Bonds, Bonds, and More Bonds

[Seven of Nine]

Bonds, bonds, everywhere a bond . . . .  I’m all into foreshadowing, and I’m curious about the bonds in WoT series and now those may give us some hints about what might happen in the next three books.

 

Warder Bonds. From Wikipedia:

 

The Warder bond has distinct benefits for both parties. The bonded party (the Warder) gains greater stamina and physical prowess, a greater capacity to resist evil, and greater resistance to injury (as well as the proximity of his Aes Sedai, who can probably Heal whatever injuries he does take). The Aes Sedai, for her part, gains a bodyguard, confidant and ally-in-schemes who is intrinsically linked to her and whose behavior can be controlled (to some extent) through the bond. She is also able to draw on the warder's strength if needed. Both parties are able to sense the other's general location, physical well-being and, to some extent, emotional state. Of course, this in itself can cause problems, should one party or the other become intoxicated or involved in romantic liaisons. Death is also a major occupational hazard; if one member of the bond is killed, the other suffers extreme emotional trauma, to the point that most orphaned Warders lose all will to live, and often throw away their lives in a berserker rage. . .

 

The bond gives the Warder heightened abilities to go without food, water, and rest, and the ability to withstand wounds that would kill ordinary men. They also appear to gain some semblance of the ability channelers have to detect Shadowspawn. Both individuals are able to detect certain emotional and physical states about the other, and they have an unerring ability to locate the other's relative direction from their current location.

 

Having warders is something new to this age and is not something the Forsaken are very familiar with. Warders (until recently) have always been men.

 

My take on Warders is that they are extremely dedicated to their ASs. I’m not sure that this comes just from their training or if there’s something in the bond itself that does this. There are hints that it does in the later books, though Rand, who was forcibly bonded by Alanna, doesn’t feel anything but anger toward her (no wonder) and certainly no dedication.

 

A new twist has been added to the Warder Bond by Ashaman bonding AS. It makes me laugh a little that the only way the men have figured out to bond the women is by kissing them (thanks to Ashaman Canler who bonded his wife, so they could keep in touch better when they were apart).

 

It’s also interesting to note that the Ashaman bonding of the AS appears to have resulted in some viable working relations between the men and women (and maybe some romances). Considering that many of these women are Red Ajah, that’s pretty amazing. Does that come from the bonding itself, from having the emotional connection with each other, or a more psychological captive mentality?

 

There books are full of people who are focused on power and status. Men who could channel have been put down as a menace to society for 3,000 years, but the removal of the taint is supposed to change that--at least the menace to society part. It's much more difficult to overcome the fear of generations. Yet it is critical, imho, that men and women work together as different but equal partners if they are to overcome the DO. With the bonding now going both ways, it will be interesting to see how this improves relationships between the black and white towers.

 

I must admit I would LOVE to Elaida bonded. But who is bad enough to want to force her on? Hmmmm . . . perhaps Taim would deserve it.  8)

 

Aiel First-Sister Bonds (there are probably first-brother bonds too)

This is a ceremony using the One Power to create a connection that is not unlike a Warder bond.

 

Rand-Elayne-Aviendha-Min Bond

This bond is interesting because Elayne bases it upon the Aiel adoption weaves, but “These were not the weaves used in the adoption ceremony, but they used the same principles. They included; what happened to one meshed in that weave, happened to all in it.” She knows how to do the traditional Warder Bond weave because she used it to bond Birgitte to save her life. Elayne obviously wanted more from this bond

 

What makes this especially interesting is that after linking with Aviendha, Elayne creates her weave and then Aviendha does it, too, and merges the weaves together. “Four weaves, or rather three now, yet they all seemed the same weave.” It seems as though the girls are reinforcing each other’s bonds to strengthen them. If that’s the case, is it inconsistent that Min (and the other two) did not appear to feel Rand’s pain more when he lost his hand? Min's sympathy came across as the compassion anyone might have for a loved one’s body had just been mutilated.

 

Mat and Eelfinn and Aelfinn  http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/2_nondark/2.6_what-up-nondark/2.6.3_finn.html

In KoD, Mat had an epiphany, where he reached the conclusion that the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn are in his head, feeding him those memories and perhaps seeing things through his eyes.

