Cadsuane, Nynaeve and Min. (Full Book Spoilers)

[Morsmordre]

Which means that Gawyn won't do what he's supposed to do (meaning, help Elayne on controlling Andor).

 

In TGS we could see very clearly that Min is not much of a threat. I actually feel a little sorry for her now, when she realized how powerless she is. I think that we're going to see more of her, not necessarily a physical power. Knowledge is often more useful than fists. I think that she's going to discover something of great importance to Rand.

 

sadly, I agree with this. Min will probably find something in her books. damn >:(

Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince, but whose to say Elayne won't just say Egwene needs you more than i do. I think Galad will end up in charge of the Whitecloaks. Things and times are changing for Randland.

 

Galad is already in charge of the Whitecloaks. KoD, Prologue?

Yes, Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince but I think there's a great deal of possibility here that Gawyn will be the First Prince AND a Warder of Egweene. It won't be the first time where the storyline puts two characters who we all want to see together in two different places for a very long amount of time. For example, I've always wanted Rand to have Alanna at his side, not only Min. Lan has had been so far away from Nyneave for three books. Moiraine is still in the flaming Tower of Genjei. Aviendha was so close to Rand in TGS and yet there were no chapters with dialogs between them. Shall I continue with Perrin, Matt, Elayne etc.?

[thewalrus777]

Which means that Gawyn won't do what he's supposed to do (meaning, help Elayne on controlling Andor).

 

In TGS we could see very clearly that Min is not much of a threat. I actually feel a little sorry for her now, when she realized how powerless she is. I think that we're going to see more of her, not necessarily a physical power. Knowledge is often more useful than fists. I think that she's going to discover something of great importance to Rand.

 

sadly, I agree with this. Min will probably find something in her books. damn >:(

Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince, but whose to say Elayne won't just say Egwene needs you more than i do. I think Galad will end up in charge of the Whitecloaks. Things and times are changing for Randland.

 

Galad is already in charge of the Whitecloaks. KoD, Prologue?

Yes, Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince but I think there's a great deal of possibility here that Gawyn will be the First Prince AND a Warder of Egweene. It won't be the first time where the storyline puts two characters who we all want to see together in two different places for a very long amount of time. For example, I've always wanted Rand to have Alanna at his side, not only Min. Lan has had been so far away from Nyneave for three books. Moiraine is still in the flaming Tower of Genjei. Aviendha was so close to Rand in TGS and yet there were no chapters with dialogs between them. Shall I continue with Perrin, Matt, Elayne etc.?

 

This is true.  ;D

[Morsmordre]

Btw, any thoughts on Min's vision about Nyneave? Could somebody please remind me the exact words? It was something about Nyneave standing over a man's body and crying... Is this Lan? Rand? Matt? Perrin? Tam? I think it's Tam :/

[thewalrus777]

Btw, any thoughts on Min's vision about Nyneave? Could somebody please remind me the exact words? It was something about Nyneave standing over a man's body and crying... Is this Lan? Rand? Matt? Perrin? Tam? I think it's Tam :/

 

I would imagine the man she would be crying over, is Lan. I mean he is her husband after all.

[Morsmordre]

Naaaaaah :/ Pls, Brandon Sanderson, sir! Don't kill Lan :/

[metaphor]

 

 

I would imagine the man she would be crying over, is Lan. I mean he is her husband after all.

 

so Nynaeve wouldn't cry over Rand, or Mat, or Perrin, or Egwene, or any person she cares about because they are not their husband? What kind of insensitive and self centered person do you think Nyn is?

Of course she would cry for Rand.

And anyway the vision didn't say she would cry, but that she would have a mournful expression. And that happens whenever she fails to save someone.

For all we know it could refer to the boy Compelled by Greandal.

[jadelollipop]

I thought the vision in question was one of the "might have beens" It happened when Rand attacked Tam and disappeared when Rand left for Ebou Dar.  Nynaeve and Min were with Cadsuane at the time. Then Tam came in.  IIRC

[Morsmordre]

The vision was long after the boy was dead. There is no point in pointing out a vision of something that has already happened :/ You're right, though, that Nyneave usually gets this expression on her face when she fails to save somebody. I can't wait for the next book :/

[lordofsoup]

Which means that Gawyn won't do what he's supposed to do (meaning, help Elayne on controlling Andor).

 

In TGS we could see very clearly that Min is not much of a threat. I actually feel a little sorry for her now, when she realized how powerless she is. I think that we're going to see more of her, not necessarily a physical power. Knowledge is often more useful than fists. I think that she's going to discover something of great importance to Rand.

 

sadly, I agree with this. Min will probably find something in her books. damn >:(

Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince, but whose to say Elayne won't just say Egwene needs you more than i do. I think Galad will end up in charge of the Whitecloaks. Things and times are changing for Randland.

 

Galad is already in charge of the Whitecloaks. KoD, Prologue?

Yes, Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince but I think there's a great deal of possibility here that Gawyn will be the First Prince AND a Warder of Egweene. It won't be the first time where the storyline puts two characters who we all want to see together in two different places for a very long amount of time.

