What if Moiraine... Crazy theory

[Ashaman Kovan]

There seems a slight chance that Moiraine would be forced to the Shadow.

The process I think would require some time; and the Myrddraal would probably be killed before the process could become done.

 

Gawyn turning to the shadow, there seems a slight chance of that also.  His POVs seem to indicate a Light sided person.

Gawyn cannot die until Egwene bonds him. (a Dream)

 

Moiraine's death (and resurrection) seems more probable than she being forced to the Shadow.

mb, you forget that being forcibly turned to the Shadow can only happen to a channeler.

I did not forget that; nor have I contradicted it.  I modified the message.

'turning' is the term I use when it is the character's action (character's own choice or Compulsion used on the character).

 

 

You said "Turn" in regards to Gawyn. You said "Forced" in regards to Moiraine. Very different things. 

Not to mention that compulsion isn't used to "Turn" people to the Shadow and make them worship the Dark One.

[magnutz]

I just had a thought. You all know that Moiraine, prior to getting herself trapped/killed/? fighting Lanfear, tried to teach Rand all she knew of importance? Good. She was frantic about it! "There are so may things you must know... and so little time!" Anyhow, here's my crazy idea:

 

Moiraine had gotten some really disturbing answers from the visit in the "Doorframe world" and one was (might have been in crazy theory world) that she was going to be turned to the Dark One's side inside that doorframe world. This is why she had to teach Rand all she knew - for him to survive her attacks later when she had been rescued. Oh, but how can Mat and the others save her if she have been turned? Easy. She fakes being with them and walking in the Light. Then she goes after them.. one by one. :)

 

That was it!

 

Kinda flies in the face of Min's viewing that Rand's success relies upon Moiraine being there?

 

To defend my crazy theory a bit. Moiraine can still be there eventhough she won't be on Rand's side. Perhaps she'll be on the Eel/Aelfinn's side or something. Rand will succeed with here there, but not as believed. ;) Perhaps. :D

[Ashaman Kovan]

I just had a thought. You all know that Moiraine, prior to getting herself trapped/killed/? fighting Lanfear, tried to teach Rand all she knew of importance? Good. She was frantic about it! "There are so may things you must know... and so little time!" Anyhow, here's my crazy idea:

 

Moiraine had gotten some really disturbing answers from the visit in the "Doorframe world" and one was (might have been in crazy theory world) that she was going to be turned to the Dark One's side inside that doorframe world. This is why she had to teach Rand all she knew - for him to survive her attacks later when she had been rescued. Oh, but how can Mat and the others save her if she have been turned? Easy. She fakes being with them and walking in the Light. Then she goes after them.. one by one. :)

 

That was it!

 

Kinda flies in the face of Min's viewing that Rand's success relies upon Moiraine being there?

 

To defend my crazy theory a bit. Moiraine can still be there eventhough she won't be on Rand's side. Perhaps she'll be on the Eel/Aelfinn's side or something. Rand will succeed with here there, but not as believed. ;) Perhaps. :D

 

That was you defending the theory?  ;D

[Matrim DeLaneous]

I just had a thought. You all know that Moiraine, prior to getting herself trapped/killed/? fighting Lanfear, tried to teach Rand all she knew of importance? Good. She was frantic about it! "There are so may things you must know... and so little time!" Anyhow, here's my crazy idea:

 

Moiraine had gotten some really disturbing answers from the visit in the "Doorframe world" and one was (might have been in crazy theory world) that she was going to be turned to the Dark One's side inside that doorframe world. This is why she had to teach Rand all she knew - for him to survive her attacks later when she had been rescued. Oh, but how can Mat and the others save her if she have been turned? Easy. She fakes being with them and walking in the Light. Then she goes after them.. one by one. :)

 

That was it!

 

Kinda flies in the face of Min's viewing that Rand's success relies upon Moiraine being there?

 

To defend my crazy theory a bit. Moiraine can still be there eventhough she won't be on Rand's side. Perhaps she'll be on the Eel/Aelfinn's side or something. Rand will succeed with here there, but not as believed. ;) Perhaps. :D

 

Hmm...  ???

[OptimusPrime]

I just had a thought. You all know that Moiraine, prior to getting herself trapped/killed/? fighting Lanfear, tried to teach Rand all she knew of importance? Good. She was frantic about it! "There are so may things you must know... and so little time!" Anyhow, here's my crazy idea:

 

Moiraine had gotten some really disturbing answers from the visit in the "Doorframe world" and one was (might have been in crazy theory world) that she was going to be turned to the Dark One's side inside that doorframe world. This is why she had to teach Rand all she knew - for him to survive her attacks later when she had been rescued. Oh, but how can Mat and the others save her if she have been turned? Easy. She fakes being with them and walking in the Light. Then she goes after them.. one by one. :)

 

That was it!

