Lanfear mentions two ter'angreal stronger than Callandor

[herid]

From

 

http://dposey.no-ip.com/IdealSeek/IdealSeek.cgi?q=more+powerful+man

 

'There are only two more powerful that a man can use'

 

Note she doesn't say that only a man can use.

 

We have no evidence suggesting that there may be hermaphrodite *'angreals - or that there willl not, except that all the *'angreals we have seen to date are single-sex.. But,

we've seen that the Bowl of the Winds ter'angreal, while being used by women, nevertheless wove saidin as well as saidar.

 

I think Lanfear meant 2 that could only be used by a man. The Forsaken never learned how to link, so it's unlikely that she would refer to something that required linking.

whatever gave you that notion?! The Forsaken certainly can link. They know more about linking than the present day Aes Sedai. But I agree that Lanfear meant a sa'angreal that can only be used by a man. There has never been a hint of a unisex angreal or sa'angreal or even of a possibility that one might exist anywhere. Ter'angreal such as the Bowl are a different matter.

[Finnssss22]

From

 

http://dposey.no-ip.com/IdealSeek/IdealSeek.cgi?q=more+powerful+man

 

'There are only two more powerful that a man can use'

 

Note she doesn't say that only a man can use.

 

We have no evidence suggesting that there may be hermaphrodite *'angreals - or that there willl not, except that all the *'angreals we have seen to date are single-sex.. But,

we've seen that the Bowl of the Winds ter'angreal, while being used by women, nevertheless wove saidin as well as saidar.

 

I think Lanfear meant 2 that could only be used by a man. The Forsaken never learned how to link, so it's unlikely that she would refer to something that required linking.

 

The Forsaken definitely know how to link, they generally don't because they simply don't trust each other.

However, Sammael and Graendal did link in aCoS chptr 20 when they meet with Sevanna.

 

 

As far as Lanfear's reference, she was talking about Sa'angreal not Ter'angreal. The Choedan Kal itself is a Sa'angreal, as is Callandor. It's only the access key that is a Ter'angreal so you can link with the Choedan Kal.

Sa'angreal and angreal are either male or female, not both.

Don't get confused just because it has been discovered that Callandor has a flaw and needs a linked circle composing of a male and 2 females to operate properly/safely. It's still just a pretty sword without a man involved.

 

Bottom line, there was and possibly still could be a male Sa'angreal out there more powerful than Callandor.

[mbuehner]

I've seen this explanation offered a number of times but I consider it very unlikely. Ta'veren effect doesn't work on demand. The Dark Rand seemed to think it does but Tuon proved him wrong. The new Rand doesn't ever try to rely on it as a primary tool so far as we could tell

 

What about when he returned to Bandar Eban and told Iralin all the food unchecked would be unspoiled and the guards already gathered are trustworthy? Or smoking out the darkfriends amongst his nobles?

 

I guess the open question is if there is any intrinsic difference in The Dragon Reborn's level of ta'veren at this point, and his connection to the land (as it were) that is clearing storm clouds and blossoming apples. I'd argue that this is the ultimate level of the Pattern's self repair... the Dark One is distorting the pattern enough to nearly starve the world to death and the Dragon is the repair mechanism to prevent that before the last battle, which essentially makes it ta'veren work on a huge scale.

 

The Pattern could not allow the Dragon to be imprisoned in the White Tower, so Rand had no fear that they could hold them there. I think that is a difference in kind to believing he could stop an individual's heart with his will, or bend Tuon's will to his own. He isn't forcing the pattern, perhaps he is reading the pattern, or at least is confident that the prophecies will out and he cant be allowed to be captured.

 

Anyway, that's my view. Could easily be as you said above as well.

[Majsju]

I know that duality is a definitive theme in Randland, whether it be good & evil, male & female etc etc, but the duality between the DO and the Creator just doesn't fit too well with me when one is hyper-active in his attempts to affect, destroy, reshape the pattern and the other is just like, 'meh'. :)

 

I would say that is why their duality does work. The DO is the über-control freak, whereas the Creator represent free will. Granted, in a world where you have ta'veren, prophecies etc, one could argue just how much free will some people actually have. But on the other hand, whie the DO is imprisoned, his ability to actually control events is definitly limited, so one could argue there is a bit of balance there.

[herid]

I've seen this explanation offered a number of times but I consider it very unlikely. Ta'veren effect doesn't work on demand. The Dark Rand seemed to think it does but Tuon proved him wrong. The new Rand doesn't ever try to rely on it as a primary tool so far as we could tell

 

What about when he returned to Bandar Eban and told Iralin all the food unchecked would be unspoiled and the guards already gathered are trustworthy?

The food episode is mostly "the land is one with the Dragon" thing and Rand knows about it. But yeh, it's in part ta'veren too.

 

Or smoking out the darkfriends amongst his nobles?

I don't think that has anything to do with ta'veren. It's something related to Rand's new abilities post VoG. It looks like he can see souls now. He recognized Siuan after one look into her eyes even though she looks very different from before. He also recognized Lanfear's soul in the dream. He may also have been tipped about Wieramon by Verin - we have not seen what was in the letter she left him. She told him that Stepaneos was in the Tower but she could have told him a lot more than that.

 

I guess the open question is if there is any intrinsic difference in The Dragon Reborn's level of ta'veren at this point, and his connection to the land (as it were) that is clearing storm clouds and blossoming apples. I'd argue that this is the ultimate level of the Pattern's self repair... the Dark One is distorting the pattern enough to nearly starve the world to death and the Dragon is the repair mechanism to prevent that before the last battle, which essentially makes it ta'veren work on a huge scale.

 

The Pattern could not allow the Dragon to be imprisoned in the White Tower, so Rand had no fear that they could hold them there. I think that is a difference in kind to believing he could stop an individual's heart with his will, or bend Tuon's will to his own. He isn't forcing the pattern, perhaps he is reading the pattern, or at least is confident that the prophecies will out and he cant be allowed to be captured.

 

Anyway, that's my view. Could easily be as you said above as well.

I think that's an oversimplification of the situation. If the Pattern is guaranteed to make sure that everything will happen as it should then there is no reason to worry about anything. Rand is definitely not taking that view. He is far from sure that he could convince Egwene to agree to his plan even though he very much wants her to. why would he be sure that she would not be able to hold him in the Tower if she tried.

[mbuehner]

I think that's an oversimplification of the situation. If the Pattern is guaranteed to make sure that everything will happen as it should then there is no reason to worry about anything. Rand is definitely not taking that view. He is far from sure that he could convince Egwene to agree to his plan even though he very much wants her to. why would he be sure that she would not be able to hold him in the Tower if she tried.

 

Maybe- but the alternative is some new power we have pretty much no evidence of, and moreover that suddenly Rand has instant knowledge of and control over (no learning curve). Lets remember this was the first thing he did after VoG.

 

We should ask why he would go to the Tower at all if he believed there was a chance they might TRY to detain him. Such an attempt, even if failed, would be an unmitigated disaster as well. Otoh, he could have certainly arranged a neutral meeting with his own guards (like the Tuon meeting) which would deter any attempt to grab him. He could do that in a matter of hours... but he didn't bother. Why would he risk that?

 

By my theory he wasn't risking it because he knew they couldn't try, any more than the other AS could speak up (and perhaps interrupt The Dragon knowing her anger), hence there was no risk to worry about.