A'dam and sparkers

[aevogt]

In TGH, Nynaeve successfully wears and a'dam.  She then wears the bracelet holding Moghedien captive.

 

Suian and Leanne, before they were healed, both wear the bracelet and feel Moghedien's emotions, but are unable to make her feel or do anything.

 

Why then, is Satelle Anan unable to wear the leash that was placed around Jolien's neck.

 

Was it bacuase she was burned out rather than severed?  What implications does this have towards the prospects of her being healed.

 

I think this means that a woman who was burned out cannot be healed as there is nothing there to heal.

 

 

[Nethran Thaimal]

Sounds right to me.  Elayne's leashless a'dam is about an exact match to the Seanchan one, so it makes sense. There's generally always a "maybe this" or "maybe that," but I think this is one of those things that this'll be the most likely answer and nothing else will make complete sense.

[algspkr]

We do not have a discription of Satelle Anan's experience beyond not being able to walk with Jolien.  We do not have any information on Suian and Leanne other than they can feel Moghedien's emotions and cannot make her feel anything.  I would guess that Suian and Leanne would not have been able to walk Moghedien, and that Satelle Anan felt Jolien's emotions.

[Luckers]

Well, firstly there is an issue here that makes this deceptive, and that is that Elayne's a'dam is not an exact match. The a'dam Moghedian wears does not have any requirement in it that the bracelet be worn in order that the damane be able to move, and normal a'dam do. This was something Elayne specifically altered.

 

So, with a normal a'dam, if the damane moves the bracelet at all she experiences agonizing stomach cramps--exactly of the type that Joline experiences--and if you notice they occur immediately upon Joline and Setelle moving--in point of fact it is even specified as resulting from the second step, which is what Egwene states to be as far as she could move the bracelet in tGH.

 

Beyond that aldspkr is correct--we don't know what Setelle felt, and given the failure plus her desire not to be revealed as an ex-Aes Sedai she had no reason to speak up. And Suian and Leane likely couldn't have walked Moghedian if she had a normal a'dam around her neck--but she did not, and they did not attempt to move anyway.

 

 

[aevogt]

Well, firstly there is an issue here that makes this deceptive, and that is that Elayne's a'dam is not an exact match. The a'dam Moghedian wears does not have any requirement in it that the bracelet be worn in order that the damane be able to move, and normal a'dam do. This was something Elayne specifically altered.

 

So, with a normal a'dam, if the damane moves the bracelet at all she experiences agonizing stomach cramps--exactly of the type that Joline experiences--and if you notice they occur immediately upon Joline and Setelle moving--in point of fact it is even specified as resulting from the second step, which is what Egwene states to be as far as she could move the bracelet in tGH.

 

Beyond that aldspkr is correct--we don't know what Setelle felt, and given the failure plus her desire not to be revealed as an ex-Aes Sedai she had no reason to speak up. And Suian and Leane likely couldn't have walked Moghedian if she had a normal a'dam around her neck--but she did not, and they did not attempt to move anyway.

 

 

 

But the fact that Joline immediately went into cramps seems to indicate that the leash was attached to a woman who can't channel.  Exactly the samereaction she would have if it was hanging on a peg.  Does that make sense?

[dyring]

Well, firstly there is an issue here that makes this deceptive, and that is that Elayne's a'dam is not an exact match. The a'dam Moghedian wears does not have any requirement in it that the bracelet be worn in order that the damane be able to move, and normal a'dam do. This was something Elayne specifically altered.

 

So, with a normal a'dam, if the damane moves the bracelet at all she experiences agonizing stomach cramps--exactly of the type that Joline experiences--and if you notice they occur immediately upon Joline and Setelle moving--in point of fact it is even specified as resulting from the second step, which is what Egwene states to be as far as she could move the bracelet in tGH.

 

Beyond that aldspkr is correct--we don't know what Setelle felt, and given the failure plus her desire not to be revealed as an ex-Aes Sedai she had no reason to speak up. And Suian and Leane likely couldn't have walked Moghedian if she had a normal a'dam around her neck--but she did not, and they did not attempt to move anyway.

 

 

 

But the fact that Joline immediately went into cramps seems to indicate that the leash was attached to a woman who can't channel.  Exactly the samereaction she would have if it was hanging on a peg.  Does that make sense?

 

Yes, but the point luckers wants to make, is that if we switch (pre-healing)siuan in instead of Setalle there, and let her take two steps with joline, we don´t know if joline would have the same cramp reaktion as she did with Setalle.

 

 

[Luckers]

But the fact that Joline immediately went into cramps seems to indicate that the leash was attached to a woman who can't channel.  Exactly the samereaction she would have if it was hanging on a peg.  Does that make sense?

 

I'm confused...

 

Firstly, she didn't immediately go into cramps. I stated that--she and Setelle took two steps, the exact amount required to trigger the 'moving the bracelet' cramps as stated by Egwene.

 

Secondly, yes it is the reaction she would experience if it were either attached to a woman who couldnt channel, or a peg on the wall. Moghedian would almost certainly have felt the same had she been wearing a normal a'dam when Suian was wearing the bracelet and they'd tried to move. What's the issue?

 

 

Edit upon seeing dyrings post--yes that is exactly my contention. Well said.

[aevogt]

So...

 

Moghedien might have experienced cramps if she or Suian had tried to move.  And Suin might have felt something with Joline.

 

We don't know that Satelle didn't feel something.

 

Actually, I now see your point and you're right, we're missing too much information to make a judgement.

 

Thanks for clearing it up.  Sometimes I assume that what I see in the is actually what is there.

 

[Luckers]

Just one thing.

 

Moghedien might have experienced cramps if she or Suian had tried to move.

 

No, she wouldn't have. Elayne specifically altered the a'dam when she made the one that Moghedian wears in order to allow the bracelet to be moved without it being worn without Moghedian getting the cramps.

 

The rest is all spot on with what i was trying to suggest.