The Timeline Thread

[Luckers]

Requested by Sharaman.

 

Can we do a timeline reconciliation thread in one place? All narratives in Prologue, Chapter 1, 8 and TGS (where they ended).

Be more useful than the random attempts that are being made in separate PoVs.

It could be as broad as possible - cross referencing events where we have cross refs for:

Rand's Story,

Perrin's Story,

Mat's Story,

Lan-Kandori-Ituralde,

Galad,

Egwene,

Avi,

BT,

Tuon,

Forsaken,

Fain,

Whatever,,

[TheAngryDruid]

Requested by Sharaman.

 

Can we do a timeline reconciliation thread in one place? All narratives in Prologue, Chapter 1, 8 and TGS (where they ended).

Be more useful than the random attempts that are being made in separate PoVs.

It could be as broad as possible - cross referencing events where we have cross refs for:

Rand's Story,

Perrin's Story,

Mat's Story,

Lan-Kandori-Ituralde,

Galad,

Egwene,

Avi,

BT,

Tuon,

Forsaken,

Fain,

Whatever,,

 

Out of my league.

 

Graendal is obviously behind Rand, because she just escaped Natrin's Barrow from her POV. According to Cooper, this is 12 days before VoG, and Apples First, and Bathed in Light (the day after Egwene is raised in TV).

 

Rand in ToM just picked up right after VoG in tGS. Egwene and Rand are right with each other at the end of tGS, as Bathed in Light is the same day as VoG.

 

I can't tell where Fain, Lan, Perrin, or Mat are in relation. Or even how long it has been since Verin dropped Mat in Caemlyn. Though I suspect it is day 10, which is either the first, or in my opinion, the only, day Mat can open the letter. If indeed it is day 10 (a big IF), and if Cooper's chronology is on for tGS (an IF as well), then that would put Mat 17 days before Verin drinks the poison, and 19 days before VoG. Hence, you can see the issues some have had.

 

But we do know Perrin is behind, from the swirly visions of him Rand had in tGS, doing things with people he hasn't met up with yet. According to Cooper's timeline, Rand has his vision of Perrin (with somebody he hasn't encountered yet) 11 days AFTER Verin gives Mat the letter (and presumably drops him in Caemlyn). So if Mat is indeed on day 10, it is about the time Rand is having his swirly vision of Perrin. Which would fit, because it would also put Mat and Thom in Caemlyn (though they probably aren't riding). Again, if the timeline and my day 10 hypothesis are right, then Mat in Ch. 8 is ahead of Perrin in the Prologue (by as long as it takes him to meet Galad, or slightly longer). Really, since Perrin's entrie PoV is in dreamland, we have no idea where he is, he could be post Galad, but that would just be strange.

 

Rand tells Nynaeve about the viewing 17 days later, precipitating the mission to get Tam. When Perrin meets Galad, he's about 20 days or so behind Rand in VoG/Apples (depending on the length of time they've been together before Rand sees it). But Perrin and Galad should be converging fairly soon.

 

Avi, according to Cooper, left via gateway for the Waste 22 days before VoG. 7 days after Verin gave Mat the letter (and then 3 before Ch 8, if I'm right), and 4 days before Rand's vision of Perrin w/ Galad (Avi and Perrin could be pretty close). This is 10 days before Rand balefires the Barrow.

 

I think we'll have to actually start reading the book to get a better grip, or wiser heads than mine will have to work it out.

[Lisa Campbell]

I think we'll have to actually start reading the book to get a better grip, or wiser heads than mine will have to work it out.

 

There is no wisdom without knowledge. So yes I agree with your statement. I don't have the patience for the calendar and even though I know it is well theorised and developed, there are too just many questions and gaps for me to take is as gospel. And this subject gives me a headache to boot.

 

My only thought on the issue is that I think Mat has only just arrived in Caemlyn in the last couple of days. Enough time to send Elayne a letter, get to know a few innkeepers and find out that the Queen's Blessing has closed its doors. He says in SSL that he only has to wait "a few weeks". A week in Randland is 10 days, common usage of the word makes "few" = 3, so total waiting time is around or maybe just under 30 days.

[The Fisher King]

You know, mates, the truth is, the timeline is actually pretty well in sycnh. Alot of folks got their knickers in a twist mainly because of the ''Mat/Verin/Letter/Camelyn/The Thirty Days'' thing. Folks allowed this to confuse them which was sad because it was pretty clear, to tell you the truth. One last time, to be 100% clear: *Verin meant ''30 Days'' after giving Mat the Letter, NOT thirty Dayys starting with Mat's First Day back in Camelyn*. This is inarguable. Keep this in mind and ALL the rest of the timeline matches up perfectly.

 

 

 

Fish

[Sharaman]

First, all the timelines have to sync by Tarmai'geddon.

Will try and modify the following, after another read and a look at Cooper.

Rand-Egwene are pretty much in sync.

