Blade of Light, Three Become One. (Full Spoilers).

[randfandom]

I am unsure about the Seanchan, I can't get a grasp on where Sanderson is taking that thread.. Id say its obvious that they'll be the rulers of the world after the Last Battle, except for the Prophecy about Rand binding the Nine Moons to serve him.

 

They won't rule the world because we have Nicola's foretelling about "the land divided by the return" and the numerous references to south+west vs north+east. Besides, their power system is based on slavery and I just don't see this continuing beyond the LB. Without leashed channelers, will the Seanchan be able to withstand a unified front of Aes Sedai, Ashaman, Wise Ones and Sea Folk, not to mention their miscellanous armies? Even with the damane, they will not be able to in my view. So far they had easy wins against nations and organizations that were in disarray. I don't think they will be able to easily take over lands and nations controlled by Rand, Elayne, the White Tower under Egwene and Black Tower under Logain.

 

I havent forgotten that the Seanchan version of the prophesies say that he must submit himself to the Empress, but that might be the result of tampering by a Forsaken, considering Ishamaels boast that he had influenced even Arthur Hawkwing.

It might come down to a deal between Rand and Fortuona, where she takes over what Rand holds, and in return, the Seanchan empire will follow the Dragon Reborn into the Last Battle.. that way, Rand submits, and binds the nine moons to serve him (in battle).

 

I don't see Rand submitting to anyone. It makes no sense. At the most he may let them keep what they already have. The Seanchan prophecies are corrupted clearly and thus are bound to be proven wrong in the course of the next book.

 

I expect the Seanchan will try to bring the Crystal Throne to the mainland, now that they have Traveling, in order to fulfil the prophecy of Rand kneeling to it. Since it is actually a ter'angreal that induces compulsion, it could be that Fortouna will try to meet with Rand while sitting on the thing, to use its power to subdue him. But I believe that throne will be destroyed, perhaps by Rand breaking the compulsion weave. If Rand could destroy the CK why not a mere ter'angreal? The destruction of the Crystal Throne will both prove that their prophecies are false and take away the Seanchan royals ability to force people to do their will.

 

Something tells me there'll be a clause about outlawing the leashing channelers in there somewhere but I don't see Fortuona bending on that point unless something affects her views on the matter, or makes her more desperate for an agreement with the Dragon Reborn.. I suppose that's a RAFO :P

 

I highly doubt Mat will be ready to join her while slavery is still practiced by the Seanchan, and we know that he was going to be with her post TG (outrigger novels). So the leashing of damane will be gone from the mainland. But my guess is that one of the open threads left in the story (for the outriggers if ever published) would be how the situation in Seanchan itself gets resolved. So there will still be damane across the seas.

 

[Rubberninja]

Certainly interesting point of view. I agree that Mat wont put up with women being leashed, no matter how much he distrusts channelers, but I'm afraid I do not have the advantage of having read any outrigger novels. Id love to, if there's a link or some references?

Is there a FAQ or an interview that confirms the Crystal Throne as a ter'angreal? I remmember the discussions back in the days where it first surfaced, but to my knowledge it was never confirmed.. I would very much like to read up on it.

I think it a lot more likely that such a ter'angreal would put a weave in the room somehow like the one corlan dashiva (aka Osan'gar) used inside the room in Cairhien when Rand went to see Cadsuane, where it made you feel an iminent danger, or  that something was comming. Imagine such a weave to inspire fear, or devotion, respect or subservience towards whoever was sitting on the throne.

As for motive, Rand would want to bend knee to the Empress if it would mean fulfulling the prophesies, keeping the Pattern on track, securing the needed peace before the storm and the needed soldiers to fight off the shadowspawn. Besides that, Rand has just had an epiphany when he visited Ebou Dar, about how the people there were treated and how they responded to the Seanchan rule.

