ooooh Leanne Sharif's a liaaaar liaaaar, pants on fiiiiire!

[Beer Rot]

Book 2, Chapter 2:

 

Who comes here?

 

Leanne: The Watcher of the Seals, the Flame of Tar Valon, the Amyrlin Seat.

 

 

Wouldn't the first be a lie?  Do we even know if the witches even had a Seal in their possession ever?  Were there Seals in Rand's POV when he was having his flashbacks in Rhuidean?  Or were they lost after the Strike.

[OptimusPrime]

No because Watcher of the Seals is intended as a title of the Amyrlin. If the White Tower was painted brown, they would still call it the White Tower, because they use it as a name.

 

The lying oath prevents you from deliberately lying outright. So, if you think of someone as Watcher of the Seals, you can say it because you arent meaning to lie. If you thought, bizarrely, that Siuan Sanche was the Dragon Reborn, you could call her that outright.

 

It is trying to say something you know to be false that becomes a problem. For example, Leanne could outright say "Siuan Sanche is Watcher of the Seals," but she could not outright say "Siuan watches the seals."

[Beer Rot]

I answered my own question, WT had at least some of the Seals up til the Trolloc Wars.

[mb]

One interpretation of the title could be that she is to be alert for signs of the seals.

 

A past thread speculated about the White Tower having the seals til the Trolloc Wars.

The one found at the Eye and the one found at Rhuidean, those I doubt were ever anywhere else before they were found.

There could have been a chance for the other 5.

 

These 2 pages tell of the seals status::

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/seals.html

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.14_seals-status.html

 

[Beer Rot]

One interpretation of the title could be that she is to be alert for signs of the seals.

 

A past thread speculated about the White Tower having the seals til the Trolloc Wars.

The one found at the Eye and the one found at Rhuidean, those I doubt were ever anywhere else before they were found.

There could have been a chance for the other 5.

 

These 2 pages tell of the seals status::

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/seals.html

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.14_seals-status.html

 

 

hmmm

 

the rhuidean seal may have been a WT seal before the war.  its possible they got it via merchants going into the waste, and a wise one recognized it as something important enough to take to rhuidean... or maybe even something shown via the ter'angreal there.

[mb]

the rhuidean seal may have been a WT seal before the war.  its possible they got it via merchants going into the waste, and a wise one recognized it as something important enough to take to rhuidean... or maybe even something shown via the ter'angreal there.

Things Aiel purchase seem to have been brought to their homes; not to Rhuidean.

Also things they get from out of the Waste.

 

[Leatherleaf]

No because Watcher of the Seals is intended as a title of the Amyrlin. If the White Tower was painted brown, they would still call it the White Tower, because they use it as a name.

 

Agreed. Titles are titles, which may or may not have been relevant at some time or another. For instance, the Lord of the Morning does not literally mean that Lews/Rand owns that time of day. I find the "Watcher of the Seals" title similar to the, "The Dark One and all the Forsaken are bound in Shayol Ghul by the Creator at the moment of creation" that's used, even though that is false. I wish I knew off hand if an Aes Sedai is ever caught saying that, because they should know better...

[MikeRiley]

The Amyrlin is titled the Watcher of the Seals because only she knew the location of the 7 seals on the Dark One's prison. The location of each seal was only lost during the Trolloc Wars when they went through a series of Amyrlins in a short period of time. This is secret knowledge, I don't believe all that many people in Randland know the seals aren't accounted for. It would be a severe hit to the White Tower's prestige to admit they lost the 7 most important items to the continued existence of mankind, so the title stands.

[Beer Rot]

The Amyrlin is titled the Watcher of the Seals because only she knew the location of the 7 seals on the Dark One's prison. The location of each seal was only lost during the Trolloc Wars when they went through a series of Amyrlins in a short period of time. This is secret knowledge, I don't believe all that many people in Randland know the seals aren't accounted for. It would be a severe hit to the White Tower's prestige to admit they lost the 7 most important items to the continued existence of mankind, so the title stands.

 

I don't think they knew where all 7 were, unless they actually knew one seal was with the Nym and EotW.  Don't forget one was had by a Seanchan, and the Aiel.

 

I still think its possible the one in Rhuidean may have been brought there later, added by a Wise One.

[StefanR]

One interpretation of the title could be that she is to be alert for signs of the seals.

 

A past thread speculated about the White Tower having the seals til the Trolloc Wars.

The one found at the Eye and the one found at Rhuidean, those I doubt were ever anywhere else before they were found.

There could have been a chance for the other 5.

 

These 2 pages tell of the seals status::

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/seals.html

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.14_seals-status.html

 

 

hmmm

 

the rhuidean seal may have been a WT seal before the war.  its possible they got it via merchants going into the waste, and a wise one recognized it as something important enough to take to rhuidean... or maybe even something shown via the ter'angreal there.

 

WT didn't exist before or during Rhuidean.

 

It was built during the time when the hall of the servants was still around

[Beer Rot]

One interpretation of the title could be that she is to be alert for signs of the seals.

 

A past thread speculated about the White Tower having the seals til the Trolloc Wars.

The one found at the Eye and the one found at Rhuidean, those I doubt were ever anywhere else before they were found.

There could have been a chance for the other 5.

 

These 2 pages tell of the seals status::

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/seals.html

http://linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.3_one-power/2.3.14_seals-status.html

 

 

hmmm

 

the rhuidean seal may have been a WT seal before the war.  its possible they got it via merchants going into the waste, and a wise one recognized it as something important enough to take to rhuidean... or maybe even something shown via the ter'angreal there.

 

WT didn't exist before or during Rhuidean.

 

It was built during the time when the hall of the servants was still around

 

Construction of Tar Valon began in 98AB, and ended in 202AB.  Going by Rand's POV in Rhuidean, it was constructed roughly the same time.  But that wasn't my point.

 

Some Seals were held by the WT up till the Trolloc Wars.

 

Possibility:

 

1. A merchant some how gets a hold of a Seal (note: Bayle got one the same way), and sells it to an aiel.  A wise one channeler senses its import and has it taken to Rhuidean.

 

2. a wise one in the ter'angreal in rhuidean sees the Seal somewhere and knows it must be in Rhuidean, its found during the aiel war and brought to Rhuidean.

 

3. a dreamer sees the seal and knows it has to be in Rhuidean, has it brought into the city via a apprentice or would be clan chief.

[mb]

According to the guide, the seals were scattered during the Breaking; so none of the seals were in the White Tower since the White Tower was made after the Breaking.

The knowledge of their locations I take was passed to each successive Amyrlin until the Trolloc Wars.