 

Perrin (Galad) is way behind - Rand has seen him with Galad and then, Tam arrives, two days before VoG, confirming that Morgause's ID is known.

Perrin's own PoV doesn't tell us much - it's dreamtime; he could be anywhere in the real world.

Can we get a sense of the timeline by looking at Galad's PoV? What battle took place in the marshes?

Incidentally what does Perrin now intend to do? His original mission is aborted. Will he rejoin rand or head for the Borderlands?

 

Mat (and Verin) is a bit of a puzzle -- he arrives in Caemlyn the same day he meets Verin, and gets the letter.

In Chapter 8, he's still inside the time limit of his two options. He's hit day 10, since he can open the letter.

The rumours he picked up (Raken attacking the WT) and the weather thing (clouds passing) makes it seem as though VoG has happened, which conflicts Cooper's timeline. If it is post-VoG time, Verin spent just 7-8-odd days wandering around between dropping Mat off and going to meet Egwene in the WT.

 

Lan-the Kandori Heath Tower attack - Ituralde in the Blight. Here it's almost complete guesswork.

According to Nyn, Lan would take 2-3 months to reach Tarwin's Gap from where she left him in Land's End.

He's in Northern Saldaea, hasn't yet crossed into Kandor, seems to be fairly early into the ride. No sign of Ituralde, (or rumours of Ituralde from Bulen, who may not know about him anyhow) who is patrolling the Saldaean Blightborder. So this could be, and probably is, before Rand recruited Ituralde. One puzzle here is that a Kandor-based chap meets Lan but the Saldaean Malkieri Nyn recruited don't. But that could be because Bulen guesed right about the road Lan would take.

My guess is that the Kandori Heath Tower Attack is that it's somewhat later than Ituralde's recruitment. This is because when we last see Ituralde, there are only a few scraps going on in the Blight while the Kandor attack seems like a penetration in force. Of course, it could also be that the Shadow is focussed on Kandor and not really interested in hitting Saldaea.

[Gor]

You know, mates, the truth is, the timeline is actually pretty well in sycnh. Alot of folks got their knickers in a twist mainly because of the ''Mat/Verin/Letter/Camelyn/The Thirty Days'' thing. Folks allowed this to confuse them which was sad because it was pretty clear, to tell you the truth. One last time, to be 100% clear: *Verin meant ''30 Days'' after giving Mat the Letter, NOT thirty Dayys starting with Mat's First Day back in Camelyn*. This is inarguable. Keep this in mind and ALL the rest of the timeline matches up perfectly.

 

 

 

Fish

 

1) Mat got the letter the same day he got to Caemlyn. So I am not really sure what you are trying to say here Fish.

 

Proof from tGS: "Begin breaking down your camp, Matrim. I need to make your gateway as soon as possible. I myself need to Travel shortly." "Fine." Mat looked down at the sealed, folded paper in his hands.

 

At most he got the letter a few hours before arriving in Caemlyn.

 

2) Mat has not been in Caemlyn more than 10 days.

 

Proof from ToM: "All he had to do was wait a few weeks, and he would be free."

 

A few usually implies 3, but it can be ambigious sometimes and could mean 2 or 2.5 etc. In any case it is always more than just 1. 1 week = 10 days. 2 weeks = 20. Other lines in CH. 8 say that Mat has been in Caemlyn at least 3 days: “No, but what of the thugs who jumped you on your way back to camp three nights back?”

 

So at the least Mat has 27 days left to wait. Or 7 days until the 10 are up. Furthermore, it is likely that he wasn't set upon by thugs on his first night back (just the nature of things, and it probably would have been described as "on your first night here" if it had happened). So I am thinking he's been there for 5-8 days.

 

Mat got the letter from Verin inside of a week ago and is awaiting for her return at the end of the week (hopefully) or is preparing to wait the "few" extra weeks (20 days).

 

3) Verin expects to return to Mat in 10 days. But just in case she asks him to wait longer.

 

From tGS: ""You may choose not to open the letter," Verin said. "Burn it. But if you do so, you wait fifty days in Caemlyn, just in case it takes me longer to return than I had expected." ... "Thirty days," she said."

 

Assuming her plan all along was to commit suicide in Egwene's presence (and the amount of letters lends to that assumption), and assuming that she could once again freely Travel to the destinations she needed to go to after assisting Mat, we can assume that it would not take very long at all to end up in Tar Valon. Nynaeve Travelled over the whole of the Borderlands in a single night. Verin's sack of letters would easily have been delivered inside of those 10 days.

 

4) We have other events that happen around Verin's death (either that occurred the same night or two days after) that *can* be related to quotes in chapter 8.

 

Seanchan invasion of the tower: "...Aes Sedai have decided to raise an army of soldiers by giving birth to them, and that flying monsters attacked the White Tower."

 

Veins of Gold: "...though those clouds had passed by and—remarkably—left the sky open to the air."

