Why don't the Forsaken make angreal/ter'angreal/sa'angreal???

[Lord Nik]

Saidar and saidin were used together for most greater purposes in the AoL because it was more effective so. But it is not essential.

 

Furthermore, I think that it is quite probable that the creation of angreal requires a person to be naturally Talented. However, Elayne being the only one after 3000 years seems strange???

 

Also, Aviendha seems to have a talent for recognizing the purpose of a ter'angreal simply by holding it. And Egwene is a dreamer. So many talents are suddenly surfacing now. It is odd that none have had these abilities for a very long time (exception Coriannin). Surely in 3000 years SOMEBODY would have had the talent for making angreal?

 

Furthermore, the Choden Kal were surely made with a very large number of Aes Sedai. So, did all these Aes Sedai have the 'Talent' for making sa'angreal? If so, then why is the number so low now?

 

If we had asked RJ, he would have said 'The Pattern provided what is needed.' This is, in my opinion, RJ's most tremendously wonderful idea. By incorporating the Pattern as something that tries to balance the world while it is weaving, he has managed to pass of an aweful number of coincidental events as 'work of the pattern.' While it is acceptable, it gets a little annoying at times. Too many coincidences are being passed off as work of the pattern.

 

It is a rare talent to be able to make terangreal ect. And Elayne is not the only one able to make terangreal ect... Damane for the seanchan have made hundreds and hundreds of collars for the empire. The abilities and talents have most likely been in people for the past 3000 years but they just did not know it. Because Aes Sedai had a very bad habit of saying something is impossible, then stubbornly believeing that it is indeed inpossible. Such as egwene bbeing a dreamer. Very few Aes sedai give her credit to that because it is "impossible." And the reactions Nyneave recieved when she healed logain. I believe that that talents and abilites were there, but the people with them were ignorant of there excisetnce. And say the few aes sedai that may have found a talent that was lost, other aes sedai could have just called her down for being foolish.

[RAND AL THOR]

Because Aes Sedai had a very bad habit of saying something is impossible, then stubbornly believeing that it is indeed inpossible.

 

I completely agree with that. There is no Aes Sedai who is actually 'wise'-they're all just stubborn fools who believe that everything they say is right.

[Luckers]

I completely agree with that. There is no Aes Sedai who is actually 'wise'-they're all just stubborn fools who believe that everything they say is right.

 

I dunno. Cadsuane's pretty wise, and Verin. Pevara too, and maybe Seaine. Siuan has her moments too.

 

 

[Valinthros]

I completely agree with that. There is no Aes Sedai who is actually 'wise'-they're all just stubborn fools who believe that everything they say is right.

 

I dunno. Cadsuane's pretty wise, and Verin. Pevara too, and maybe Seaine. Siuan has her moments too.

 

I'd have to say it's a combination of both.  Alot of experience, knowledge, and PRIDE can definitely equal foolishness.  Which way they sway is likely a matter of personal experience.  I think there are many Aes Sedai who definitely disagree on topics, quite fervently.

 

At the same time, the potential to lead wisely through that knowledge, experience and CONFIDENCE is quite high in Aes Sedai.

 

Veers off the beaten path, just thought I'd share.

 

My thoughts on the topic at hand stand as stated above:  If the Forsaken could, they'd have made them by now.  Everything points to making Angreal/Sa'angreal/Ter'angreal as being a talent.  The notes from Seanchan only add more weight to that.  Not every Damane can make the leashes.

 

The only thing I beleive that isnt left answered here is:  Who CAN make Angreal/Sa'angreal?  Can a channeler who makes Ter'angreal also make Sa'angreal or Angreal?

 

;)

[Luckers]

Well i don't actually think most Aes Sedai are wise. Oh, due to their training methods they are all intelligent, well educated, strong willed women. But that doesn't really infer wisdom--indeed, to my mind the majority of them are fools more concerned with trying to 'appear' Aes Sedai, rather then simply being Aes Sedai.

[RAND AL THOR]

Well i don't actually think most Aes Sedai are wise. Oh, due to their training methods they are all intelligent, well educated, strong willed women. But that doesn't really infer wisdom--indeed, to my mind the majority of them are fools more concerned with trying to 'appear' Aes Sedai, rather then simply being Aes Sedai.

 

YAY! Someone agrees with me!

[Lord Nik]

Again a combination of both... doesnt matter where you are you can always find fools. And i believe that the people who do have the talent of making angreal can make san/ter angreal as well (just opinion there :) ) and it is deffinatley a talent in a regards to 2 seperate parts of the series. When Elayne is trying to teach other aes sedai to make angreals ect. and most of them cant make them. And when egwene was a damane, her suldam said something like " if you can make collars you will be very special (blah blah blah) and you will be treated well and you wont have to fight.

--

Back on the topic of aes sedai wise and everything... alot of them seem to be foolsih, rash, and stubborn. that can be true for some cases but give them some slack, this is the most terrible experience for aes sedai, there world is breaking. For the past 3000 years there numbers have been dwindleing, they know that and it hurts, they have been losing talents, finding out that there are more "wilders" than trained aes seadai; they know that and it hurts. The Dragon has been reborn and instead of guiding him, binding the nations for the last battle, the fabled white tower is split, nations warring, hold on the world slipping through there fingers like water. They know that and it hurts... Long story short they have tremendous strain.

yes sometimes the aes sedai really piss me off.. like there stubborn ignorance and such but one thing irks me even more. How all the aes sedai are being treated! im sick of windfinders stomping on aes sedai, how wise ones grind aes sedai in the dirt. How respect of aes sedai is getting lost in the winds of time itself! if the white tower was whole this would not happen. I really hope in the last book egwene gets raised, and makes the world respect aes sedai again! there is a foretelling about the amrylin seat bringing the fury of the white tower on the world or something somewhere in the series. So yea.. aes sedai = respect!!

