A Little Confusion Over TGS

[Barid Bel Medar]

I have said it before, and i would like peoples views on this.

 

I have heard a lot of people saying "thank god Brandon picked up the pace of the books"

 

Now I love Brandon's work, and what he is doing for the WoT is nothing short of amazing, however, I do think we are giving him too much credit and RJ not enough. If RJ were alive, the plot of tGS would be exactly the same, Brandon was writing down the story from RJ's outline, he did not actually think up the plots, so if RJ was alive, it would be the same pace, KoD was certainly of the same pace. (note: edited I would like to say that the job of writing down the story from RJ's outline is in no way a easy task.)

 

So i really dont think it is a "thank god for that" moment, as Brandon himself said, it is still RJ's story, he is just completing it.

 

(Note: I mean no disrespect to Brandon here if anyone has that impression, I want to emphasise that I love his work and what he is doing for the WoT, but i think some people are being a little short sighted in regards to the RJ/Brandon writing)

[MikeRiley]

It's not the plot, it's the choice of words and how the plot comes about. I can't say Robert Jordan's would be worse or better but it definitely would have been different. Knife of Dreams set The Gathering Storm up to be awesome either way. Give credit where it's due: The Gathering Storm is the work of both Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Give credit where it's due: The Gathering Storm is the work of both Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan.

 

Jeez... did you read it....

 

I expressedly said that I am not disrespecting Brandon, and his writing is not the issue at hand, I take nothing away from him,. im saying, HE DIDNT MAKE THE PLOT UP, really, please read it properly before replying....

[MikeRiley]

It was a general statement, not targeted specifically at you. Just like your topic was not targeted specifically at me. You wanted us to post our views and I did, coincidentally agreeing with yours. Or did you just want people to post telling you you're wrong?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I guess I misinterpreted your comment, since it was a reply to the topic at hand, I thought it was a direct response to my earlier words...

 

And i jsut read my post, it seems a little snippy, but thats jsut how i type, it is not meant to be venomous in any way, i just thought it funny (from my PoV) that i spent half of the post saying I dont take away anything from Brandons work, then the first post i get says give credit where it is due.

 

After telling me that it was not directed at me, yes, I understand, you are completely right in your comments, (and even if i disagreed, the comments are still valid) however, can you see how i misinterpreted it? Me being the one who brought up the topic, and the only other poster currently on it?

 

In any case, I am agreeing with you on the points, it would definitly be different, and Brandon's choice of words were excellent etc...

 

However, that is not the issue in this topic, i was specifically singling out the comments that say "thank god brandon picked up the pace"

 

where in fact, yes, he changed the style, however, i jsut think that, as you said, give credit where it is due, it was still RJ's story, and all of that action would have been in it, so one cannot say "it would have been slow like CoT" or something to that effect.

 

 

[Elend]

Brandon didn't make the plot up, but he did choose which events would be in this particular book. All three were originally meant to be one book, after all. Just saying.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Brandon didn't make the plot up, but he did choose which events would be in this particular book. All three were originally meant to be one book, after all. Just saying.

 

It is a good point, and Brandon did make tGS action packed.

 

However, if RJ was writing it, it, as you said, would be one book, so it would still have the same action, just spaced out.

 

(I think that most peoples problem with CoT is not that it was slow as such, but that nothing really happened in the book, so if it was combined with say, KoD or WH, it would be much better)

[The Fisher King]

I am not trying to do speak for Barid...BUT...I will offer MY view on what he was saying:

 

There is a BIG difference between ''Plot'' and ''Dialogue'' in a book. I dont think Barid was in any way disrespecting the way that Brandon wrote the character's dialogue, descriptions etc.

 

Just pointing out that the STORY...the PLOT for that book was already established. Brandon is not writing the ''Story'' of Wheel of Time. That has been done. In fact, Mr Jordan has already written the end, and much of TOM. Also, in fact, RJ already had mentally concocted the end of the story 20 years ago. So, Brandon is not writing the STORY, but he IS writing the BOOKS. And I think he is doing a FANTASTIC job.

 

I also get Barid's point about people should no not be surprised by the action-packed and crispy crisp pace of TGS.........*IF* They read KOD. ... KOD has so much ACTION I almost regretted that extra cup of tea every time I read it and was far from the bathroom - LOL!!!

 

I guarantee that if in the tragic event that BS had had to come in after WINTER HEART and write COT...people would NOT be talking about how quicka nd crisp and uptempo and action-filled Brandon Sanderson's writing was. RJ felt like the story of the series by the time of WH necessitated the next book (COT) to be a bit slower, so Brandon would have had to follow that...just like things are rushing to the climax now at the end since KOD Brandon's ''pace'' is dictated by that as well. Its pre-determined for him by what has come before and set up by Jordan.

 

That said, everything Brandon IS doing...the reseach, the dedication, the long hours, the tours, and the work on determining the ORDER of events of these last 3 books, as well as his overall writing skill and his dedication to getting the character's ''voices'' as accurate as possible has been ***MAGNIFICENT*** in my opinion and I very much appreciate Mr Branderson and I always will.

