Masuri and Annoura

[Luckers]

Masuri and Annoura both snuck into Masema's camp several times right up through to the end of KoD--Perrin believes they went to meet Masema himself, and with good reason, to Perrin's eyes he is the only figure in that camp worth an Aes Sedai's attention--the rest are all rag tag zealots. Yet this seems strange--Masema hates Aes Sedai, and even Perrin notes that that continues in spite of the ongoing meetings.

 

[Masema]"...a pity you will not let the Seanchan leash all of them."

His sidelong glance at Annoura and Masuri said he included them, despite the fact that both had visited him in secret more than once. They regarded him with Aes Sedai calm, though Masuri's slim hands moved as if to smooth her brown skirts. She said she had changed her mind and now believed the man must be killed, so why was she meeting him? Why was Annoura? Why did Masema allow them? He more than hated Aes Sedai.

 

[KoD--The Last Knot--609]

 

So, several curiosities here. Let me state them...

 

1. Both Masuri and Annoura claim Masema must be killed--Masuri having changed her mind--yet even after changing it, both she and Annoura continue to sneak into his camp.

 

2. Masema allows it, depsite his hatred of Aes Sedai.

 

Or rather, these are the way Perrin seems them--in truth neither Aes Sedai was seen with Masema. Selende says 'they have been meeting with Masema' but in truth all that happened was that one of her people say Masuri and her warder, and occaisionally Annoura with them, sneaking into and out of the camp. He comments are clear on this--they were cited only in transit. The assumption is Masema, which seems fair, yet given the above that seems very hard to swallow.

 

So, if we remove Selende's assumption, and then take the above two points into account, then it seems very unlikely that they are meeting Masema--which raises the question of who are they meeting? Who else would be a figure influencing events in Masema's horde?

 

My guess is a darkfriend. It's the only thing that explains the collusion between Annoura and Masuri, but not Seonid. The only thing that allows for those two to be acting together, yet exclude the other. On every other thing that might bring Aes Sedai together, yet exclude a third, they differ--Ajah, alleigences, history, temprement.

 

So who is this darkfriend? Along the way many have suggested one of the Chosen to be influencing Masema--specifically Demandred. I've always doubted this, and I hold to that doubt--manipulating a mad man and his zealous mob would take way too much constant attention and subtle manipulation. It would be a full time job even for one of the Forsaken, and for its effects its just not worth their effort--oh, it creates chaos, but not on a grand enough scale to keep one occupied full time. Besides, Demandred is a general, direct action is his game--manipulating the fear and hatred of a pseudo-religious following, thats much subtler--say something a spider would dream up.

 

Specifically, I'm suggesting Moghedian sent two members of the Black Ajah to deal with Masema. Berylla Naron and Rianna Andomeran. She took control of Liandrin's group in Amador at around the same time Masema was growing true steam. She assigned several tasks, which we know for the most part. Ispan and Falion were sent to Ebou Dar. Eldrith, Asne, Chesmal, Marillin and Temaille accompanied her north, and later continued north to Caemlyn. This leave Rianna, Berylla and Jeaine.

 

Now, firstly, Jeaine Caide. I exclude her from this scenario because her reaction to her instructions was extreme horror--which makes no sense for this scenario, and completely differs from Berylla and Rianna. Those two both react too their instructions impassively.

 

Furthermore, Berylla is cited by Liandrin as being a deft manipulator and plotter. Rianna, a White, was described as cold with an eye that saw deep into you, into your flaws. Those two would be perfect for this, and Moghedian would be exactly the sort of person who would see it. A deft manipulator and a person who could percieve a persons flaws could tweak a growing mob in exactly the right ways to ensure it grows--they also explain Masema's ongoing survival--a mob should not have held up so well, but with two Aes Sedai, deft at politics, hamstringing the opposition....

 

There is the issue of their Aes Sedai faces, yet Moghedian could have taught them illusion enough to hide that--as far as secrets go, that form of illusion isn't a huge revellation, much smaller than Mesaana's revelation of Travelling to Alviarin. Furthermore we know that women play a vital role in Masema's 'organisation' they serve as as close to officers as Masema has. Disciplinarians, at the very least.

