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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Friend found WoT repetitive


SirTownsend
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I'm sorry but RJ's writing (love him to death but..) is simply not of the same caliber as Tolkien's.  Tolkien built a world of such subtle artistry composed of both historical, cultural and linguistic depth that it still causes me to shudder in awe.  RJ is wonderful and entertaining, with a masterful grasp of epic storytelling and complex plotlines, he is probably even more energetic and engaging than Tolkien.  Not the same though.  I have yet to decide what I think of Brandon Sanderson.

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I kind of wish someone like Robert E. Howard had written this: sure, it would have been a very different series...

 

I wish very much Robert E. Howard was still around to write something like this. Ironic, actually, that you mentioned him, since RJ (early on) wrote some Conan. REH had his own tropes, though, and there would be plenty of bosom to go around if he wrote WoT.

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On the reminding people of what had happened earlier in the first books, I think this had a practical reason. RJ did stop doing that later on. Thing is, there weren't so many long series written before RJ, so this large a series was not standard, even though it was supposed to be 5-6 books at first, with the estimate growing with each book. As I think RJ noted in an interview, he was worried the first books would go out of print before the last book came out-- which happens. In order for the end to make sense, early on he had to make sure the rest would someone make sense without the first books. I think he dropped the reminders, was it in Crown of Swords, which I think was about the point where the releases caught up to his writing (he had begun writing around 85 after all, and they started coming every year from around 90) and then he was a big enough name to know all the books would stay in print as the first one has for 20 years now, which is quite an achievement for a fantasy book. So, a little unfortunate he had to do this, but I guess it could not have been done any other way-- back then at least.

 

On the depth, well RJ does use quite a bit of references to all sorts of places, and they are not necessarily only just for fun but actually make sense. For instance, as an easy example, the Forsaken's names, and what they do; the whole Arthurian legend. One can take the references as commentaries or such also.

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I'm sorry but RJ's writing (love him to death but..) is simply not of the same caliber as Tolkien's.  Tolkien built a world of such subtle artistry composed of both historical, cultural and linguistic depth that it still causes me to shudder in awe.  RJ is wonderful and entertaining, with a masterful grasp of epic storytelling and complex plotlines, he is probably even more energetic and engaging than Tolkien.  Not the same though.  I have yet to decide what I think of Brandon Sanderson.

I'm sorry but Tolkien can't hold a candle to RJ. Its not even the same level of quality of writing. Tolkien excelled at a single thing, world building(basics), but his characters were flat, one dimensional, and his interactions between them were lack luster to say the least.

 

Not to meantion everything RJ has put into the books is there for a reason, Tolkien added filler and just left it lie.

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I'm sorry but Tolkien can't hold a candle to RJ. Its not even the same level of quality of writing. Tolkien excelled at a single thing, world building(basics), but his characters were flat, one dimensional, and his interactions between them were lack luster to say the least.

 

Not to meantion everything RJ has put into the books is there for a reason, Tolkien added filler and just left it lie.

 

i agree.

 

i could never finish TLOTR books they were just so agonizingly BORING !!! (i tried 3-4 times only got mid way of book 2)

 

however i could happily read WOT for the rest of my life and never find it boring, gunna go Misery on BS and keep him writing outriggers for the rest of his life

MWahahahahahahah  :D

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the friend. must be gay. or dumb. or stupid. or PRIDEFUL

 

I'd be incredibly careful how you throw around that "g" term, especially on an internet forum.

 

Some of us homosexuals enjoy WoT, I know I do.

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Didn't find it repetitive, but I do agree with some of the points about communication especially between men and women and the attitudes towards the opposite sex.

 

Re RJ's writing, for me the description and "filler" is what makes the books - you can imagine the whole world then, and see it for yourself.  It also adds atmosphere to everything.

 

I would also like to say that I REALLY REALLY wish someone had strangled Nynaeve with her own braid - HORRIBLE woman!!!!!!  Irritating, self-centred, egotistical - grrrrr.  LOL can you guess she was my least favourite character?

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I've now progressed to Book 10, and I've got to say I'm getting increasingly irritated by the constant repetition. To me, it's spoiling a really good story: I'm still hooked, I still want to find out what happens, I'm still enjoying it, for the most part, BUT.... I find it weird that EVERY woman almost everywhere is wearing silks embroidered with flowers: given the diverse races and cultures spread all over this world, don't you think they'd have some DIFFERENT designs to play around with?