 

But, the story was still in place, set by RJ - When Brandon came into this and began his excellent work.

 

Sorry if I went off on your deal there, Barid, LOL! ;)

 

 

Fish

[Barid Bel Medar]

I am not trying to do speak for Barid...BUT...I will offer MY view on what he was saying:

 

There is a BIG difference between ''Plot'' and ''Dialogue'' in a book. I dont think Barid was in any way disrespecting the way that Brandon wrote the character's dialogue, descriptions etc.

 

Just pointing out that the STORY...the PLOT for that book was already established. Brandon is not writing the ''Story'' of what. That has been done. In fact, Mr Jordan has already written the end, and much of TOM. Also, in fact, RJ already had mentally concocted the end of the story 20 years ago. So, Brandon is not writing the STORY, but he IS writing the BOOKS. And I think he is doing a FANTASTIC job.

 

I also get Barid's point about people should no not be surprised by the action packed and crispy crisp pace of TGS.........*IF* They read KOD. ... KOD has so much ACTION I almost regretted that extra cup of tea every time I read it and was far from the bathroom - LOL!!!

 

I guarantee that if in the tragic event that BS had had to come in after WINTER HEART and write COT...people would NOT be talking about how quicka nd crisp and uptempo and action-filled Brandon Sanderson's writing was. RJ felt like the story of the series by the time of WH necessitated the next book (COT) to be a bit slower, so Brandon would have had to follow that...just like things are rushing to the climax now at the end since KOD Brandon's ''pace'' is dictated by that as well. Its pre-determined for him by what has come before and set up by Jordan.

 

That said, everything Brandos IS doing...the reseach, the dedication, the long hours, the tours, and the work on determining the ORDER of events of these last 3 books, as well as his overall writing skill and his dedication to getting the character's ''voices'' as accurate as possible has been ***MAGNIFICENT*** in my opinion and I very much appreciate Mr Branderson and I always will.

 

But, the story was still in place, set by RJ - When Brandon came into thisa nd began his excellent work.

 

Sorry if I went off on your deal there, Barid, LOL! ;)

 

 

Fish

 

No, you got it spot on, thats exactly what I was saying.

[The Fisher King]

Barid just said to me: ''No, you got it spot on''

 

Whoa!!! No one has EVER said that to me here before!!! Is there a Full Moon!!! ;)

 

Fish ;)

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

Barid just said to me: ''No, you got it spot on''

 

Whoa!!! No one has EVER said that to me here before!!! Is there a Full Moon!!! ;)

 

Fish ;)

 

 

hahah, doesnt bode well for my theory then does it  :P

[The Fisher King]

Probably not - LOL!!! ;)

 

 

Fish

[farthammer]

Is it that there are people exist that feel that way?  Seems like it's just the odd thread here and there, just shootin the [removed] over WHO DA MAN before moving on the next day basically forgetting to remember to give a [removed] one way or another.

 

 

 

Edit: Try to keep an eye on the swearing.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Is it that there are people exist that feel that way?  Seems like it's just the odd thread here and there, just shootin the [removed] over WHO DA MAN before moving on the next day basically forgetting to remember to give a [removed] one way or another.

 

I am not quite sure, you cant really read emotions in posts, and it may be that it is just as you said, but I have seen it come up a frightening amount of times, and i just thought to adress it, to see if anyone actually does feel that way or they are just making fun

[Elend]

Brandon was only writing down the story from RJ's outline, he did not actually think up the plots, so if RJ was alive, it would be the same pace, KoD was certainly of the same pace.

 

 

I think the first clause of your sentence is why people responded a bit negatively. The word choice of only is what I'm specifically talking about. I actually agree with you for the most part, it's clear that the pace would have been the same based on how well everything meshed together, but the only suggests a disservice to Sanderson.

 

In fact I'd argue that writing a book for a series like tWoT from a set outline would be extremely difficult, much more so than writing your own work. You mess up the characters, we will notice and we will complain. You mess up the setting, we will notice and complain. You mess up the dialogue, we will notice and complain. You can't really defend yourself either and go "well they're my characters" because they aren't. He had to adapt his style to what was already in place. That is difficult.

 

But I do agree with you. The pace was clearly picking up as of Knife of Dreams and if Sanderson actually changed the pace RJ would have written TGS at, it would be extremely clear while reading the book. And it really isn't.

 

Barid just said to me: ''No, you got it spot on''

 

Whoa!!! No one has EVER said that to me here before!!! Is there a Full Moon!!! ;)

 

Fish ;)

 

 

Actually, yes. Or it looked like one when I went to the store an hour or two ago.

 

Is it that there are people exist that feel that way?  Seems like it's just the odd thread here and there, just shootin the [removed] over WHO DA MAN before moving on the next day basically forgetting to remember to give a [removed] one way or another.

