Why is Callandor diffrent?

[dreago]

Why is Callandor diffrent?

The AoL's could have completed it but instead left it without its safety buffer that prevented you from drawing too much power(also magnified the Taint).

This leads me to believe that Callandor was designed this way on purpose, but why?

[Luckers]

The exact description was that Callandor was flawd. That doesn't sound intentional to me.

 

My guess is that the stronger the sa'angreal you are trying to make, the harder it is the buffer it--likely in a number of ways--very likely Callandor is just within the line of it being safe--or rather safe enough. Much more and it'd likely be impossible to use at all. This would explain why there arn't many sa'angreal--possibly even it marks the difference between angreal and sa'angreal. It's also likely why they needed to make access keys to the Choedan Kal... my guess is those access keys were something of a breakthrough.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yup.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Also, when Callandor was made, the Taint wasn't a concern. One consequence of the flaw, and we were shown the effects twice, is that it magnified the madness of the Taint. With the Taint gone, the buffer might be adequate for a cautious user.

[rochaid]

in the shadow rising lanfear says of callandor that only two stronger sa'angreal usable for men were made,one of these is obviously the giant sa'angreal in carhein with its access key.do we know of the other?if not do you think we'll be introduced to it?maybe logain since narishma appears to be using callandor...

 

 

sorry for goin off the point.i agree with the others,its probably harder to buffer the stronger it is..

[Luckers]

I doubt it personally. It was probably just RJ rounding things out... you know, giving it a feel of reality. Especially since male sa'angreal seem to have been actively destroyed.

 

On the other hand maybe the thing never worked, having the same problem as Callandor and the Choedan Kal, only worse and with no access keys.

[Guest cwestervelt]

She also said she only knows that 1 of the 2 still exists. The male Chodan Kal was the one that still existed. For the purposes of the story, the other will likely remain lost as a result of the Breaking. She may even have been lying.

[algspkr]

She also said she only knows that 1 of the 2 still exists. The male Chodan Kal was the one that still existed. For the purposes of the story, the other will likely remain lost as a result of the Breaking. She may even have been lying.

I don't see Lanfear lying to Rand before she got ticked in FoH.

[Guest cwestervelt]

You don't see her lying to Rand prior to Fires of Heaven? I saw more lies, or at least corruption of the facts, than honest truth in what she told him through The Great Hunt.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yeah, for once cwestervelt and I are on the same page on this one. Lanfear lied whenever she wanted, to whomever she wanted, and she lied to Rand quite a bit.

[Luckers]

I agree, yet i dont see her lying about this... what would be the point?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Oh I'm not saying that she lied about this in particular, just that if it suited her, she would. You're right, lying about this particular thing would have served no purpose.

[HawksHead]

Didn't Lanfear say that "only two Sa'angreal were ever made more powerful..." I always thought she meant Both Choden Kal, not 2 Male Sa'angreal, and a female sa'angreal.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Here's the quote in question:

 

"Not with that, cetainly," she added, grimacing at Callandor. "There are only two more powerful that a man can use. One at least, I know, still exists. No, Lews Therin. I will not trust you with that yet."

 

(The Shadow Rising, Decisions, p.155)

[Marin]

I just read Dreago's theory in Severed Implications and it got me thinking... could Callandor have been made by men, only? For example, Elayne's dream ter'angreal do not work as well as the original - we can speculate that something is missing. Could that same speculation apply to Callandor?

[Luckers]

It's a possibility.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It would also fit nicely with Jordan's tendency to require Siadin and Saidar to be used together for any really wonderous feats.

 

The problem comes in that with certain things like the Bowl of Winds which use both halves of the True Source, the women see a sort of impenetrable void were Saidin is present. There were a couple of other instances where the same thing happened. Elayne never noticed anything like that with the Dream Ter'angreal.

[Luckers]

I have a slight suspicion that angreal for men are made by women and angreal for women are made by men, and sa'angreal are made by both. This is why they are hard to buffer.

 

Specifically, i suspect its in the nature of saidar and saidin. We saw in WH that saidar can contain saidin, and therefore likely vice versa, yet as cwestervelt has said men and women are stronger together... i suspect this is the distinction between angreal and sa'angreal. Only the presense of a like power in sa'angreal make it hard to control how much power enters and the like. The power you are trying to contain is blurring with that trying to contain it.

[rochaid]

thats a good theory about the buffering.callador was the only sa'angreal to be made in the form of a weapon,a sign of the time it was made.i

dont believe this,but maybe it was made without a buffer in case of a time when that extra bit of power would be needed.just throwing another theory out there

 

i'd also like to say that having a super strong sa'angreal like the one lanfear seems to have mentioned appear in time for the LB would be hard to swallow and simply be too convenient,still,it would be cool,i love the huge amounts of powere scenes

[Rumor]

If anyone on the light's side would have an inkling as to where that other Sa'angreal is, it would be Verin or Cadsuane...given the discussion on where Verin has gone, it seems the consensus is that she's either going to get the horn or to the borderlanders and both of those are definitely more plausible, but perhaps Verin has gone in search of the Sa'angreal instead. IF we are to see this powerful aid in the final battle, then I would suspect it might come from Verin.

[Rational_Solutions]

The exact description was that Callandor was flawd. That doesn't sound intentional to me.

 

My guess is that the stronger the sa'angreal you are trying to make' date=' the harder it is the buffer it--likely in a number of ways--very likely Callandor is just within the line of it being safe--or rather safe enough. Much more and it'd likely be impossible to use at all. This would explain why there arn't many sa'angreal--possibly even it marks the difference between angreal and sa'angreal. It's also likely why they needed to make access keys to the Choedan Kal... my guess is those access keys were something of a breakthrough.[/quote']

 

Here is my problem with that. The access keys are only ter'angreal. If the Ter'angreal are able to buffer the taint why not make it so that it can buffer it to an infitesimal amount or all together? If the Ter'angreal can't that means that the Choden Kal are able to buffer. If this is true then the design of Callandor is flawed. That leaves the question was that on purpose? Say, to kill anyone not the DR who grabs it? Just speculation.

[Luckers]

I'm not sure i get what you are saying. The access keys were not made to buffer the taint any more then any of the buffers in any of the angreal or sa'angreal were. Yet they do, unintentionally or not, they do. Callandor does not because it is flawd and lacks a buffer.

 

Nevertheless you may have a point. The problem is that it likely never occured to anyone to test, and by the time they were in any position to the making of angreal were lost.

 

Indeed this matches what Rand did to cleanse the taint, if my theory on sa'angreal and angreal is right. The saidar present in the male angreal effectively contricting and holding the saidin, and therefore bleeding out the taint and buffering it, except for callandor, in which the buffer was flawd because the sa'angreal had too much saidin in it itself, and the taint was not being bled out.

[Rational_Solutions]

exactly.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I agree with the principles behind your theory on the buffer, Luckers, except for the part about buffering the taint. Rand frequently used the "little fat man" angreal, and noticed no difference in the taint or its effects.

[Luckers]

Thats the point. The taint was not out of control, like with callandor, because the buffer was constricting how much of it could get in in the same was Rand did with the tube of saidar... only not as tightly, so some did get it. Callandor, which lacks a proper buffer, didn't do this, and this the taint was able to amplify itself too.