 

So, thats my suggestion. Masuri and Annoura are Black Ajah, and went in to meet Berylla and Rianna, also of the Black. My guess is that this will all come out soon--Perrin's very next sentence in the quote i put above was 'perhaps those questions could be answered now that there was no need to his Haviar and Nerion did not need to be kept safe' (they were both masquerading as Masema's followers until that point, when Perrin had Balwer pull them out).

 

 

 

Another interesting thought--how was Masuri able to attend so many meetings without the Wise Ones knowing it? Answer... she almost certainly couldn't. :D

[Bob T Dwarf]

There's certainly something unusual going on with those two, but I doubt that it's Moggy who's pulling their strings.

 

Recall that Masema also received a 'Get Out of Jail Free' card from Suroth.  Suroth is/was Semirhage's creature.  Semi is in league with Mesaana and Demandred.  Whatever Masuri and Annoura may be up to would be most likely to dovetail with those three's plans.  IF it isn't simply ordinary Aes Sedai we-know-better-than-anybody-what-needs-to-be-done-in-every-circumstance meddling.

 

It does seem likely that their continued ability to visit Masema's camp required some Wise One connivance.  But, the 'Wise Ones' both are not nearly as wise as they like to pretend, and have their own private agendas, as well.  Agendas that could be used by the Dark even if those agendas are not Dark in themselves.

[Majsju]

The main problem with having them as BA is that it is quite a bit too obvious. About as subtle as a hammer in the face.

[Luckers]

There's certainly something unusual going on with those two, but I doubt that it's Moggy who's pulling their strings.

 

I agree completely--Moghedian's not in charge of anything anymore. Oh, I definately think that she originally sent Berylla and Rianna--or at least one of the two--to escalate the situation with Masema, but the current game is Moridin's. No doubt about it.

 

Recall that Masema also received a 'Get Out of Jail Free' card from Suroth.  Suroth is/was Semirhage's creature.  Semi is in league with Mesaana and Demandred.  Whatever Masuri and Annoura may be up to would be most likely to dovetail with those three's plans.  IF it isn't simply ordinary Aes Sedai we-know-better-than-anybody-what-needs-to-be-done-in-every-circumstance meddling.

 

I doubt Semirhage is involved--she has no reason to know of the presence of Aes Sedai amongst Masema's followers, and she herself hasn't played any part in Masema's career--for the same reasons as Demandred, and more. No, no Chosen was playing that game, and only other figures nearby I can see doing it is Rianna and Berylla.

 

The main problem with having them as BA is that it is quite a bit too obvious. About as subtle as a hammer in the face

 

And yet no one has to date ever suggested them. I checked. The only way they were 'obvious' is in that there is something wierd going on. I believe that until this post, no one ever layed out the question of what connected Masuri and Annoura, yet excluded Seonid--nothing I could find, anyway. And I searched quite extensively.

 

So no, I hardly see how its as subtle as a hammer in a face--or even near to that. Indeed--Taim as a darkfriend--that was as subtle as a hammer to the face. Semirhage as Anath. Satelle as an Aes Sedai... this...?

[mikey sedai]

I can't speak for Masuri, but when Annoura first meets Cadsuane (no chapter reference - sorry) she is described as frantically rubbing her fingers together, which the character whose POV this is thinks is odd for such a calm negotiator.

 

We'd learnt of the BA hand signal earlier on in the books from Delana and Halima, and Annoura's fidgeting always sounds VERY similar to me.

 

Altho, it could just be extreme nerves having met her childhood hero.....

[42Bonzo88]

    I hope I'm getting this right, it's been a long time since I've read this part and request help if I've got it wrong. Wasn't Annoura Aes Sedai to Berelain? And, if so, I remember Berelain not being too happy with her when she found out. Again, this could go as Aes Sedai meddling, or the BA theory. I just wanted to throw that out.

 

    Very interesting theory, and makes me that more excited for the finale, so we can clear up these questions.