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think the point of it all is that, in order to get respect, you've got to give respect.

 

From all we can tell, for as long as there has been a Tower, the AS have respected no one and nothing but themselves.  Sometimes they're polite on the surface, but there's always been a mailed fist inside that velvet glove.

 

Now, they've run into two groups who think exactly the same way they do.  The Sea Folk and the Aiel.  They are finally getting a taste of their own medicine.  The bullies have finally met some bigger bullies.

 

Sadly, they really aren't learning any humility from it.  And, the Sea Folk and the Aiel are neither teaching nor learning anything positive from it either.

[RAND AL THOR]

There are two chief things that Aes Sedai need to get into their lead-lined heads:

 

1) They are not the supreme creators of the universe. Hence, they should respect other people, especially people of his status such as kings/the dragon. The Wise Ones are exceptionally respected among the Aiel. Aes Sedai should not look down on them. She should consider them as equals. (which will likely not happen till the Wheel rots and stops turning).

 

 

2) They must learn to accept mistakes and also the accept criticism. When Nynaeve yells at them in LOC about staying in Salidar and being afraid of that they have to do, they set her punishments. But what she said was totally correct. They must learn to accept their errors! But of course, Accepted are students so what Nynaeve said there is still a little intolerable.

 

Elayne seems to be a fine Aes Sedai. She accepts her mistakes. But she too sniffs a little too much.

 

A final point: I HATE THE WINDFINDERS IN KOD. MY god, I loved the Sea Folk earlier in the series- especially when Nyn/Elay went to Tanchico but in the latter books, they make me sick. The was they treat Aes Sedai is disgusting (I'm saying this despite my view of Aes Sedai so you can see how much I do dislike the Sea Fold behaviour). In KOD when Logain meets the Mistress of the Ships, there is an Aes Sedai present and she is treated worse than a servant!

[Lord Nik]

A final point: I HATE THE WINDFINDERS IN KOD. MY god, I loved the Sea Folk earlier in the series- especially when Nyn/Elay went to Tanchico but in the latter books, they make me sick. The was they treat Aes Sedai is disgusting (I'm saying this despite my view of Aes Sedai so you can see how much I do dislike the Sea Fold behaviour). In KOD when Logain meets the Mistress of the Ships, there is an Aes Sedai present and she is treated worse than a servant!

Quote by Rand al Thor

 

AGREED THE NEW WINDFINDERS SUCK!!!!!!!

i complet;ey agree with you! the way they trrat they AS make me sick! But honestly i think that egwene  is going to put everyone in place... from AS to WF

in kind of the same boat as WF and elayne.. is the wonderful agreement elayne with the windfinders on behalf of the WHITETOWER! get off your freaking high horse you snobby little !@#$% you have more duties and people dont scrape for you anymore cause your not in andor! im sorry but i HATE elayne in all the books... except she gets a small amount of respect from her actions in KoD. Just a bit but i still dont like her at all....

but back to that terrible deal that she made for EVERYONE!

oh yea!

the windfinders have lost there prcious bowl of the winds.. the real deal should have been you help us we give you your bowl that WE (we as in AS and elayne ect.) found for you! because normally we just take angreal back to the tower cause its OURS and WE found it! but no elayne just had to give way to much. (looking back to all the times she gave large amounts of gold to beggars and everyone when she really should not have) she says hey windfinders.. instead of being reasonable and just giving you back the bowl... we will give you.. lets see.. oh! ho about 20 aes sedai a year for who knows how long... oh and you can treat the AS like shit as a bonus.. and you can come to the tower.. sit in ANY lesson.. you can treat the AS in the tower like crap to. you can demand anything from AS and well give it to you.. no what? ill just gve you the tower! thats seems fair to me dumb elayne! oh almost forgot.. you get you bowl to.....

damnit elayne u fail

sigh*

 

[RAND AL THOR]

LOL Lord Nik absolutely right!

 

Elayne might as well have offered the Ship Mistress the Amyrlin Seat iteslf! How can any one Aes Sedai have the power to make such extreme decisions? It makes no sense. And add to that the fact that she was JUST raised (and even that without the Oath Rod). But I like the way she takes charge in the Palace.

 

But I actually liked Elayne in the earlier books-especially where she maintains peace between Ny and Egwene. She got annoying after she got pregnant.

One particular thing that is annoying is how she keeps thinking that its Rand's fault that she is pregnant. I mean, Rand didn't pull down his trousers and pounce on her! SHE is the one who comes to HIM and says: You will have to help me with my buttons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lord Nik]

Lol thanks :D

the reason i dont like elayne is her snobby attitude. But the main reason! When she is with mat... she keeps causeing dissension amound the red arms... with her "oh im all suprised that there clean ect" and "oh about time you did something right mat"... and throghout the WHOLE series! her constant disregard for mat.. constantley its "mats a drunkard" and "oh mat just has some ragtag army because rand gave it to him" and "mat a soldier! (elaye giggles foolishly to her self) blah blha blha im a noob!"

grr she angers me greatly!~

and mats my favourite character so her remarks on him is not doing anything for her rep

(i had to edit this cause it posted before i was done :S)