Aviendha's children

[Mr Ares]

Another possibility of the oddness of the birth of Aviendha's babies::

-the simple fact that they shall be healthy

No. "The babies would be healthy, but still something odd."

[ROB_88]

how would healthy be odd?

[Shard]

AFFC is quite clearly half a book.

Which half?

The half without Tyrion, Danny, Jon, Bran, Theon and the rest of the other half of the cast. The half which takes place in the north (and the east).

 

ADWD is the other half.

It is the entire book for half the cast. Still all the book. And you didn't answer my question about PoD or CoT - what fraction of book are they? Or FoH for that matter? AFFC and ADWD are both complete books.

 

I think the reason why he's calling it a half a book is that when we do finally read aDwD, we will not be finding out Cersei's fate is. That will have to wait for the sixth book, so in a sense it's half the story of what's been going on in this time frame. I can't think of any examples but there have been shows that did an episode from one character pov and then finished the next by showing another character pov to finish the story of the events that took place during that time frame. We do know the Song of Fire is done, were just waiting for the Song of Ice to finish.

[Mercer]

I always liked the theory that Elayne would die during AMoL (both because it could very well happen and I hate Elayne), and Aviendha would naturally raise Elayne's daughters...hence the oddity. The large hole in that being even if Aviendha then had two children with Rand, only two children would be "odd".

[Mr Ares]

how would healthy be odd?

Four at once does increase the risk of complications.

 

I always liked the theory that Elayne would die during AMoL (both because it could very well happen and I hate Elayne), and Aviendha would naturally raise Elayne's daughters...hence the oddity. The large hole in that being even if Aviendha then had two children with Rand, only two children would be "odd".

She would also have to have her two in a spectacularly short time, with even Elayne's children being very premature. The timing of events doesn't seem to indicate we have the best part of nine months until TG.

 

I think the reason why he's calling it a half a book is that when we do finally read aDwD, we will not be finding out Cersei's fate is.

Actually, we will have some chapters from AFFC characters that follow on from that book, near the end of Dance. Both Sansa and Arya have been confirmed. We may have Cersei. Regardless, we had no Theon between book 2 and book 5, yet that doesn't diminish the fraction of book that AFFC or ASOS is, does it? About 1/11 of ASOS, I believe. Is anyone complaining it is only 10/11 of a book? Considering the Iron Islands and Dorne stuff from AFFC should, chronologically, be in ASOS, that further lowers the fraction. And AFFC was book 4 in its entirety, ADWD will almost certainly be book 5 in its entirety. Just because some characters are absent, doen't diminish the fraction of book this is. Each is a book complete in its own right.

[Mercer]

^ I agree that it doesn't seem there enough time for Elayne to have her children and die in AMoL, but I don't see why Aviendha would need to have her kids any time soon...there was no time limit on Min's viewing, simply that Elaybe would "Have Rand's babies, four of them". Supposing Elayne has hers, dies in AMoL...Aviendha has all the time in the world to complete the viewing.

 

Though this is very likely wishful thinking on my part. Min is alright, Aviendha is usually a good read, but Elayne is equal parts annoying and uninteresting.

 

For that matter, the 4-odd-babies viewing works with the body-swap theory as well.  :-X

[Mr Ares]

there was no time limit on Min's viewing

It was specified that she would have four at once. Elayne is already pregnant, Avi isn't. Therefore, to have four at once, she must get her skates on.

[Shard]

I didn't mean Character absence Mr. Ares I meant plot absence, the conclusion of Cersei being put on trail is the plot point I am questioning here. It actually doesn't require her on screen presence at all but if were going back to the begining of the time frame to go over that time with different characters then were not seeing what's happening with the previous characters until book 6. I am not arguing that were getting half a book and I certainly don't think PoD, CoT or WH were half books either. aDwD could be entirely from Jon Snow's pov and I would still considered it a full and worth while book to read.

 

And how did this come up in the topic about Avi's children?

[Mr Ares]

but if were going back to the begining of the time frame to go over that time with different characters then were not seeing what's happening with the previous characters until book 6.

But I have already pointed out to you that this is wrong. ADWD is mostly parallel, but carries on where AFFC ends, and picks up some of the AFFC characters to contiune their stories. Sansa and Arya are already confirmed. As is Asha Greyjoy. It is not inconceivable that Cersei will be there as well.

[Shard]

but if were going back to the begining of the time frame to go over that time with different characters then were not seeing what's happening with the previous characters until book 6.

But I have already pointed out to you that this is wrong. ADWD is mostly parallel, but carries on where AFFC ends, and picks up some of the AFFC characters to contiune their stories. Sansa and Arya are already confirmed. As is Asha Greyjoy. It is not inconceivable that Cersei will be there as well.

 

Well that wasn't what he said in his blog years ago about the story mostly being from Jon and Deanry's pov.

[Mr Ares]

Well that wasn't what he said in his blog years ago about the story mostly being from Jon and Deanry's pov.

Plans change. At one point, he planned a trilogy. I believe the initial plan for ADWD, before the split was decided on, was a comparison between the ruling of Cersei and Dany. That said, the list of confirmed POVs for ADWD currently stands at:

Dany

Jon

Tyrion

Davos

Sansa

Arya

Theon

Bran

Asha

Quentyn Martell

Varamyr Sixskins in the Prologue (RIP)

Someone else, most likely Melisandre or Ser Loras.

that said, I would expect more POVs for some characters than others, and Dany seems a dead cert for a lot of them (I think Cersei got 10 in AFFC), with Jon having a fair few.

[Shard]

Your right plans do change, I had just felt dissapointed at first to not know how Cersei's fate was going to turn out. So if we see that then I'm happy, now that were done hijacking this thread let's return it to the topic of Avi's children.  :D

 

I know one theory about Avi's kids is that she isn't pregnant but Min is, and that Avi will being "feeling" the birth of two sets of twins. It's a crazy theory but certainly odd.

[Yllek]

To refresh everyone's memories, Min sees/says...

 

"Aviendha would have Rand's babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd."

 

Maybe Aviendha has the WOT equivalent of a C-section.  Otherwise, how could she have four AT ONCE?  If she had them naturally, they would be one at a time, perhaps seprated by hours.  Perhaps this proceedure occurs prematurely as well, at about roughly the same time as Elayne's children are born...

 

leading to the theory that because the wheel uses people's lives as threads in the pattern, Rand having 6 children (thus 6 new threads springing from a tavreen), serves to weave shut the dark one's prison in some way. 

[Mercer]

^ Cheers for the exact passage, I wasn't certain. The "at once" part throws off my favourite theory, but still...perhaps "at once" is a little ambiguous; I can't see her having 4 literally at once.

 

Also, it brings on something new: it says nothing about the babies being odd, but "something" being about about "that"...it could very well mean that Aviendha dies. Probably too simple, and I hope not as that would kill off the wrong wife, but hey, could be.

[Treblkickd]

I'll preface this by saying that I've never been a fan of the body-swap theory for how a Rand/Moridin conflict will conclude.  And by not a fan I mean I would find it an annoying plot twist.  But my distaste for the bodyswap aside, I am firmly in the camp that thinks that the Aviendha baby viewing can be easily explained by a body-swap ending for Rand.  Meaning, Aviendha has four of Rand's babies, but they are by Rand in Moridin's body, from the time well after the Last Battle takes place.