 

[Asmo]

Yes, they are very likely to be Black Ajah. But as was mentioned before, I doubt Moghedien has any authority on them whatsoever now. Anything she ever had a hand on would have been wrung out of her after her failure, and if she did have something to do with those particular sisters, it'd be in the hands of Moridin by now, or any other Forsaken he chose to handle the issue. Graendal comes to mind, because it could provide a very good "excuse" for her appearance, and she has been deemed as a rather trustworthy servant to the Shadow, compared to others.

 

However... "Let the Lord of Chaos rule". Why would the Black Ajah push for Masema's execution? He's clearly causing enough havoc everywhere for ten men. Or do they think he may become a potent weapon in Rand's hands? Or betray them, if he's a Darkfriend himself (which is very likely, considering his connections to Suroth)?

 

And yes, Annoura was Berelain's advisor, and was sent to Ghealdan along with Perrin and Fail (the pun never gets old).

[Luckers]

I can't speak for Masuri, but when Annoura first meets Cadsuane (no chapter reference - sorry) she is described as frantically rubbing her fingers together, which the character whose POV this is thinks is odd for such a calm negotiator.

 

We'd learnt of the BA hand signal earlier on in the books from Delana and Halima, and Annoura's fidgeting always sounds VERY similar to me.

 

 

I always just ascribed that to nervousness, but that is a very, very interesting thought. Good catch man. Good catch.

 

Yes, they are very likely to be Black Ajah. But as was mentioned before, I doubt Moghedien has any authority on them whatsoever now

 

Ok, so we are clear on this, i wasn't suggesting Moghedian was ordering them, i suggested that Moghedian had ordered Berylla and Rianna, two of Liandrin's Thirteen, from Amador to escalate the situation with Masema--that is connected only in that it provides for who else Annoura and Masuri might have met with in Masema's camp.

 

Anything she ever had a hand on would have been wrung out of her after her failure, and if she did have something to do with those particular sisters, it'd be in the hands of Moridin by now, or any other Forsaken he chose to handle the issue. Graendal comes to mind, because it could provide a very good "excuse" for her appearance, and she has been deemed as a rather trustworthy servant to the Shadow, compared to others.

 

Whilst this sort of manipulation is definately something Graendal could pull off, I doubt it. Moghedian is leashed to Moridin, and held close--and Moridin himself has proven more than apt at such manipulations (aka Moerad). Between the two i suspect Moridin is the one pulling the strings with this...

 

But then thats assuming anyone is pulling the strings. Its possible Masuri (who instigated the meetings) was in the same heart as Rianna or Berylla (specifically i suggest that they learnt she was there and approached her, and that she brought Annoura in due to the finger signals Mikey raised). This i concider very likely. Their meetings don't have the organised purpose of a specific plan--they are meetings only, collaborations... two groups of like interest feeling each other out in the event that they need to work together.

 

However... "Let the Lord of Chaos rule". Why would the Black Ajah push for Masema's execution? He's clearly causing enough havoc everywhere for ten men. Or do they think he may become a potent weapon in Rand's hands? Or betray them, if he's a Darkfriend himself (which is very likely, considering his connections to Suroth)?

 

I concider it very unlikely that Masema is a darkfriend. His fervour is something Perrin can smell, and his actions--i doubt anyone in the world could do what he did without true zealous belief in the cause.

 

As for why Masuri would urge his death--my guess is that they were setting up a martyr scenario. Perrin kills Masema, and Berylla and Rianna reveal that and incite an attack on Perrin. Possibly resulting in scattering the Dragonsworn in all directions--chaos.

 

My guess is that originally Masuri supported leaving Masema alive because of all that you raised, it was only after meeting with Berylla and Rianna that she changed her mind--due to their plans? They had, after all, been with the Dragonsworn much longer.

[Asmo]

Yes, you are right about Moghedien. I just essentially repeated it to toss in the possibility of Graendal, because I doubt Moridin would bother himself with something as small as two Black sisters in Masema's camp, and since Shaidar Haran commented on Graendal's ability and dexterity, she's a valid target to be assigned that sort of duty. But well, nothing really concrete stands for that, so it's more of a wild guess than a theory.

