(Moved from Tinker DG) Religion, what do you think? (no fighting, calling names or bad talk please)

[Ferathil]

So, as a person that does not have a religion I am curious about how other religions view each other, I mean ya have the Pope, he's like famous or something, but what about all the other religions?

 

[Desiree]

I mean ya have the Pope, he's like famous or something

 

that made me lol XD

 

The Pope is basically the person over the Catholic faith/church and is one of the most prominent figures in the world aside from the Queen of England, the President, and any other equivalent.

 

and you know my views :) Wicca basically observes all religions as all gods and goddesses are worshipped in Wicca unless you choose to follow a specific diety (Thoth, Mars, Diana, ect) or type of deity (egyptian, celtic, ect).

[mmeeshal]

Well, I think each religion has their own way of viewing each other.

 

For example, most Christian churches view my church as not being Christian, because we don't believe in the Trinity.

 

But, in my church, we basically don't look down on other religions.  I mean, it all depends on the individual person, but haughtiness is generally discouraged.  :D

 

I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

 

I know I have a LOT of views that many DM folk don't agree with, or look down on, but I don't let it get to me.  I don't try to force my opinions and beliefs on others, and I respect the fact that each person is entitled to whatever beliefs they want to embrace.  :)

[Desiree]

as a Baptist, i was told that I'd go to Hell if I wasn't forigven for my sins, read the bible daily, and get baptised by a Priest. We didn't really look down on others except they really hated any mention of witches in the Bible and hated it when I brought my Harry Potter books to read waiting for the youth group to begin. other than mention of Wicca being wrong and satanic (which was the last time I went there), i never heard mention of other religions and I was there for two years or so.

[Ferathil]

For example, most Christian churches view my church as not being Christian, because we don't believe in the Trinity.

...

I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

 

By trinity what do ya mean? Is that what its called with the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ and God all being sepparate or that they're all the same person?

 

I was raised LDS, and they always taught us that they were three sepparate entities, so I'm just confused and wanting clearification :P

 

Anyways, most religions have some view of others, but it does come down to the haughtiness of the individual that starts arguments, and is sad to bash someone else's belief.

 

It is a definate fact that religions are needed, if it weren't for them, why would there be any reason to live by laws and care about anything? If there's nothing after death what's the point? So I have the firm point of view that ALL religions are needed and great, even if I don't believe any any of them.

[Talya]

i have to say I'm a Christian, if you have to label me into a sect, i would say Church of England. however i was never forced to go to church my parents ddn't go), I learnt about the bible in school, but it wasn't a bit part of the lessons, and nothing was ever forced down my throat. by the time I went to Comprehensive school (at 11)  we were taught about all religions. My parents never christened me, because they didn't believe in forcing any religion on me. but it was more that they hadn't got my brother christened as he was concieved out of wedlock and when they married mother was about 3-4 months pregnant.

 

I don't think about following any particular sect of Christianity. Going to church doesn't make you any better a person, it is what is in your heart, and God knows what you are truely about. I see the Bible as guidelines rather than a strict code, the way some have interpreted it.

 

I regret not being Christened, but it means when I am ready to it will be into something that I choose is right for me.

 

 

[Loreina]

:) Many Christian faiths do not have christenings. They have only the baptismal rite. That is the most important one to them. I have been told they are different ceremonies for different purposes. Many Christian faiths have both, and many allow the baptism of infants. I personally do not believe in the baptism of infants, though it is routinely done in my church. I did not have my infant children baptized. Instead, I allowed them to decide if and when they wanted to join the Church when they were old enough to know what it means, about 12 yrs. old (the age of accountability in our faith). I have always regretted not being able to remember my baptism, for I was only three months old. I am glad that both of my children can look back and remember the day they dedicated their lives to Christ's way. But, I have never liked the fact that Methodists do not have christenings. I would prefer to christen infants and baptize adults.