Every innkeeper is fat, or "stout".

Too many people have bells in their hair, both men and women. Again, I could accept this as one character's style, but 3 or 4, from different countries?

Too many women have braided hair, with beads in. I keep thinking of Bo Derek LOL.

Too many so called "warriors" have make-up, beauty spots, powdered faces, wigs etc... they're warriors going to war for ****'s sake!

Everyone has far too much lace: what's with the lace obsession? And all the really  bright clashing colours? And men in PINK?!!

 

Given all the over-the-top dress descriptions, the subservient attitude to women, the lace, the bells, the jewellery, the greater number of female characters, and numerous other things, I'm increasingly inclined to believe this series was not written by a man at all, but by a woman! I realise that's probably a sexist thing to say, and one shouldn't over-generalise, but there does seem to be a greater emphasis on femininity throughout the series than one would expect from a male writer. All the males are 'non-threatening', in the same way as they are in the movie Twilight, which is aimed at teenage girls and is based on books by a female writer. I wonder if RJ deliberately wrote this series to appeal to a female audience more than a male? I've read some of his Conan tales, and while they don't copy REH's style, they are still much more 'masculine', compared to WoT.

 

So, while I'm not finding the action that repetitive, it's the stock, formulaic phrases that are driving me nuts, the endless descriptions that are too close to previous descriptions of completely different characters in other parts of the world, that I find so unbelievable. I'm starting to get confused between people now!

 

But I don't want to sound too critical: it's the writing style that I'm not enjoying, the story is great, and I haven't been able to put it down. I do hope the final books will tie up some of the loose ends though.

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Don't compare Twilight to WoT, please.

 

Subservient women in Twilight are a farce and should never have been written as such. Twilight annoys me to no end.  Terrible writing, terrible plot, its Laurel K Hamilton lite.

 

The reason you see people dressing the same and what not, is usually the city they are in.  The people of Randland, WoT, like to be assimilated into the crowd, not stick out. 

 

 

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There is more than one part of the story that is repetitive, and yes it sometimes makes me feel as though smoke is about to roll out of my ears... but on the other hand, they make for a nifty little subculture community for us all to draw from. I find it hard to believe for example the idea that someone could say they were frustrated enough to tug their braid (or whatever WoT cliche you want) and another reader would I would think at the very least smirk to themselves.  Ultimately I guess I find those things, in this series at least, endearing.

 

As to the repetition in fashion, cultural concepts, etc, I think he's actually quite varied.  No, not every little Hamlet has their own thing going, but the festivals of the countries are varied, fashions and cultures between major nations are varied enough to be realistic.  Most of the most similar ones are from countries that are on the same mainland, compared the the completely different styles of the Aiel, Sea Folk, Amayar, Sharans, Seanchan.  Throw in on top of that that it's at least a semi medieval setting... I mean, in that time frame even the people that stood out in a crowd, if someone outside their community were looking in, I would think it quite likely that everyone would look quite similar.

 

The constant battle between the sexes as well... you have to keep in mind that the relationships between the sexes are not the same and do not reflect the society of our world because... well, it's not our world.  It's completely it's own entity, throw in the fact that somewhere I'm pretty sure RJ has said that he wanted to make the world mostly matriarchy based... could be off on that last, but something to that effect I believe.  Not to mention that one of the overall themes of the Wheel of Time is that of cooperation between the sexes for the mutual benefit, and that neither is greater than the other - to that end I believe he's done a excellent job.

 

 

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If only RJ were still alive, I believe he could answer so many questions, expecially about all this.  Could he have made it repetitive for a reason??  Why is there the battle of the sexes in all his books?? And many more.  I just finished the fifth book and now I am starting to notice small things being repeated, but I guess I like the series to much to let it bother me, either that or I'm just good at ignoring things.....But like I said as far as the main plot each book is different in it's own way...at least that's how I see it.

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I think in a large work, a theme that runs through may seem repetitive, but that is because it IS a theme. Most probably the circumstances are different for instance for the "battle of the sexes" through the books. I haven't actually paid that so much mind, I've more seen battle between people or groups of people, but then, I don't so much think a person's gender is so important to the major themes in the book (like the fight against the shadow). Men and women are just two easily distinguishable groups, and also groups of people you can't make the same except by some very heavy operations, but there's plenty of miscommunication to go around elsewhere too.

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