 

Zeal... Elza Grinwell is zealous, too, and even envious of others for their place close to Rand. She's fervent to see the Dragon Reborn reach the Last Battle safe and sound. Who can say what Masema thinks? Perhaps he means to lead the armies of Light in all their glory to Tar'mon Gaidon, so that they can be crushed at their fullest by the Shadow. Nothing says the Shadow's servants need to think rationally...

 

You may argue that Elza's attitude may be a result from being demi-Compelled by Verin to some obscure purpose, which may well be having Rand alive at Tar'mon Gaidon (which was also one of Verin's stated purposes), but that doesn't mean that one can't think that way without external influence.

 

I mostly believe Masema is a Darkfriend because of his connections with Darkfriend Seanchan, which I fail to find any other substantially reasonable explanation for.

 

As for the hand sign, why would Annoura franctically do it when she's nervous? If anything, if Cadsuane had a hint of how the Black Ajah interact, she'd mess herself up big time. Or did she hope Cadsuane was Black Ajah?

[Luckers]

Zeal... Elza Grinwell is zealous, too, and even envious of others for their place close to Rand. She's fervent to see the Dragon Reborn reach the Last Battle safe and sound. Who can say what Masema thinks? Perhaps he means to lead the armies of Light in all their glory to Tar'mon Gaidon, so that they can be crushed at their fullest by the Shadow. Nothing says the Shadow's servants need to think rationally...

 

Well, firstly, its Elza Penfell. Else Grinwell was a novice.

 

Secondly, fanaticism is a function of compulsive belief, whether power wrought or not. Elza's beliefs come from the harsh confliction between her personal loyalties and her compelled loyalties--her resultant compromise must therefore be harsh.

 

But thats irrelevant. Elza's fanatacism is not personally intentional. Masema's similarily is not either--no fanatic can be. Certainly not one whose influence can build a mob, something i doubt Elza could do anyway. The heavy flow of emotions needed to do that simply cannot be faked. Elza is not faking them, neither is Masema.

 

Masema's progression into the leader he is does not sustain him being a darkfriend. Does not allow it, in fact. He may well be being manipulated by darkfriends, but he himself cannot be one. No one could fake that sort of irrational fervour--you could be compelled into a position of holding it, much like Elza, I suppose, but nothing in Masema's growth suggests that, and who would have done so anyway?

 

What I'm saying is that rational or not, no person loyal to the Shadow could serve as Masema serves. Its impossible--the insanity is too true, too focussed. Masema may be being manipulated by figures of the shadow, but he himself is too truly insane than to be anything other than what he is.

 

I mostly believe Masema is a Darkfriend because of his connections with Darkfriend Seanchan, which I fail to find any other substantially reasonable explanation for.

 

The Seanchan leash channelers. Reason enough for him to approach them. In reverse the Seanchan have shown themselve willing to accept unstable allies, they did so with the Whitecloaks. There is no need for explanation there, just two different sides playing for power.

 

As for the hand sign, why would Annoura franctically do it when she's nervous? If anything, if Cadsuane had a hint of how the Black Ajah interact, she'd mess herself up big time. Or did she hope Cadsuane was Black Ajah?

 

I imagine she did, if indeed she were making those gestures. As for why she would do it frantically--if she was doing it then she was not nervous, but rather hiding the signs in a display of nervousness. After all, people note when people randomly make obscure signs with their hands whilst calm. In the apparent flurry of nerves, in adjusting skirts and fidgeting, one could make the nessasary signals. And it makes sense for her to do so with Cadsuane. A new powerful player apears near the Dragon--it makes sense to immediately find out if they are friend or foe.

[mikey sedai]

As for the hand sign, why would Annoura franctically do it when she's nervous? If anything, if Cadsuane had a hint of how the Black Ajah interact, she'd mess herself up big time. Or did she hope Cadsuane was Black Ajah?

 

 

You're Black Ajah. Cadsuane turns up.

 

You may have met her, you may not have. But you do know that she was the most powerful Aes Sedai in living history until recently.

 

You're going to see if she's on your side surely. And nervous in case she isn't.

 

And Luckers, cheers. One of my missions during any re-read I do, is to find any Aes Sedai making this hand gesture. It can't have been thrown in for no reason surely? And Annoura is the only one that comes close as far as I can see.....