 

Rand / Moridin Bond

Since Rand’s and Moridin’s Balefire streams crossed at Shadar Logoth, Rand’s been having trouble with the power (like Lews Therin trying to grab it all the time isn’t enough). He’s queasy and the Power is sometimes slippery and hard to control. Initially after this incident, Lews Therin was rather quiet. When Rand started hearing a voice again, some suggested it wasn’t LTT at all and that Rand now has someone else in his head. This theory has been strengthened by an image in Rand’s mind that has gradually developed into the face of a man—Moridin? There are also hints that this crossing of Balefire streams may be affecting Moridin as well in that he doesn’t use the One Power anymore. Perhaps because he, too, is having “issues” with it?

 

The implications of some of these new bonds are huge.

 

*  If there’s an emotional connection with the traditional Warder bond, and if the (marriage?) bond Rand has with his ladies is so much more, why don’t the ladies appear to be getting more information about Rand’s emotional state?

*  What would happen to the women if Rand is forcibly turned (13+13)?

*  With the emotional connection they share, what does this mean for them with Rand’s declining mental/emotional stability? If Elayne, for example, can pick up Birgitte’s intoxication, why not Rand’s pending insanity?

*  Could their united sanity help to keep him from completely losing it?

*  With the Rand/Moridin link, what is Moridin experiencing?

*  Is it a connection that might benefit the dark side, such as is it something that gives them a direct connection to Rand, perhaps making it easier to turn him?

*  Can one break a link like this? If so, how? Death only?

*  Is the connection something that weakens Moridin and therefore the dark side?

*  Are the Finn really seeing things through Mat’s eyes?

*  If yes, will that be a disadvantage in that little trip to rescue Moiraine?

*  Or is there a chance Mr. Lucky could turn it to his advantage?

 

[nnokwoodeye]

For a moment I thought this thread would be about the various James Bond(s)  :D

[Ahaz Flagg]

*  If there’s an emotional connection with the traditional Warder bond, and if the (marriage?) bond Rand has with his ladies is so much more, why don’t the ladies appear to be getting more information about Rand’s emotional state?

 

A few things come to mind here, it is bonding, but not the same bond, that is the big issue here.  Also, masking can be in play, I also am pretty sure distance is a biggy. Min certianly knows what he feels at most times.

 

 

*  What would happen to the women if Rand is forcibly turned (13+13)?

 

Impossible, we know for a fact the dark one wins, end of story.

 

*  With the emotional connection they share, what does this mean for them with Rand’s declining mental/emotional stability? If Elayne, for example, can pick up Birgitte’s intoxication, why not Rand’s pending insanity?

 

It is almost certian, the reason Elayne gets those things from birgette is they are both female, not likey it would effect Rand, and again we go back to the bond is not the same. Also, no one has ever proved to me Rand is insane, on the edge sure, but insane? Not yet he is not, he is to clear thinking to be insane.

 

*  Could their united sanity help to keep him from completely losing it?

 

being near Elayne would make anyone insane, not sure she could ever help keep anyone sane.

 

*  With the Rand/Moridin link, what is Moridin experiencing?

 

we have glimpses of anger is all i know of.

 

*  Is it a connection that might benefit the dark side, such as is it something that gives them a direct connection to Rand, perhaps making it easier to turn him?

 

You are focused on truning, it will not happen that is a fact.

 

*  Can one break a link like this? If so, how? Death only?

 

I have to assume only death, as we do not have enough data to have any other guesses.

 

*  Is the connection something that weakens Moridin and therefore the dark side?

doubtful, but still not enough data

 

*  Are the Finn really seeing things through Mat’s eyes?

 

I bealive they sift through the emotions.

 

*  If yes, will that be a disadvantage in that little trip to rescue Moiraine?

 

Mat seems to think they know he is coming.

 

*  Or is there a chance Mr. Lucky could turn it to his advantage?

 

Of course the dice will land where Mat needs them, after all, Min knows she is needed, and never has any of her predritions been false.

[Alternate34]

Just some meandering thoughts on the bond with Moridin.  Since the bond with Moridin is from crossing the streams of balefire, might the bond be Pattern related now?  Most of the time when weaves interfere, nothing crazy happens to the channelers.  However, balefire is a unique weave in that it dissolves threads in the pattern.  Might the crossing balefire streams have started a merging of Moridin's and Rand's thread in the Pattern? 

 

While people have been putting up the idea of a body swap, Min's vision is more of two bodies becoming one.  I think that because their threads are becoming entangled, they may combine in someway. According to Ishamael, they are the two champions that oppose one another, so this combination would be the oddest thing to happen.