 

Lastly, as far as I remmember, Nicola's foretelling didnt specify when the land would be divided by the return, or if it would be a lasting effect. You might say (and for all practical purposes, I do) that this particular foretelling has come true, and we've gone right past it on the imaginary timeline, what comes after the division might be unity?

[entropic]

@randfandom

I expect the Seanchan will try to bring the Crystal Throne to the mainland, now that they have Traveling, in order to fulfil the prophecy of Rand kneeling to it. Since it is actually a ter'angreal that induces compulsion, it could be that Fortouna will try to meet with Rand while sitting on the thing, to use its power to subdue him.

 

Where does it say that it "induces compulsion"? IIRC, all it does is make one feel great reverence or maybe even inclined to obey, but I would not say that that automatically implies compulsion. Do you have a quote or proof of this?

[dholm]

They'll only have Travelling if they can get it out of Elaida or one of her cronies. While that's certainly possible (even likely, given a long enough timeframe), they probably won't have it just yet.

[Valisbourne]

Last thought of the day for me, then gonna head out.

 

What if this particular prophecy was fulfilled at the end of book 12?  Lord knows he smote the Choden Kal (sp) with enough power to level the face of the planet, that could have been a 'blade of light'.  As for the 3 become 1...  he did sort of make peace with himself, as he was...  as he is and as he used to be.  That's 3 incarnations of himself (so to speak) that are now one person. (to help that 3 person distinction, listing the voices in Rand's head :  1)  Rand himself, as he is now.  2) the tiny whisper, conscience, etc..  Rand as he used to be,  3)  LTT, Rand as he was before he died last Age)

 

[Mr. Dragon]

 

From TGS

 

"The girl is correct." Cadsuane sounded surprised. "What this child sees are weavings in the Pattern from a time still distant -- but if the Dark One wins, he will destroy the Pattern entirely. This is the only way the visions could fail to occur. The same holds for other prophecies and Foretellings. Our victory is by no means sure."

 

I actually said at some point in the forums, before the release, that Min's veiwings can be wrong, to which all the other posters said I was wrong at that the viewings were always right. So for that reason on it's own I think it's a good scene :P.

 

Last thought of the day for me, then gonna head out.

 

What if this particular prophecy was fulfilled at the end of book 12?  Lord knows he smote the Choden Kal (sp) with enough power to level the face of the planet, that could have been a 'blade of light'.  As for the 3 become 1...  he did sort of make peace with himself, as he was...  as he is and as he used to be.  That's 3 incarnations of himself (so to speak) that are now one person. (to help that 3 person distinction, listing the voices in Rand's head :  1)  Rand himself, as he is now.  2) the tiny whisper, conscience, etc..  Rand as he used to be,  3)  LTT, Rand as he was before he died last Age)

 

I was thinking along similar lines but that the incident at the end with the Chodan Kal was only 2 of the 3 parts that are going to merge (the prophecy never says that the three merge into one at the same time), the 2 parts being Rand as he is and the more general Dragon spirit (ie all the memories of past Dragons). What the third part is I don't know but my money would be on something that is not corporeal.

 

 

[randfandom]

Where does it say that it "induces compulsion"? IIRC, all it does is make one feel great reverence or maybe even inclined to obey, but I would not say that that automatically implies compulsion. Do you have a quote or proof of this?

 

I believe that RJ confirmed that it's a ter'angreal and that it induces compulsion. There are several quotations throughout the series implying that the total obedience in the presence of the empress (and apparently after) is due to this throne.

 

Here is one from The Thirteenth depository:

 

The Crystal Throne is a great ter’angreal in Seanchan that causes anyone who approaches it to feel immense awe and wonder. Only the reigning monarch of Seanchan is allowed to use it (The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time). When the Empress speaks from the Crystal Throne, her word is law (Winter’s Heart, What A Veil Hides). Few people can shake off the awe and the urge to obey they feel when kneeling before the Crystal Throne (The Path of Daggers, A Time For Iron). Perhaps holding the Power makes a channeller resistant, since Semirhage was unaffected by the ter’angreal (Robert Jordan at a (Knife of Dreams, booksigning) and even killed the Empress while she sat on the Throne (Knife of Dreams, Prologue).