 

The Trinity has been a sticky wicket for the Christian faiths since the beginning. Many of the early splits in the church concerned the different interpretations of the nature of Christ. The early church had to come to some decision about Christ's humanity and divinity. They chose the Trinity. The Methodist Church, which is an offshoot of the Anglican Church, believes in the Trinity - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are all one and the same. At least that's how it was explained to me. Christ was born into human form the better to know our suffering. Otherwise, his sacrifice would have had no meaning, assuming that the wholly divine feel no pain.

 

Yes, Pol, the Bible does say not to let witches live, but the word witch in that context does not mean what most people think. The witches referred to in the old testament were able to conjure up the spirits of the dead to serve the will of the living, something that is imo abhorrent in any religion.

 

As I understand Wicca, it is more concerned with life than death, and I have no problem with what I have been told are "white witches". But admittedly, what I know of Wicca I learned from a practitioner back in the 70's, so maybe it's not relevant anymore?

 

 

 

[mmeeshal]

By trinity what do ya mean? Is that what its called with the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ and God all being sepparate or that they're all the same person?

 

I was raised LDS, and they always taught us that they were three sepparate entities, so I'm just confused and wanting clearification

 

Well, yeah, Lorei pretty much answered the question about what the Trinity is.  :D

 

So, in the LDS church, we believe that there is our Heavenly Father, who is God.  We believe that he had a literal Son, who is Jesus Christ.  And then, the 3rd person in the Godhead is the Holy Ghost, who we believe dwells with/influences/comforts/guides/witnesses the people on the earth.

[Desiree]

Yes, Pol, the Bible does say not to let witches live, but the word witch in that context does not mean what most people think. The witches referred to in the old testament were able to conjure up the spirits of the dead to serve the will of the living, something that is imo abhorrent in any religion.

 

In the church i went to, there was a whole two weeks that was basically trashing the Wiccan faith and religious views saying that magic was the devil's work and that the horned god they worshipped was Satan, himself. but that's not true. The horned god is more of a symbol of sacrificial kings and the dying God necessary to represent the cycle of life and birth in the midieval witch-cults they had at the time. That, is black magic, voodoo, or necromancy and is highly frowned upon in wicca.

 

As I understand Wicca, it is more concerned with life than death, and I have no problem with what I have been told are "white witches". But admittedly, what I know of Wicca I learned from a practitioner back in the 70's, so maybe it's not relevant anymore?

 

Wicca is basically the "green" religion. It promotes the health of mind, body, spirit, and the earth through the guidance of unseen forces in and around everyone to reach a certain goal. but there is still a term called White Witches and Black Witches. White Witches follow the 13 Wiccan Redes - the first and foremost one being "Harm none." That includes yourself as well as others. Black Witches don't follow any set of rules and do whatever they please with their magic (magic for the use of personal gain is okay in White Wicca as long as it does not go against the 13 rules).

 

However, say someone does something to anger or really hurt a witch. If they were a white witch, they wouldn't do anything and just let the three-fold rule take hold of the other person as they see fit. Let's say that person was a black witch - the offending person would be hexed in a heartbeat to harm, unluckiness, or all kinds of things. Hexes are rarely seen in white magic as white magic leans more towards personal gain, healing, and the gain of others around you (ofc, another one of the 13 rules is to ALWAYS ask permission before casting a spell on another or for the gain of another) and the earth.

 

There was a time I thought about hexing someone, but as I started the hex (thinking that it was okay as it could be counted as part of the three-fold rule) all the negative energy that was building up around and in me nearly made me sick to my stomach as I was so used to wirking with positive energy. Needless to say, I was scared out of my wits and have never thought of hexing anyone again. I tend to work on protection wards as it's what I'm best at. Though I do have a mild talent in healing and removing spells/curses on another (fail at removing it on myself, lol)

[vainebekonnes]

Moving away from the discussion on the manipulation of spiritual energy and back to the original question, different religions have different beliefs toward other religions, and even within the same religion, beliefs can differ from sect to sect and based on the individual.