[Ahaz Flagg]

Just some meandering thoughts on the bond with Moridin.  Since the bond with Moridin is from crossing the streams of balefire, might the bond be Pattern related now?  Most of the time when weaves interfere, nothing crazy happens to the channelers.  However, balefire is a unique weave in that it dissolves threads in the pattern.  Might the crossing balefire streams have started a merging of Moridin's and Rand's thread in the Pattern? 

 

While people have been putting up the idea of a body swap, Min's vision is more of two bodies becoming one.  I think that because their threads are becoming entangled, they may combine in someway. According to Ishamael, they are the two champions that oppose one another, so this combination would be the oddest thing to happen.

 

As good as an idea that I have heard.  It would certinaly leave him a better body than he has now!! :)

[OptimusPrime]

Just some meandering thoughts on the bond with Moridin.  Since the bond with Moridin is from crossing the streams of balefire, might the bond be Pattern related now?  Most of the time when weaves interfere, nothing crazy happens to the channelers.  However, balefire is a unique weave in that it dissolves threads in the pattern.  Might the crossing balefire streams have started a merging of Moridin's and Rand's thread in the Pattern? 

 

While people have been putting up the idea of a body swap, Min's vision is more of two bodies becoming one.  I think that because their threads are becoming entangled, they may combine in someway. According to Ishamael, they are the two champions that oppose one another, so this combination would be the oddest thing to happen.

 

This is how I always saw it. Threads in the Pattern becoming connected because both were trying to undo something the others undoing action, with no factor in place to decide which won. A knot, so to speak.

 

I must admit I would LOVE to Elaida bonded. But who is bad enough to want to force her on? Hmmmm . . . perhaps Taim would deserve it.

 

Taim is too badass to end up with someone like Elaida. I always thought Alviarin would be a good one to team him up with.

[moroten]

When it comes to warders being extremely dedicated to their Aes Sedai I just think it is the relationship that grows up between them. That and it is job that he should take seriously. Im mostly basing this on the Aes Sedai and warder story that Birgitte told Elayne when Elayne told Birgitte she had been bonded a warder. Those two seemed to fight for who was in charge all the time.

[Seven of Nine]

*  If there’s an emotional connection with the traditional Warder bond, and if the (marriage?) bond Rand has with his ladies is so much more, why don’t the ladies appear to be getting more information about Rand’s emotional state?

 

A few things come to mind here, it is bonding, but not the same bond, that is the big issue here.  Also, masking can be in play, I also am pretty sure distance is a biggy. Min certianly knows what he feels at most times.

I thought about the masking, too, but there was a comment about Min not having been successful with it yet.

 

*  What would happen to the women if Rand is forcibly turned (13+13)?

 

Not yet he is not, he is to clear thinking to be insane.

I would tend to agree, but there are certainly hints that he hasn’t reached his low yet and we may see it in the next book.

 

Impossible, we know for a fact the dark one wins, end of story.

I don't want to see Rand turned, but I don't know we can guarantee RJ didn't have that in mind for him. My question is if one is turned, can one be turned back? We know it takes 13 channelers and 13 Myrdrhaal to turn someone, but what would be the equivalent to turn someone back (assuming it's possible)? And would this bond with his ladies be some protection or does it make it more dangerous for them?

 

Just some meandering thoughts on the bond with Moridin.  Since the bond with Moridin is from crossing the streams of balefire, might the bond be Pattern related now?  Most of the time when weaves interfere, nothing crazy happens to the channelers.  However, balefire is a unique weave in that it dissolves threads in the pattern.  Might the crossing balefire streams have started a merging of Moridin's and Rand's thread in the Pattern?  

 

While people have been putting up the idea of a body swap, Min's vision is more of two bodies becoming one.  I think that because their threads are becoming entangled, they may combine in someway. According to Ishamael, they are the two champions that oppose one another, so this combination would be the oddest thing to happen.

Interesting thought about the merging of the Moridin's and Rand's threads in the pattern. That would make a lot of sense with Min's viewing. I wonder (if this happens) if it was just a pattern thing now or if the strength of character could play a role in who ended up in control.

 

As good as an idea that I have heard.   It would certinaly leave him a better body than he has now!! :)

Plus, doesn't Moridin kind of look like Rand--in a general sense?

 

I must admit I would LOVE to Elaida bonded. But who is bad enough to want to force her on? Hmmmm . . . perhaps Taim would deserve it.

 

Taim is too badass to end up with someone like Elaida. I always thought Alviarin would be a good one to team him up with.

They're both such whiners, maybe he should bond both!

 

Where's that evil looking emoticon?