 

couldent they just solve this by making Rand her First Prince of the Sword, he is royal blood. 

[thewalrus777]

Which means that Gawyn won't do what he's supposed to do (meaning, help Elayne on controlling Andor).

 

In TGS we could see very clearly that Min is not much of a threat. I actually feel a little sorry for her now, when she realized how powerless she is. I think that we're going to see more of her, not necessarily a physical power. Knowledge is often more useful than fists. I think that she's going to discover something of great importance to Rand.

 

sadly, I agree with this. Min will probably find something in her books. damn >:(

Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince, but whose to say Elayne won't just say Egwene needs you more than i do. I think Galad will end up in charge of the Whitecloaks. Things and times are changing for Randland.

 

Galad is already in charge of the Whitecloaks. KoD, Prologue?

Yes, Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince but I think there's a great deal of possibility here that Gawyn will be the First Prince AND a Warder of Egweene. It won't be the first time where the storyline puts two characters who we all want to see together in two different places for a very long amount of time.

 

couldent they just solve this by making Rand her First Prince of the Sword, he is royal blood. 

 

This is also tru. Rand can do it as well.

[Crael123]

but rand is not in the royal family, or is that not one of the requirements

[thewalrus777]

but rand is not in the royal family, or is that not one of the requirements

 

But he is.  If Galad can do it, so can Rand. They are half-brothers. Both of the Royal bloodlines of Andor.

[SimpleJo]

but rand is not in the royal family, or is that not one of the requirements

 

But he is.  If Galad can do it, so can Rand. They are half-brothers. Both of the Royal bloodlines of Andor.

More like distant cousins.  Rand's connection to Ishtara?  Is a lot more distant than Galad's and Elayne's.  He was desperately trying to find this out so that he knew without guilt that he wasn't going to do the incest thing with Elayne.

[randfandom]

but rand is not in the royal family, or is that not one of the requirements

But he is.  If Galad can do it, so can Rand. They are half-brothers. Both of the Royal bloodlines of Andor.

More like distant cousins.  Rand's connection to Ishtara?  Is a lot more distant than Galad's and Elayne's.  He was desperately trying to find this out so that he knew without guilt that he wasn't going to do the incest thing with Elayne.

 

Is there a requirement for the first prince to be a blood brother of the queen? If so, then only Galad or Gawyn could be. If not, what about the queen's husband (which I imagine Rand will become)?

Not that I think Rand has the time or inclination to become first prince of the sword - there are a few higher priorities on his agenda...

Galad and Rand are both sons of Tigraine who was the daughter heir of Andor, so they have the exact same claim to Andoran Royal bloodline (as measured by number of links to Ishara, though Galad was born within a legal marriage and Rand is a bastard by birth - would that matter?). However, I think this only matters to females since men can't ascend the throne...

 

However, the only person alive who even suspects Rand's family relationship is Rand himself, and he has not divulged the information to anyone. Even if he had, how can he prove his heritage when he has no physical evidence of any kind?

[randfandom]

Galad is already in charge of the Whitecloaks. KoD, Prologue?

 

This actually raises the chances that he ends as the first prince, because of the agreement that Morgase signed with Pedron Nyal before he died, that effectively gave the Whiteclocks a base in Andor. Since they lost Amador to the Seanchan, are greatly reduced in numbers and are no longer opposed to Aes Sedai, it won't be too much of a surprise if they end up taking her up on it - I am willing to bet that Balwer has the contract with him somewhere safe...

 

Yes, Gawyn is supposed to be the First Prince but I think there's a great deal of possibility here that Gawyn will be the First Prince AND a Warder of Egweene. It won't be the first time where the storyline puts two characters who we all want to see together in two different places for a very long amount of time.

 

How? Being warder to Egwene is a fulltime responsibility. Likewise first prince of the sword (who is the top commander of Andor's armies). How can he do both? Moreover, the first prince of the sword must be "bonded to no one" according to Bryne.

 

Me, I think Gawyn will end up as neither. He broke every vow he has ever made and betrayed every cause and person he stood for. He has also shown only mediocre talent for high military command - being tops in one-on-one combat and commanding a small force is not the same as running an army and making strategic decisions - and we have seen no indication that he has any skill in the later. He has nothing left to him except his irrational hatred of Rand. I see him trying to kill Rand in the next book and perhaps dying as a consequence (self inflicted?). No big loss in my book. :-)

 

For example, I've always wanted Rand to have Alanna at his side, not only Min.

Why would he want her? He views her, correctly, as the equivalent of a rapist - she forced the bond on him. Having her around just reminds him of that betrayal. I think he is quite generous in his treatment of her already, in letting her perform tasks for him. I totally understand not wanting to be a minute longer in her company than he has to. Not to mention that being near her gives her a lot of information on his emotional state and exact location at any moment, which she can - and does - pass on to other interested parties without his consent.

I think she'll die in the next book - poor Rand will have warder rage to deal with on top of everything else...