 

This description sounds exactly like what happens as a result of compulsion - a weave that makes people behave and feel what the weaver wants them to, not even realizing what is happening, and that spell persists even after the person laying the weave has left. It matches closely what Nynaeve and Elayne experienced when Moghedien laid compulsion on them. And the fact that holding the power makes you resistant to the impact - again we have seen that as well with Rand and Alanna, from forsaken's PoV, etc.

 

The Seanchan Prophecies of the Dragon say that the Dragon Reborn must kneel before the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai'don, or all is lost (Winter’s Heart, What A Veil Hides) (see Prophecies of the Dragon article). Rand may yet kneel before Tuon as embodiment of the Crystal Throne, or Tuon may decide this prophecy should be fulfilled literally and send a ship back for it or, once she obtains Travelling from the Tower damane, obtain it by gateway (thus also stymieing anyone in Seanchan from taking it themselves).

 

Cool, looks like the 13th depository leaders have the same theory as I proposed here...

 

However, I doubt that Fortouna knows it's a ter'angreal, just as she is ignorant of the problem with the prophecies - I don't even know if she is aware that the mainland prophecies differ from hers. She knows she needs the throne to fulfil the Seanchan prophecies and it's too dangerous to try bring the DR to Seanchan, so I expect she will try to get the throne to the mainland.

[emyali]

mmm

a new thought just hit me

 

"He shall hold a blade of light in his hands" 

 

Rand now have just one hand  :-\ (not hands) then maybe he is not even the one to fullfill this prophecy  :-\ ??? ???

 

 

 

 

i think im going to be insane before the end of the series ::) i woke up at the middle of the night thinking about the book :S

[Sentinel78]

Rand now have just one hand  (not hands) then maybe he is not even the one to fullfill this prophecy   

 

Yeah I posted on that earlier (before this thread was made).  To me, it supported a Moridin bodyswap theory.  After Moridin/Rand merge, Rand's 'body' dies, but he lives again in Moridin's body with two hands and completes the prophecy by using Callandor in some manner to re-seal the DO.

[Mr. Dragon]

Rand now have just one hand   (not hands) then maybe he is not even the one to fullfill this prophecy   

 

Yeah I posted on that earlier (before this thread was made).  To me, it supported a Moridin bodyswap theory.  After Moridin/Rand merge, Rand's 'body' dies, but he lives again in Moridin's body with two hands and completes the prophecy by using Callandor in some manner to re-seal the DO.

 

Or, more likely IMO, it means that the time where the event/events where the prophecy is fulfilled in, are between when Rand pulls the sword from the Stone and when he dies.

[Nargsmart]

This is kind of off topic but...

 

A lot of talk on this thread seems to be about Rand+two women+Callandor.  Earlier on, when Cadsuane reveals the Callandor flaw, she says the only safe way to weild Callandor is in a circle with two women with one of them weilding the flows. 

 

Could she have been lying?

Not actual lying, sneaky Aes Sedai Lying.  She is from Far Madding after all.  She may think that it just isn't safe to trust a man with that much power.  And she didn't want Rand running around with Callandor blowing things up. 

 

Plus it would be really, really lame if Rand wasn't the one weaving the flowes at TG...

[ed2funy]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this....but...

 

It takes two women to guide the flows because Callandor doesn't have the barrier that will stop someone from burning themselves out or something...

Cadsuane says:

It is flawed...lacking the buffer that makes other sa'angreal safe to use. And it apparently magnifies the taint, including wildness of the mind. So long as a man is using it anyway. The only safe way to use The Sword That Is Not A Sword, the only way to use it without the risk of killing yourself, or trying to do the Light alone knows what insanity, is linked with two woman, and one of them guiding the flows

 

now, besides the risk of over-drawing....the taint is gone...he has less of a risk in using Callandor...

