story line (including the Dark One's plans to sow chaos and Egwene's rise to power) that the books followed anyways.

 

Then again, I do believe that a rift or schism of some kind should've presented itself for the good of the story. Because, IMO, the days of the White Tower are numbered. It must fall, so that a new organization made out of both, female and male channelers, akin to the Hall of the Servants may rise in its stead, after (if) the Last Battle is won.

[GaseousAnomaly]

Yes, I believe there was another way to split the Tower that made it more credible: the rebirth of the Dragon.

 

Let's say, hypothetically, that half the Aes Sedai believed Rand to be the real thing, while the other half didn't. One half would try to control and manipulate...er...to support and guide him, I meant to say, while the other half wanted to hunt him down and sever him. Simple way to justify this would be the prophecy which states that the Dragon Reborn would break all ties and split the people or something like that.

 

This alternate split wouldn't even have to be so different, because you could still have the same AS characters at odds with each other (and even with Rand, given their arrogant, stubborn ways and his mistrust for any woman with a serpent ring on her finger), so you could've even followed a very similar story line (including the Dark One's plans to sow chaos and Egwene's rise to power) that the books followed anyways.

 

Then again, I do believe that a rift or schism of some kind should've presented itself for the good of the story. Because, IMO, the days of the White Tower are numbered. It must fall, so that a new organization made out of both, female and male channelers, akin to the Hall of the Servants may rise in its stead, after (if) the Last Battle is won.

This makes so much sense. Thank you.

[Jon Paul]

You're up to eight so far aren't you? I'm not sure if there's a lot of information so far, but just wait until you start hearing about the content of the Thirteenth Depository, the secret records of the White Tower that even most Aes Sedai aren't allowed access to.

[GaseousAnomaly]

You're up to eight so far aren't you? I'm not sure if there's a lot of information so far, but just wait until you start hearing about the content of the Thirteenth Depository, the secret records of the White Tower that even most Aes Sedai aren't allowed access to.

 

Does it help make sense of the killing, stilling, splitting and the quickness of it all?

[moratcorlm]

Some of it does, particularly what you piece together about the Black Ajah and Mesaana. That said, the coup very likely was legal only in the sense that Elaida and Alviarin thought they could get away with presenting it as a fait accompli, which is why they had to work quickly.

[Ihasavowel]

How is the way the tower split is even possible? In the first three books we are led to believe the Aes Sedai are an organization that has been going for thousands of years, with ridgid rules and a strict hierarchy all under the Aymerlin Seat.

 

The next thing we know is that not only is it possible in this organization to depose the Amrylin Seat in half a day by stretching the rules to their limit but you can do it while killing people. But it doesnt end there. You can still the Amrylin and the Keeper of the Chronicles and beat the crap out of them. All this in the same day with barely half the tower's support. No trial, no explaining all done in secret. Things could have been misinterpreted or evidence planted, it could be the work of darkfriends or the Black Ajah. But no investigation is needed for those who called the Amyrlin "Mother" the day before to accept and support the stilling of Amyrlin and the Keeper, something that just the mention of has some throw up. That's whitecloak stuff right there. If I try to imagine my self in the tower there are really no scenarios in which I would see my self supporting this short of being a darkfriend or Black Ajah.

 

I can understand a process where a vote is conducted to depose the Amyrlin allowing her to present a defense. The final decision would be that much more acceptable and would most likely lead to no split and no killings.

 

Was the intent just to surprise the reader and create some sort of sense of urgency? A lazy way of splitting the Tower? Would there have been an other way?

Well for the first three books, we get very little reliable information about the inner workings of the Tower, so the impression created may be misleading and more about how the Tower wants to be perceived than how the Tower actually is.

 

In medieval Europe, there were often rigid rules and a rigid heirarchy, none of which eliminated coups conducted by small groups of powerful people.

 

Once the Amyrlin was deposed, she was not an Amyrlin, and so it's not true they stilled an Amyrlin. A former Amyrlin is an entirely different thing altogether. The same goes for her keeper. I found the pre-emptive strikes against Warders more unlikely (while I am sure it was no skin off Elaida's nose, I found it very odd that the non-Reds cooperating with her would suffer Warders being killed in a pre-emptive "just in case" manner).

 

You yourself point out that the Tower has rigid rules and a rigid heirachy. The desposing and sentence of stilling were all conducted in accordance with those rigid rules. Only those willing to go against thousands of years of rigid rules, were in any danger of rejecting what had happened.

 

The way Suane was deposed was "not the done thing" but in accordance with law. What happened would sit well with few Aes Sedai, but of the majority who had reservations, only so many are the kind of people who would go against the letter of Tower law.

 

As for allowing Suane to be present, my understanding was that the Amyrlin must be informed when the Hall sit, unless the purpose of sitting is to put forward a vote on whether or not to depose her, in which case there is no obligation to even inform her, much less invite her to put forward a defense....although I suppose I might be misremembering.