[Dragons_Eggman]

 

Me, I think Gawyn will end up as neither. He broke every vow he has ever made and betrayed every cause and person he stood for. He has also shown only mediocre talent for high military command - being tops in one-on-one combat and commanding a small force is not the same as running an army and making strategic decisions - and we have seen no indication that he has any skill in the later. He has nothing left to him except his irrational hatred of Rand. I see him trying to kill Rand in the next book and perhaps dying as a consequence (self inflicted?). No big loss in my book. :-)

 

 

I dunno if you could call it irrational as he believes that Rand killed his mother (it may seem irrational from our viewpoint, but we have all the information). IMO he will end up bonded to Egwene in keeping with her true dream (or it might have been one of Min's visions), yes he has made mistakes but those mistakes were based on what he believed was what his sister and Egwene wanted.

 

While I have never been a huge fan of him I believe he is coming good and his hatred of Rand should disappear once he learns that his mother is still alive. It will be interesting to see where his story arc goes from here.

[Sharaman]

but rand is not in the royal family, or is that not one of the requirements

 

But he is.  If Galad can do it, so can Rand. They are half-brothers. Both of the Royal bloodlines of Andor.

More like distant cousins.  Rand's connection to Ishtara?  Is a lot more distant than Galad's and Elayne's.  He was desperately trying to find this out so that he knew without guilt that he wasn't going to do the incest thing with Elayne.

 

Galad and Rand have the same mother. Since she was the daughter-heir, Rand's connect is good enough, if royal blood is all you need.

But I thought the First Prince had to be the brother of the Queen, which Rand definitely is not.

Galad is the Lord Captain Commander of one WC faction but another one is controlled by Asunawa, who may just be a DF or equally bad.

 

[randfandom]

I dunno if you could call it [Gawyns hatred of Rand] irrational as he believes that Rand killed his mother (it may seem irrational from our viewpoint, but we have all the information).

It is irrational since he made up his mind based on rumors and refuses to listen to any counter arguments or evidence from people that he actually trusts and loves - Egwene and Bryne. Is it rational to believe the prattle of some peddler (see prologue of book 6) but reject the evidence shown him by Egwene who was actually with Rand at the time?

 

IMO he will end up bonded to Egwene in keeping with her true dream (or it might have been one of Min's visions), yes he has made mistakes but those mistakes were based on what he believed was what his sister and Egwene wanted.

Egwene's dreams of him always have shown him making two choices and she never knows which one he will choose. Min's viewings of him are the same. There are several forks in front of him as well. He could become Egwene's warder (though that did not seem to be her choice in the end of tGS) and yet try to kill Rand and/or die after. In some ways this would be a good thing - I think Egwene is brilliant but lacks care and compassion. Some heartbreak would do her character good.

 

While I have never been a huge fan of him I believe he is coming good and his hatred of Rand should disappear once he learns that his mother is still alive. It will be interesting to see where his story arc goes from here.

I don't see him coming good at all. He abandoned his troops without a second thought upon hearing of Egwene's capture, refuses to treat her with respect - nevermind that she is Amyrlin, but even just plain acknowledging her as an adult who can make her own decisions. He is as focused in his hatred of Rand as ever and even muses that if neither Elayne nor Egwene want him, he will dedicate himself to finding Rand and killing him. This I suspect is what will happen next.

He will discover his mother is alive - but I think this will take place after he tries to kill Rand - this will just lead him further down the insanity path.

[Crael123]

I will agree with everyone that Gawyn is very.... impulsive. he abandons his troops that are of HIS creation to die because his girlfriend MIGHT be in trouble.... when he gets his girlfriend he refuses to treat her like anything except a child.... he could care less about his sister and his responsibility to her.... he is very unreliable in almost every way.... his hatred for Rand is on the basis of some far fetched rumor from some lying peddler who is Demondred in disguise.... he is a naive impulsive child that is wearing his fathers trousers if you catch my drift. I hope he dies. 

[Sharaman]

All very well but this is off-topic here ain't it.

Maybe the whole love/ hate Gawyn thing should be in the White Tower thread or Prophesies or somewhere else.  

Cad, Nyn and Min don't have much connect with Egwene=Gawyn

[lordofsoup]

come on if Gawyn tried to kill Rand he would end up dead, which is no better than he would deserve.  He is irrational and never thinks about the consequences.  Besides Rand, the Forsaken, Fain, and maybe Taim, he is the most crazy person in the series, and he doesnt even suffer from the taint.

[Durinax]

I could see Gawyn trying to challenge rand to a duel, and rand kickin his butt even with the loss of a hand

[lordofsoup]

I wish i could agree, cuz i hate Gwayn, but I havent seen Rand in hand to hand combat, since he lost his hand, and Gwayn is very good as a swordsman.  But there was that Aeilman, who taught at one of Rand's camps, either the Legion of the Dragon or the BT who had one hand. 

[Durinax]

yeah but doesnt rand also have training in using his hands and feet, maybe that will give him a tiny bit of an edge. . . but probly not

[Morsmordre]

Rand didn't lose his sword hand. He was thought by Lan to use both hands on the grip but, as his primary sword hand is still there, there is a possibility that he renovates his sword training but with one hand. He would still be better than Gawyn :D