 

I would personally break religions up into three groups that share many characteristics as far as this is concerned.  You have evangelistic theologies, non-evangelistic theologies, and philosophies.  Philosophies would be belief systems without the rigors of a structured theology, such as Buddhism or the case could be made for Wicca as well.  Non-evangelistic theologies have a structured theology, but make no aims toward converting others to their faith or believing it's necessary.  Normally these faiths either have a live and let live attitude, or are considered more of a part of the culture rather than transcending it.  Judaism or Hinduism are examples I would use for this.  Evangelistic theologies not only have a structured theology, but their theology is correct and everyone should adhere to it, thus they attempt to convert others to their religion.  Christianity, Islam, and Zealous Atheism are all evangelistic theologies. 

 

Now before someone jumps onto me about the zealous atheism comment, let me explain my categorization.  There is no way to prove either the existence, or lack there of of a god or even a spiritual world.  As such, it requires a level of faith, no matter how small, to hold to any beliefs regarding the spiritual world and the existence of a god.  Just as I wouldn't state that the many people that believe in a god but don't have any real strong feelings on the subject as worthy of a religion, neither is the belief that there isn't a god but no strong feelings on the matter.  However, there are those that are so thoroughly convinced that there is no god, and that anyone who believes in a god is completely wrong and must be changed that they attempt to argue and change the mind of those who believe in "fairy tales," that the level of their faith in the lack of a divine being certainly would constitute a religion, and the level of their zealousness and attempts to convert "believers" into their "non-belief" belief system certainly constitutes evangelism.

 

With that explained, let me delve into the feelings religions have towards each other.  Philosophies tend to play well with others.  Many of them can even be combined with a different religion that has a theology with little to no difficulty.  Even in philosophical religions, you can still have zealots that discount other religions.  They tend to be a small minority however, with little to no impact usually.  Non-evangelical theological religions get along okay with other religions, but still normally carry with them the inherent doctrine that they are right, and thus by definition other religions are wrong.  They might fully support your right to believe whatever you want to, but that doesn't make you right.  However, the less conservative (theologically) the believer is, the less likely they are to a belief in the truth of their own religion and the inherent falsehood of the religion of others.  Evangelical theological religions are like their non-evangelical brethren, on steroids.  Not only are they correct and others wrong, but others need to be correct like themselves and come around to their understanding of things.  In extreme cases this can be mean-spirited or violent.  In other cases it can be loving and come out of a genuine concern for your welfare.  Like the non-evangelical theologies, the evangelical religions have many believers that are not nearly as extreme as the doctrine itself, and can range anywhere from not caring to convert others as long as they are happy, to not even being certain that they are correct and that others are wrong.

 

Inside a single religion, sects might not even recognize or get along with each other.  The Catholic Church is the ONLY real church by official church doctrine, and they don't recognize protestant churches as real churches.  However, in the evangelical and fundamentalist extremes of protestantism, the feeling is often mutual, going as far as to suggest in some literature that the Catholic church is a cult or even "Babylon the Great" of Revelations, and that the Anti-Christ will be a Pope.  Most of the Christian sects agree that the Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons aren't really Christians, simply because their beliefs diverge from beliefs agreed upon at a time before the rest split.  I can't really say much about Eastern Orthodox because they are both not as popular in America as the others, and they seem to avoid the public pissing contests they other sects hold.

 

Now, lest someone think that I have a bias that has come out during this post, I am a Christian.  I too hold to the belief that others should believe what I believe for their own good and well-being of their immortal soul.  I am not stating which denomination I belong to, because it doesn't matter.  I was trying to look at this from a standpoint on how they feel about each other and relate, which has nothing to do with who I view as right or wrong.

[Loreina]

:) Well spoken vaine.

 

[vainebekonnes]

Yes, Pol, the Bible does say not to let witches live, but the word witch in that context does not mean what most people think. The witches referred to in the old testament were able to conjure up the spirits of the dead to serve the will of the living, something that is imo abhorrent in any religion.