 

Kinda flies in the face of Min's viewing that Rand's success relies upon Moiraine being there?

 

To defend my crazy theory a bit. Moiraine can still be there eventhough she won't be on Rand's side. Perhaps she'll be on the Eel/Aelfinn's side or something. Rand will succeed with here there, but not as believed. ;) Perhaps. :D

 

Hmm...  ???

 

I can understand the idea, in other words Moiraines (or anyones, when involving Ta'veren, but Ta'veren isnt whats being discussed) motives can be disregarded on certain things. For example, if Moiraine were to come back evil intending to hurt Rand she still might end up doing something that benefits the Light, whether a result from some Ta'veren twist or genuine coincedence. Sort of like what most people think will happen with Fain, it is believed that his role will somehow benefit the Light but his motives are about as far from Light-based as you can get.

 

Im not on the bandwagon though, Moiraine will return as normal Moiraine. She may have new motives to keep hidden but Moiraine might as well produce hidden motives when she passes wind, so nothing new there.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

I can understand the idea, in other words Moiraines (or anyones, when involving Ta'veren, but Ta'veren isnt whats being discussed) motives can be disregarded on certain things. For example, if Moiraine were to come back evil intending to hurt Rand she still might end up doing something that benefits the Light, whether a result from some Ta'veren twist or genuine coincedence.

 

I too have read and understand the original point.  I also understand the belief that anything is possuible.  However, at this point in the story, it seems that the theory is indisputedly contradicted by the text itself. 

[OptimusPrime]

I can understand the idea, in other words Moiraines (or anyones, when involving Ta'veren, but Ta'veren isnt whats being discussed) motives can be disregarded on certain things. For example, if Moiraine were to come back evil intending to hurt Rand she still might end up doing something that benefits the Light, whether a result from some Ta'veren twist or genuine coincedence.

 

I too have read and understand the original point.  I also understand the belief that anything is possuible.  However, at this point in the story, it seems that the theory is indisputedly contradicted by the text itself. 

 

As I said, Im not on the bandwagon either, not for Moiraine being evil. Was just showing that I dont think the idea is ridiculous.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Lets all hope that Moirane has her return in TGS, instead of in book 13 >.>... Alot of people have been saying she won't, and if that happens I will be sad for another year.

[OptimusPrime]

Lets all hope that Moirane has her return in TGS, instead of in book 13 >.>... Alot of people have been saying she won't, and if that happens I will be sad for another year.

 

I dunno man, I think Id be happy with the cliffhanger. From the review I got that we see Mat get to the Tower but not actually do his stuff. I wouldnt mind if Mat rescued her early book 13.

 

All Im really bothered about for book 12 is that its a Rand book. Everyone else can hang for now, Im happy with that. Its been too long

[DukeBob]

I think that it is more likely that Moraine knew she would be burned out going through the portal and would lose her position in society. Turning to the dark side is even a bigger stretch then the Avienda/Asmodean theory.

[OptimusPrime]

I think that it is more likely that Moraine knew she would be burned out going through the portal and would lose her position in society. Turning to the dark side is even a bigger stretch then the Avienda/Asmodean theory.

 

Being forced isnt though. I only doubt it myself because I think her return will be the first time we see Rand actually feels something, maybe even cry, after Cadsuane fixes him.

[Rhalurn]

Sorry, this is most definitely an interesting theory, but probably one of the least likely. No real reason behind it rather than it being kinda cool. Moraine is still alive and still not a darkfriend, i am interested in who will be revealed as a darkfriend though, there has to be a twist like that. You know what we havent seen (bar briefly when the darkfriend meeting with boarz) a darkfriend tinker! Aram is certainly losing his touch on reality, unlikely but i'd like to see Perrin have to face up to his mistake.

[OptimusPrime]

Have you read KoD, Rhalurn?

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Uh yeah Rhalurn uhh....Spoiler Alert: that kind of happened already in KoD lol

[DukeBob]

I think that it is more likely that Moraine knew she would be burned out going through the portal and would lose her position in society. Turning to the dark side is even a bigger stretch then the Avienda/Asmodean theory.

