Rand and Balefire

[Ashaman Kovan]

QUOTE

Look at what happened when the darkhound bit mat. Rand used balefire without even knowing exactly what it was. For all we know he could have made that lets see....Idk a quarter of how strong he could make it. And still mat suffered the effects of the bite. To a much lesser degree yeah but it still effected him.

 

Then when he Balefired Rhavin. I'm pretty sure he put no kind of restraint on it that time and yet everyone remembered lord Gaebril, None of the things Morgase did while she was being controlled be him were reversed. And yet Morgase had pretty much JUST ran away and escaped like what that day? Day before maybe? And no huge changes in any of the memories of any andorans or anything.

UNQUOTE

 

Balefire doesnt remove memory, it only removes the actions. Thats why everyone still remembers Gaebril. If balefire erased peoples memory then Rand wouldnt remember killing or even fighting Rahvin.

 

When Rand fought Rahvin, obviously we all know Rahvin killed Asmo Mat and Avi before the fight. Youre telling me that Rand and Rahvin ran around blowing the palace/whatever apart for less than 15 minutes? I know a timescale wasnt given but I got the impression that that fight went on for longer than 15 minutes.

 

Actually no. The fight seemed to me like it probably did last about 15 minutes. Alot of it took place in TAH and we all know how time fluxuates there. And what I meant about people remembering him as Gaebril is that if Rand used as much of the power as he could to balefire him, and if he could have really undone that much then Rhavin never would have even came to caemelyn as Gaebril and seduced Morgase and all that jazz.

 

Come to think of it. How much time passed between the time he showed up as Gaebril and then when rand killed him? Anyone know?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Approximately 150 days according to the timeline I've seen.

 

Rahvin arrives sometime during the winter.  He's established himself and pretty much taken over as 'Lord Gaebril" by mid spring.  Rand kills him on the first day of fall.

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

And what I meant about people remembering him as Gaebril is that if Rand used as much of the power as he could to balefire him, and if he could have really undone that much then Rhavin never would have even came to caemelyn as Gaebril and seduced Morgase and all that jazz.

UNQUOTE

 

He still would have come there, people would have still remembered him, its only the effect he has had that would have been burnt back. Balefire doesnt alter history it undoes it. If you stab someone and then get balefired you still stabbed them, just the wound disappears.

[Bob T Dwarf]

And when Rand returns to the waking world after killing Rahvin, the Trollocs and Myrddraal are still there and the fighting rages on.

 

So, the amount of time by which he back-shifted Rahvin's death couldn't have extended to days or more.  I'd think it impossible for Rahvin to have kept an army of Shadowspawn under wraps for more than a few hours, at most.  Thus, those Shadowspawn couldn't have been in Caemlyn for any great length of time.

 

Since they're still there after Rahvin's death, the back-shift was probably minutes, or only a half-hour, at most.

[Raistlin]

I think it has happend before. In the first three books there are many times when Rand fights Ba'alzamon he talks about how many times they have played out this same story. The patern spits out the same people over and over again when needed. We are only seeing what happend this time. Who knows what happend the thousands of times when the Dragon Reborn turned bad or died. I think balefire is how it will all end. Rand is trying to figure out how to return things to before the Darkone was released. I think he relised that if it was that way it will be that way again. The Wheel of Time turns and repeats what has already happend.

[Mr Ares]

Sorry, I didn't clearly state what I was agreeing with.  I was agreeing with Luckers opinion on what bale fire destroys, the same as what Silver was agreeing with.

I have to agree with Lurkers. Balefire does not destroy the soul, it destroys the body in the past, which releases the soul in the past. And since it's in the past, the DO can't just wait around to retrieve it.

Very wise of you to agree that balefire doesn't destroy the soul, given that this is a fact:

Balefire: I'm right. (This was my question) What this means is, if someone is balefired, the Dark One can't reincarnate them. But they CAN be spun back out into the wheel as normal. Balefire is NOT the eternal death of the soul.

I think we all agree with that.