I would also like to add a "Yes, but..." to this.  It wasn't just necromancy or mediums that constituted verboten activity, but really dealings with any spiritual entities that were not on the YWH approved list.  There are stories told of prophets consulting with angels, and that being okay, but also stories told of "angels" turning out to be something else masquerading as angels.  So any of the Wiccan ceremonies involving The Goddess and/or The Horned God would most certainly have fallen under the category of stone them.

[Ferathil]

o.O

 

Aye Chiwawa, I've created a monster

 

...

>,>

<,<

>,>

 

Yay for me.. :P

[Desiree]

I agree with Lor! well said! *aplauds*

 

and it's chihuahua, fera ;)

 

but I just think it funny how other religions think Wiccans raise the dead in their Circles when we believe in reincarnation and that souls pass on to the Summerland - the Wiccan's version of heaven. I mean, yes we do believe there are things that can bind a soul to the earth, but we also believe there are ways of sending them to where they need to be, be it heaven, hell, the summerland, or just gone. But even as a Christian I believed in this, thinking if God really was so forgiving and caring that if you wanted a chance to do better by him then you could. However, this upset my youth minister and my parents and I had to have a session with the church's therapist over this. Also about the Wheel of Time books as both him, my youth minister, and my parents thought them satan's works because I was so open-minded to all kinds of things and the possibility of magic (that's where my New Spring hardback book and EotW went to :(). However, the one thing I could freely read on my own and not be commented about was Harry Potter as my step mom loved them and bought all the books for me and her.

[vainebekonnes]

Also about the Wheel of Time books as both him, my youth minister, and my parents thought them satan's works because I was so open-minded to all kinds of things and the possibility of magic (that's where my New Spring hardback book and EotW went to :(). However, the one thing I could freely read on my own and not be commented about was Harry Potter as my step mom loved them and bought all the books for me and her.

So Wheel of Time, with it's Creator/God and Dark One/Satan analogy, was considered a work of Satan, but Harry Potter with it's talk of witches was considered fine?  Don't get me wrong, Harry Potter is harmless, and I've beaten my head against the wall trying to explain that to the same kind of people that read Jack Chick comics and believe them.  However, I find the concept that Wheel of Time is more dangerous than Harry Potter absolutely astounding.  Then again, they do call it being irrational for a reason.

[Rinkai]

Its also funny because, Wheel of timr is filled to the brim with christ/ christian symbolism and architype.

 

I kind of got feed up with organized religion. Right now i'm just operating under the principle that I know what is right and I know what is wrong, and personally, that is enough for me to function (right now at least.) I think its the little details that create all of this tension and anger, usually on both sides, and usually both sides are guilty of this. I think if everyone concentrated on the big picture, most people could live in harmony, because most people know what is right and wrong.

[mmeeshal]

I think if everyone concentrated on the big picture, most people could live in harmony, because most people know what is right and wrong.

 

I agree.  I mean, I'm all for organized religion, personally, but the problem is that, yes, people tend to nitpick and focus on the unimportant details, losing sight of the whole reason religion exists anyway.

It can be hard when someone's definition of right and wrong is different from your own, but there is never a reason to attack that person and his/her beliefs.

 

I don't know if anything I say makes much sense, I've kind of been struggling with coherency the past couple of days.  :-\  My brain just doesn't seem to work...

 

As far as organized religion goes.....  I do not advise anyone to force themselves into an organized religion just because he/she thinks it's necessary.  My belief is that if you're not comfortable with any sect or denomination, don't go there.

Now, I also believe that every single person can actually find a place in an organized religion, particularly my own, but that is MY belief, and I NEVER try to force it on anyone.  I don't look down on people who believe things contrary to my own opinions and beliefs, but I'm not always comfortable with it either.

 

Not all organized religions are as uptight as others.  Sure, they all have their do's and don'ts, but I have noticed that some are more controlling, while others are less so.