 

Being forced isnt though. I only doubt it myself because I think her return will be the first time we see Rand actually feels something, maybe even cry, after Cadsuane fixes him.

Being forced in and of itself wouldn't be too surprising; considering where she is, however makes it a big stretch. I do agree with Rhalurn that we will probably see at least someone get turned. Perhaps that is the role of the borderland group. It would certainly be ironic to have 13 BA and 13 Myrrdral with the people most dedicated to fighting the DO.

[OptimusPrime]

I think that it is more likely that Moraine knew she would be burned out going through the portal and would lose her position in society. Turning to the dark side is even a bigger stretch then the Avienda/Asmodean theory.

 

Being forced isnt though. I only doubt it myself because I think her return will be the first time we see Rand actually feels something, maybe even cry, after Cadsuane fixes him.

Being forced in and of itself wouldn't be too surprising; considering where she is, however makes it a big stretch. I do agree with Rhalurn that we will probably see at least someone get turned. Perhaps that is the role of the borderland group. It would certainly be ironic to have 13 BA and 13 Myrrdral with the people most dedicated to fighting the DO.

 

I would love it though, if it turned out that Third Agers were wrong about the 13/13 ritual being absolutely necessary; that it was only a failproof option like the thirteen sisters shield. The only way I would enjoy Moiraine being turned at any point in the series though would be if it turned out that Lanfear being as strong as is possible enabled her to turn Moiraine to the Shadow by herself. That way she would still have served some chaos if Moriaine escaped and it would be a dig at Rand as Lanfear knew she was important to him I think.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

I'm currently re-reading The Great Hunt, and I'm not sure if this is the place to put this but I have a theory that might have been stated before. In the Great Hunt, chapter 22 Watchers, Moiraine explains to Lan that she has made "arrangements" for his bond to be passed. "When you feel my death, you will find yourself compelled to seek out her immediately." Moiraine is noted for her cleverness and ability to find the tiniest loopholes in the Three Oaths (also shes like the perfect Aes Sedai). Since we do know that Moiraine is an innovator, and has her own little tricks, is it not possible that she could have figured out a way to break the Warder bond in a way that it would feel as if she was dead/stilled to Lan? She hasn't been through the Rings at Rhuidean yet, so I can't use that for evidence for or against, but Moiraine is a intelligent woman, and since she has so much insight a lot of the time, she might have foreseen a incident where she would have to fake her own death and have Lan move on so he could eventually end up with Nynaeve (remember she passed it to Myrelle because Myrelle is a Warder-saver, and later says something about she would have passed it to Nynaeve but she was Accepted at the time, not Aes Sedai).

 

Also, what evidence do we have that Moiraine COULD have been stilled on the other side other than the Warder bond breaking? We have evidence that holding the Power while going through the doorway does not sever you, as Rand was holding the Power when he exited the doorway in the Stone. The Eelfinn (they are the Moiraine-doorway ones right?) grant wishes, but we can assume they cannot channel the Power. So unless they did not immediately kill Lanfear, there is nothing in the doorway that could have stilled Moiraine. Also, on a side note, what if Moiraine killed Lanfear when she was going through the doorway? She did hit her by suprise after all. Now heres a crazy theory, maybe even crazier than the theory that gave this thread birth. What if, and I know this is far-fetched as heck, she has held the Finn's at bay with fire she made from the Power O.o. For like 6 months or however long its been.

[Terrick]

I don't see how keeping the Finns at bay would serve to sever her, or even serve any particular plot line? More likely would be that the fight between Moiraine and Lanfear resulted in Lanfear's death, and Moiraine's sevrance from the Source, but the Finns healed her, or at least nursed her, and possibly had some way of reversing the sevrance?

 

Dunno.  Just my own rather far fetched theory.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Thats my point Terrick, if she did keep the Finns at bay, she wouldn't have been severed at all. It would serve the plotline of me being very sad at Moirane not being able to channel  :'(.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Thats my point Terrick, if she did keep the Finns at bay, she wouldn't have been severed at all. It would serve the plotline of me being very sad at Moirane not being able to channel  :'(.

 

Although being severed isn't quite as serious a condition as it once was. Since Flinn or any other male Channeler who knew the weaves could Heal her back to her original strength. Or at least close enough to it.

 

I sort of have a feeling that once Mat and Co. get to Moiraine Rand may do the little psycic link dealio and see Moiraine himself. Either through Mat's eyes or becuase of her proximity to him. However that works, and then come to the rescue. Or something to that effect. He brings Finn alon and bam. Healed Moiraine. No more tears. :)