 

I am not quite sure, you cant really read emotions in posts, and it may be that it is just as you said, but I have seen it come up a frightening amount of times, and i just thought to adress it, to see if anyone actually does feel that way or they are just taking the piss.

 

Barid, modify your post really fast to remove a certain word you quoted or the mods may attack :O

[Barid Bel Medar]

Brandon was only writing down the story from RJ's outline, he did not actually think up the plots, so if RJ was alive, it would be the same pace, KoD was certainly of the same pace.

 

 

I think the first clause of your sentence is why people responded a bit negatively. The word choice of only is what I'm specifically talking about. I actually agree with you for the most part, it's clear that the pace would have been the same based on how well everything meshed together, but the only suggests a disservice to Sanderson.

 

In fact I'd argue that writing a book for a series like tWoT from a set outline would be extremely difficult, much more so than writing your own work. You mess up the characters, we will notice and we will complain. You mess up the setting, we will notice and complain. You mess up the dialogue, we will notice and complain. You can't really defend yourself either and go "well they're my characters" because they aren't. He had to adapt his style to what was already in place. That is difficult.

 

But I do agree with you. The pace was clearly picking up as of Knife of Dreams and if Sanderson actually changed the pace RJ would have written TGS at, it would be extremely clear while reading the book. And it really isn't.

 

Barid just said to me: ''No, you got it spot on''

 

Whoa!!! No one has EVER said that to me here before!!! Is there a Full Moon!!! ;)

 

Fish ;)

 

 

Actually, yes. Or it looked like one when I went to the store an hour or two ago.

 

Is it that there are people exist that feel that way?  Seems like it's just the odd thread here and there, just shootin the [removed] over WHO DA MAN before moving on the next day basically forgetting to remember to give a [removed] one way or another.

 

I am not quite sure, you cant really read emotions in posts, and it may be that it is just as you said, but I have seen it come up a frightening amount of times, and i just thought to adress it, to see if anyone actually does feel that way or they are just taking the piss.

 

Barid, modify your post really fast to remove a certain word you quoted or the mods may attack :O

 

Thanks for the heads up, I had no idea  :D

 

In regards to your comment, I do agree with what you are saying, and i was in no way saying that Brandon had it easy, the difficulty of the task is not relevant to my point in this. All I was saying is that one cannot credit brandon for the up tempo pace of the PLOT, because RJ had outlined these events.

 

By all means, as you said, it doesnt make Brandons job easy or his work unsignificant, just that he did not do that particular bit of it.

 

However, I will edit the main post and remove only, as it may be seen as a negative comment towards Brandon.

Which, I will stress once again, because i do feel strongly about this, I LOVE BRANDONS WORK, and I think he ahs done an AMAZING JOB with the WoT, he has, as one would say in the WoT, "a duty heavier than a mountain" and he is doing superbly.

 

In fact, I am the most pro-Brandon person out there, completely opposite to what my post may lead others to believe. I would not care if Brandon destroyed the Books completely, we should be greatful he has the guts to stand up and complete a legendary series for the love of the story. To me, Brandon should not be critized in any way. However, it is equally as bad giving Brandon MORE credit than his due.

[mossman87]

To me, Brandon should not be critized in any way. However, it is equally as bad giving Brandon MORE credit than his due.

:o  ???

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

To me, Brandon should not be critized in any way. However, it is equally as bad giving Brandon MORE credit than his due.

:o  ???

 

 

Is there a misunderstanding ?

 

To clarify, I think we shouldnt say "Oh, Brandon didnt do a good job, or, he didnt get this, this and this"

 

However, we also should not say

 

"Oh, Brandon got the story back on track, he defeated the DO and rules the world" (not literal of course, but you get the point.

 

Is there a problem with that?

[mossman87]

I'm just wondering the point of making this post if you feel Brandon shouldn't be criticized.  If he shouldn't be then why this topic?  :-X

[The Fisher King]

''Actually, yes. Or it looked like one when I went to the store an hour or two ago.''

 

... LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!! :)

 

 

Fish

 

 

P.S. - What'd you get at the store???

[Barid Bel Medar]

I'm just wondering the point of making this post if you feel Brandon shouldn't be criticized.  If he shouldn't be then why this topic?   :-X

 

I am not quite sure you fully understand the topic then....

 

It is not a critisism... it is saying people are giving him credit for what RJ did, i do not see how thats critizising him.....

 

Perhaps read the whole thread? Read it closely? I do not know....

[Elend]

''Actually, yes. Or it looked like one when I went to the store an hour or two ago.''

 

... LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!! :)

 

 

Fish

 

 

P.S. - What'd you get at the store???

 

I looked at some manga, played on a Wii a bit, got the soda I came for and left.

[The Fisher King]

Good Stuff!!!

 

 

Fish

[Luckers]

Ok, there are three threads essentially on this topic, and in all three there is some degree of contention, so we are going back to the old rule--there will be no threads specifically for the discussion of RJ vs. BS, no matter what position you take.

 

You may discuss it in other topics if you feel it has relevance to that particular topic (but no threadjacking), but no specific topic on the subject.