 

My church has never come out and said that Harry Potter is bad, or any book really.  We focus on the fact that we have the right to choose, and leave it up to the individual.  Some people in the church don't feel comfortable reading HP.  Many others enjoy the books.  Some just aren't interested.  I've never been told in my church that I should or shouldn't read, write, watch, think anything (except praying and reading the scriptures! :D ).

 

Anyway.

 

I feel strongly in favor of organized religion, but I'll try not to let myself get carried away....

 

*rolls eyes at self*

[Desiree]

Also about the Wheel of Time books as both him, my youth minister, and my parents thought them satan's works because I was so open-minded to all kinds of things and the possibility of magic (that's where my New Spring hardback book and EotW went to :(). However, the one thing I could freely read on my own and not be commented about was Harry Potter as my step mom loved them and bought all the books for me and her.

So Wheel of Time, with it's Creator/God and Dark One/Satan analogy, was considered a work of Satan, but Harry Potter with it's talk of witches was considered fine?  Don't get me wrong, Harry Potter is harmless, and I've beaten my head against the wall trying to explain that to the same kind of people that read Jack Chick comics and believe them.  However, I find the concept that Wheel of Time is more dangerous than Harry Potter absolutely astounding.  Then again, they do call it being irrational for a reason.

 

Exactly. This was my parent's concern. Or more precisely, my dad and my step mom's concerns. They aren't very devoted themselves, yet all this talk of Aes Sedai and being one on Dragonmount and on countless roleplay sites apparently scared them for some reason. They constantly monitored my posts and what i said and my roleplays and what I wrote about. They also liked to peek over my shoulder over playing TGH MUD since that was the one thing they couldn't pick up with Spyware. I had no privacy over my addiction to the Wheel of Time. I don't see why they couldn't appreciate that they had a child with an active imagination and a talent for writing and a love of reading. Most parents would love to have a kid like that.

 

The only reason why my dad could do anything about Harry Potter was that my step mom loved the books, too. I did get a few comments about them reading the books waiting for church to start, however. I also lost a very good friend because i told her I absolutely loved the Harry Potter books. She was a Catholic and her church constantly preached that Rowling's work was an underlying message from Satan.

[Loreina]

After reading that post, Pol, I'm thinking maybe they were afraid you were being drawn into a 'cult' situation?   :-\

 

Cults are a difficult subject to talk to your kids about. The definition is a little like the proverbial slippery slope. I imagine many people considered Christianity as just another cult in the beginning. Basically, I just told my children that it was a cult if it tried to make them do something they thought was wrong, or if it tried to separate them from their friends and family. No reputable group will ask its members to do something wrong or try to separate kids from their families. Parents always worry about who their kids hang with.  :)

[Desiree]

I honestly don't know and I probably never will as we aren't really on speaking terms anymore :-\

[vainebekonnes]

I honestly don't know and I probably never will as we aren't really on speaking terms anymore :-\

I know that you have no reason to take advice from someone on the internet, but unless there is something more serious than them being too strict and irrational, you might want to try to see if you can salvage your relationship with your parents.  Then again, if there is something more serious that you obviously wouldn't want us to know about, then it makes perfect sense to maintain distance.  It's just that as upset as you might be with your parents mistakes, remember that they too are human and flawed.  Of course, I'm speaking as someone that knows pretty much nothing of your situation, so feel free to ignore me which you most likely would do with or without my blessing on the matter.  :-\

[Loreina]

*hugs vaine* Good advice. Parents can be such *#&#^ sometimes. *sighs* My Dad was one of the "My way or the Highway" kind when I was younger. He softened up in his later years. Or maybe I got wiser. *ponders*

[Desiree]

let's just say my dad's fond of guilt trips and much much more in the verbal abuse area and there's a bunhc more that happened that resulted in me being grounded from the internet for half a year or more back in 05-06 :-\

 

but I will take this advice to heart to work out a situation with my aunt I just moved away from. thank you :) *hugs*

[Loreina]

:) *hugs* 

[Desiree]

I needed that today, thanks Lor :)