Half a dozen of my sisters- warning: thread has utterly derailed.

[Kaznen]

If Mo killed the whole fist of Trollocs then 3 fists would have come for the boys, that didn't work, 10 fists, and keep going until the Two Rivers became the kickoff point for the next Trolloc Wars leading to the death of millions, with TG just over the horizon.

 

from another poster

Sounds logical, but do you have any references to that being what happened?

 

I looked for what wasn't mentioned.  I the BWB the ajahs (Lower case) were on their own during the breaking, Paren Disan was destroyed, the Hall of Servants was gone, and there was no central authority.  There was no time to stop for formal training, look at the Aiel, and if there was former training the BWB would have mentioned it in the section the WT was founded.

 

Re-reading the BWB has changed my some of my opinions about the errors of the WT, not all, but they did cling to a tradition that was founded by necessity, and when a time came to take a breath they kept to tradition.

 

And the research they did do was mentioned, but that was only to see how ter'angreal worked and what they did.  But the research was more or less, "Let's stick this fork in the toaster and see what happens."  They didn't go about it using the scientific method.

 

Moggy taught Elayne, Nyn, and Egwene that channeling was a science, and those three young, unmolded, channlers who were still willing to question tradition took that school of thought.

 

Rand was trained, from the beginning by a AoL former AS, so Asmodean didn't say, "To ward your dreams take spirit and weave it like so."  He said, "The purpose of wards.....And when you learn to apply this making nearly any kind of ward will not be a problem." 

[Luckers]

None of those Asha'men, with the possible exception of Sandomere, comes close to Moiraine's strength. Men are on average stronger--which means only that the male average is a slight step up from the female. Men still have the full range of strengths, and we know for a fact that whilst some of the Asha'men are starting to get close to the Aes Sedai in terms of strength, and that some will eventually get higher, none as yet are close to Moiraine.

 

Huh? Why do we know the comparative power of a woman who hasn't been seen since before the Farm was started, and the Asha'man of the Black Tower?

 

Because we know her strength relative to the likes of Merise, and her strength relative to the likes of Narishma, and his strength relative to Flinn's, and Flinn's to Sandomere's, and Sandomere's to all of Logain's boys.

 

Causally we therefore know that Moiraine is at the least stronger than all of Logain's followers with the possible exception of Sandomere.

 

More of those men may gain on Moiraine in time--for all that men gain their strength faster than women, and these men were forced besides, not even Flinn, the very first man to come to the farm, has gained his full strength.

 

And the research they did do was mentioned, but that was only to see how ter'angreal worked and what they did.  But the research was more or less, "Let's stick this fork in the toaster and see what happens."  They didn't go about it using the scientific method.

 

Moggy taught Elayne, Nyn, and Egwene that channeling was a science, and those three young, unmolded, channlers who were still willing to question tradition took that school of thought.

 

I still disagree with that, and again refer to my comments above as proof that the Aes Sedai do consider channeling from a rational, analytical perspective. Their ability to do so is limited by their knowledge of physics, or anything approaching the scientific method, and some of their knowledge they don't understand the basis of and therefore simply have to teach the whole load verbatim, trusting in its accuracy in the absense of the knowledge of its origins, but still, they do their best.

 

And I'd point out that they did not simply stick the fork in the toaster--they studied those ter'angreal without attempting to activate them for years--which we know because they'd had to have figured out the complex weaves required to activate them before attempting to test them. In the end observation could only take them so far, so they tested them under as close to safe conditions as was possible.

 

And I'd point out that that was not the only research they were conducting. At the same time they were conducting detailed examinations of the linking process, resulting in full documentation of all of its effects and limitations. That seems pretty scientific to me. They were also researching cleansing the taint for nearly two centuries. I can't think of a line of scientific inquiry thats been running for two centuries.

 

Also, Moghedian did not teach the Wonder Girls to think of channeling as a science, she taught them the weaves, and the effects and limitations, but there was no science to it--no explanations of why manipulating those specific forces resulted in that specific effect. There wasn't even any suggestion by her that they should think of it that way. She did with them exactly what the Aes Sedai do, impart the weave whole.

 

Elayne's been the most successful at examining an aspect of the power, understanding why it is so, and reproducing it, and she discovered that on the trip from Tarabon, but Egwene and Nynaeve's innovations came from their own heads too, with no prompting from Moghedian--but their achievements, dramatic though they may be, arn't without precedent. Moiraine examined the issue of residues and developed a method of removing them--showing examination, and specific innovation in response to a specific problem. Verin hobbled together a compulsion weave out of a hundred different lesser weaves showing examination and adaptation.

 

So yes, the Aes Sedai are limited in their efforts by the bredth of their education--which is not to say they arn't objectivly rational about the Power and the study of the Power.