 

Thom also says: "Word is that Trollocs have invaded the Borderlands in force." (prologue connection - makes me think that that part of the prologue is even with Rand and Egwene's storyline).

 

So this *clearly* illustrates that Mat's timeline *is* behind Egwene and Rand's. However, it also fairly clearly demonstrates that it cannot be by much if Mat has only been in Caemlyn for less than a week and those rumors/events have already taken place.

 

I know Brandon has stated Verin died 30 days later but I believe this to be a mistake of some sort, barring any tGS revisioning, and that she actually died 7-10 days after meeting with Mat. To me, the most logical answer to this timeline conundrum is just that Perrin is way behind, and Mat is only a half-week back of Rand and Egwene. The easy fix here, if one is even needed, is to have Mat's trip from Ebou Dar to Trustair take longer (I got the impression when reading that it was pretty much in-line with Rand and Egwene all along but the online timelines I've seen seem to disagree with me). If anyone can direct me to quotes that would disprove this theory, please do so because I by no means claim to be infallible; but as written the timeline above makes the most sense to me.

[Naffy]

I love how rampant speculation by those who have not even read ToM seems to hold more weight than the words of Team Jordan. The timeline is fine and there are no errors in it. Can we please stop beating this dead horse? Throughout the series there have been rumors that have preceeded actual events. The weather has been affected in multiple ways throughout the series. Please give it a rest.

[TheAngryDruid]

I love how rampant speculation by those who have not even read ToM seems to hold more weight than the words of Team Jordan. The timeline is fine and there are no errors in it. Can we please stop beating this dead horse? Throughout the series there have been rumors that have preceeded actual events. The weather has been affected in multiple ways throughout the series. Please give it a rest.

 

But this thread isn't about timeline errors, it is just about trying to get it straight in our heads, who is when.

 

Regarding Mat, the idea that he's only been in Caemlyn a few days just doesn't have much merit. Guys, he CAN'T OPEN THE LETTER UNTIL DAY 10. If he is thinking about opening it, it HAS to be at least day 10 (or nine). He's not thinking, Meli, don't open the letter, its only been 4 days and if I open it now, I'd be breaking my word. He's thinking: if I open it now, I have to do what it says. And if one goes back and re-reads the tGS chapter where Verin visits, it is pretty obvious (to me at least), from Verin's wording that Mat can:

 

a) Wait ten days and open the letter (ie. open it ON day 10), OR

b) Wait 30 days and be free.

 

And this would also fit more with how Verin behaved. IF there is something in the letter that betrays her oaths, so that IF he opens the letter on day 10, she has to be dead by that time. If Mat can open the letter on day 11, 12, 13, or 14 doesn't make any sense. She could just travel to Caemlyn, see if he's opened the letter yet, check in, ask him to wait another day or two, and try to find the Oath Rod in the meantime.

 

Of course, there may be some other reason that Verin had to act on that day unconnected to Mat, we'll have to see, but IF there is a connection, it strongly buoys the point that he has to open on day 10 (or is it day 11?) or not at all.

[Gor]

Regarding Mat, the idea that he's only been in Caemlyn a few days just doesn't have much merit. Guys, he CAN'T OPEN THE LETTER UNTIL DAY 10. If he is thinking about opening it, it HAS to be at least day 10 (or nine). He's not thinking, Meli, don't open the letter, its only been 4 days and if I open it now, I'd be breaking my word. He's thinking: if I open it now, I have to do what it says. And if one goes back and re-reads the tGS chapter where Verin visits, it is pretty obvious (to me at least), from Verin's wording that Mat can:

 

a) Wait ten days and open the letter (ie. open it ON day 10), OR

b) Wait 30 days and be free.

 

And this would also fit more with how Verin behaved. IF there is something in the letter that betrays her oaths, so that IF he opens the letter on day 10, she has to be dead by that time. If Mat can open the letter on day 11, 12, 13, or 14 doesn't make any sense. She could just travel to Caemlyn, see if he's opened the letter yet, check in, ask him to wait another day or two, and try to find the Oath Rod in the meantime.

 

Of course, there may be some other reason that Verin had to act on that day unconnected to Mat, we'll have to see, but IF there is a connection, it strongly buoys the point that he has to open on day 10 (or is it day 11?) or not at all.

A fair point. But I would argue that Mat only thinks in regards to the 30 days because he has (as of now) no intention at all of opening that letter. So the 10 day minimum is of absolutely no concern to him.

 

Additionally, the difference between him having been in Caemlyn for 8 days or 10-11 days is pretty negligible in terms of timeline arrangements with other characters.

[Gor]

I love how rampant speculation by those who have not even read ToM seems to hold more weight than the words of Team Jordan. The timeline is fine and there are no errors in it. Can we please stop beating this dead horse? Throughout the series there have been rumors that have preceeded actual events. The weather has been affected in multiple ways throughout the series. Please give it a rest.

This is precicesly my argument. The timeline is fine as written. And Mat is about a week behind Egwene and Rand.