 

He was able not to over-draw before....could he not draw enough power until he felt the pain that warns him that he should be careful....

 

Although I believe the prophecy means the use of Callandor, could it be that he doesn't necessarily have to use it with two other women???

 

she said it pretty straight forward....

unless she is just wrong...

[Morsker]

I'm thinking it's is Nynaeve, Alivia, and Rand, with Nynaeve leading to heal the wound in Rand's side. Rand is tied to the land, and healing the wound will heal the Bore. The Seals have to be broken before the wound can be healed, and maybe it has to happen at Shayol Ghul; that would give more tie-in to the prophecies, and a reason to involve armies for a cooler ending. If the Healing kills Rand, it explains why Alivia is there. (There's also a cool duality between Nynaeve as a healer and Alivia as a destroyer.) If not, it's someone else and Alivia comes later.

 

This explains why the Wheel bound the Dragon to the land at all; so far it's been good for nothing but spoiling food. It ought to be useful for something too, and what fits better than healing the Bore? It also gives a more satisfying reason for why Rand's can't lead the circle with Callandor: Nynaeve leads to heal him. Cadsuane's theory, that men can't be trusted and have to be controlled, is obnoxious.

 

[ed2funy]

I'm thinking it's is Nynaeve, Alivia, and Rand, with Nynaeve leading to heal the wound in Rand's side. Rand is tied to the land, and healing the wound will heal the Bore. The Seals have to be broken before the wound can be healed, and maybe it has to happen at Shayol Ghul; that would give more tie-in to the prophecies, and a reason to involve armies for a cooler ending. If the Healing kills Rand, it explains why Alivia is there. (There's also a cool duality between Nynaeve as a healer and Alivia as a destroyer.) If not, it's someone else and Alivia comes later.

 

This explains why the Wheel bound the Dragon to the land at all; so far it's been good for nothing but spoiling food. It ought to be useful for something too, and what fits better than healing the Bore? It also gives a more satisfying reason for why Rand's can't lead the circle with Callandor: Nynaeve leads to heal him. Cadsuane's theory, that men can't be trusted and have to be controlled, is obnoxious.

 

 

That is a good theory, the best I have heard....it makes a lot of sense...

 

tho maybe fain has to die too, before the wound can be healed...but the staff wound could be connected to the Bore....

interesting....

[ed2funy]

Maybe rand will die...and Nyn will finally heal the thing that could never be healed....

 

It seems like something that has been building up for her..

[Morsker]

I was thinking towards how Rand gets revived too, but he can't be channeling in a circle when he's dead so it has to come after the Callandor prophecy.

 

The other thing about Nynaeve healing the Bore by proxy through healing Rand's wound is that it may satisfy the foreshadowing that Nynaeve uses Healing to do something amazing. I wouldn't really need to see Nynaeve heal death then; this would be enough.

[ed2funy]

Well, maybe he can channel when dead....jk...

lol..of course it would have to be after....

 

I personally love Nyn's healing story.....wanting to heal everything...

I think both healing his wound (and by proxy the Bore) would be awesome, but id rand dies and she heals that...it wold be great...

 

Healing death could be the little thing....sure they have always talked about it..but it isn't until Salidar that Nyn heals Gentling (stilling)....so who knows

[Morsker]

That is a good theory, the best I have heard....it makes a lot of sense...

 

tho maybe fain has to die too, before the wound can be healed...but the staff wound could be connected to the Bore....

interesting....

 

I'm glad you like it. :) I feel like Fain should be part of it too, but I'm not sure how to work Fain into healing Rand's wound. It's possible Fain is just backup in case Rand goes to the Shadow, and that the "Fain kills evil Rand with the dagger and closes the Bore" ending is mutually exclusive with the "Circle-of-three heals good Rand and heals the Bore" ending. We know the Age can end multiple ways, and we're only going to get one of those ways in the story.

[ed2funy]

I think in the scenario of good Rand being healed, Bore gets healed, that Fain must die as he carries the last vestiges of Mordeth's power....

 

He must die for Nyn to Heal that scratch....

then she can Heal the wound/Bore....

 

Rand will die....she will Heal him back to life...

[jadelollipop]

I like the idea of Nynaeve healing the Bore by finally healing the wounds in Rand's side.  I always thought that the wounds would rupture at Shayol Gul (thus being blood of dragon spilled at SG) while allowing Rand to live....I do think he will survive TG...

I have wondered if he would fake his death (Min's funeral byre vision)

[emyali]

 

I have wondered if he would fake his death (Min's funeral byre vision)

 

in CoS Egwene dreamed of "A man lies dying on a narrow bed. It's important that he not die, but funeral pyre is prepared."

maybe thats related to ur point

but in this case he is not faking, he is really dying but not quiet dead yet

[WolfDragonFox]

I think in the scenario of good Rand being healed, Bore gets healed, that Fain must die as he carries the last vestiges of Mordeth's power....

 

He must die for Nyn to Heal that scratch....

then she can Heal the wound/Bore....

 

Rand will die....she will Heal him back to life...

 

I really like this.  The wound comparissons to the last two remnants of evil are nice parallels.  Remember that Rand used the the evil of Shadar Logoth to counteract and thus negate the taint on Saidin so it seems logical that maybe history though recent is meant to repeat because we know Fain hates the Dark One just as much as the hate or more for the ta'varen boys (rand especially) So why not have the wounds burst open and have him bleading there on the rocks of Shayol Ghul and what they do is seal Fain in the bore with the Dark One and have them kill each other for all time. Then the evil of the wounds will be gone and Nynaeve can heal rands side like she has always wanted to.  Nice post man.

[ed2funy]

Morsker had the original idea....

 

Then, we both expanded on it....

but yes, i think it is a good idea...

[TheLastDon]

I think the "epic heal" theory is as good as any on here. But I think that Rand's blood (specifically the Fain wound) will have to spilled in the Pit of Doom prior to Fain's death. I agree that Fain/Moredith have to die before the dagger wound could be healed, but the evil of it does have a unique reaction to the DO so it would make sense that it has some major part to play in the FB. Rand's blood still with the taint will Fain's dagger will keep the dark one occupied so to speak while everything else happens.

 

Nyv doesn't have the power to "heal the dead" or heal the bore either on her own. But in a circle w/ Rand and Alivia (she's there since his "bleeding" will help him die) with Callie she just be able to do it.

 

I really want to put Moraine in this but I'm pretty sure her part to play in the last battle is knowledge of how to win/seal the bore versus power.

[mossman87]

I think the "epic heal" theory is as good as any on here. But I think that Rand's blood (specifically the Fain wound) will have to spilled in the Pit of Doom prior to Fain's death. I agree that Fain/Moredith have to die before the dagger wound could be healed, but the evil of it does have a unique reaction to the DO so it would make sense that it has some major part to play in the FB. Rand's blood still with the taint will Fain's dagger will keep the dark one occupied so to speak while everything else happens.

 

Nyv doesn't have the power to "heal the dead" or heal the bore either on her own. But in a circle w/ Rand and Alivia (she's there since his "bleeding" will help him die) with Callie she just be able to do it.

 

I really want to put Moraine in this but I'm pretty sure her part to play in the last battle is knowledge of how to win/seal the bore versus power.

 

Depends on what we consider bringing back from the dead.

 

Birgitte was basically "dead" when Nyn watched Moghedien rip her out of T'a'R and gave her life.  I still believe people overlook that way too much, or at least don't consider how big an event it is.

 

A whacked out theory would be Rand bleeding to death on the rocks in Shayol Ghul, having Alivia helping him die by balefiring him so the DO can't grab his soul, and Nynaeve realizing what she saw Moghedien do to a hero of the horn, going into T'A'R and ripping him back out without anyone knowing he's alive.

 

Just made that in my head now, won't happen but made me laugh for a second.