13 - the Magic Number

[trakand_01]

A thought just came to me, however this hinges on one particular fact that i THINK i read somewhere, but need clarification; were the Forsaken Aes Sedai in their time? I'm sure I read that they were (although i know that they each had their own 'profession).

 

If this is true, I wonder...

 

It takes 13 Aes Sedai, as we have seen, to shield and hold a man who can channel (Rand). But nothing says the sex of these Aes Sedai. There are 13 Forsaken. Is it possible that this could be significant?

 

Granted some of them are dead, Rahvin is gone forever as the rules of Balefire say, but the rest... even Asmodean could quite easily come back at TG. Is there anything to say that the Horn of Valere can only work once? I dont know if there is, there may well be but if not, is it possible that Mat (or someone else) could blow the horn AGAIN, and call back 'heroes' who could work on Rand's side, 13 dead 'Aes Sedai' to hold the DO?

 

I havent read book 11 yet but I get the impression that Lanfear turns to the light... but i may be wrong. Halima and Dashiva I think are always going to be dark, but Moghedien... I think she could be turned, she is opportunist and I think if Moridin released her, she may well go to the light. Asmodean, I think would go to the light. The others... I'm not so sure. I think Sammael may possibly work for Rand, or LTT as he sees him. Maybe some 'modern' Aes Sedai (or Asha'man) could make up the number, leaving Rand to make the final blows...

 

Have i got my facts wrong?

[Moiraine_Damodred]

Rahvin isn't the only one that was Balefired.  Be'lal and Sammael were as well.  And I doubt that the DO is gonna reincarnate a traitor for any reason, so I doubt Asomdean is coming back(assuming he wasn't balefired as well, which most people believe he was but there is no definite proof of).

[The Dragon Reborn]

I dont know if there is, there may well be but if not, is it possible that Mat (or someone else) could blow the horn AGAIN, and call back 'heroes' who could work on Rand's side, 13 dead 'Aes Sedai' to hold the DO?

 

As soon as Mat blew the horn, he became linked to it. It would, from then on, only work for him. It can be used again, but only by Mat, however, kill Mat and the horn is useful to everyone again. The problem is that Mat died and only for Rand's balefiring the shite out of Rahvin, Mat would of stayed that way. It is possible that this broke Mat's link to the horn, but taking the rules of balefire into account leaves people unsure what to believe. Personally, I think it is still linked to him, thanks to balefire.

13 to shield the DO? No. 1. Ho do you know that the DO is male, he waaay too powerful. 2. Who knows if he bothers to channel, or can. 3. He has God-like powers, no 13 could do anything to him.

 

It takes 13 Aes Sedai, as we have seen, to shield and hold a man who can channel (Rand). But nothing says the sex of these Aes Sedai. There are 13 Forsaken. Is it possible that this could be significant?

 

Actually any number can hold a shield on a man, if strong enough. You only need a shield with 13 for a shield 'that no man can break.'

 

A thought just came to me, however this hinges on one particular fact that i THINK i read somewhere, but need clarification; were the Forsaken Aes Sedai in their time? I'm sure I read that they were (although i know that they each had their own 'profession).

 

Yes they were all Aes Sedai. They just had different area of expertise. Some were very highly respected and in high positions of authority.

 

I haven't read book 11 yet but I get the impression that Lanfear turns to the light... but i may be wrong. Halima and Dashiva I think are always going to be dark, but Moghedien... I think she could be turned, she is opportunist and I think if Moridin released her, she may well go to the light. Asmodean, I think would go to the light. The others... I'm not so sure. I think Sammael may possibly work for Rand, or LTT as he sees him.

 

I can't see any of them jumping ship at this stage in the game. Especially since Rand has given most of them strong reason to hate them. Sammael will never turn to the light and especially won't serve Rand, he hates LTT with a passion. The only thing that is even slightly possible  would be to seek protection from the side of the Light  in exchange for info. None of them will ever truly repent their sins.

 

 

[ilConte]

We don't really know that Sammael is dead at all because we never get proof that he died. When Rand starts Balefiring the whole of Shadar Logoth, he wouldn't notice if Sammael had Traveled away in the confusion. In my opinion he may still be lurking in the shadows waiting for the oppurtune moment to seize power.

 

It may be possible that some of the Forsaken turn to Light, I can see Sammael, Lanfear and Asmodean doing so, but I doubt the others would, they're to fond of the power the DO gave them. As to Moghedien she's too scared of Moridin to even think of escaping and turning to the Light.

 

ilConte

[lou]

sammael got eaten by mashadar, so i believe that since it is a "soul eater" sammael is beyond the DO's influence, much the same as if he had been balefired, there is simply nothing left to work with. lanfear would be the last person to go to the Light. i believe that if a forsaken would have turned, it would have been asmodean, but he never got the chance. the rest are too far gone into the shadow to ever come back. IMO

[Guest silver89]

We actually never see Sammael get "eaten" by mashadar we assume it because Rand assumes thats what happened.  ;) 

[RobertAlexWillis]

The author apparently assumed it too.

 

Q: "It has been reported that you have confirmed that Sammael died at the end of A Crown of Swords. Could you confirm that you have said this and elaborate on whether Rand was correct?"

 

A: "Mashadar killed Sammael. Sammael is toast!"

 

-CNN chat transcript, 12 December 2000

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=19

 

Sorry.  Sammael is dead.  Killed by Mashadar.  Not coming back.

[Guest silver89]

I stand corrected...damn I'd have like to have seen Sammael pop up again. :)

[Luckers]

It takes 13 Aes Sedai, as we have seen, to shield and hold a man who can channel (Rand). But nothing says the sex of these Aes Sedai. There are 13 Forsaken. Is it possible that this could be significant?

 

The custom that it be 13 formed as a way of ensuring the circle that had to deal with a man had the strength to deal with any man, even if the women in the circle are amongst the weakest in the Tower. There is no special significance to the number thirteen that makes a shield stronger except that there are thirteen women contributing strength to said shield. Note, for instance, that in LoC Rand is concerned that he is not strong enough to stand against a circle of seven even with his angreal, or the fact that we know Cadsuane has taken down many men who can channel alone.

 

On the other hand, we also know that were a circle of thirteen to attempt to shield a man using the Choedan Kal, they would not be strong enough. They'd probably even have some dificulty with a man wielding Callandor, unless the women were all of above average strength (which keep in mind very few Aes Sedai are).

 

sammael got eaten by mashadar, so i believe that since it is a "soul eater" sammael is beyond the DO's influence, much the same as if he had been balefired,

 

I believe this too, and that like Machin Shin, Mashadar is formed from the remenants of souls--specifically the souls of the citizens of Aridhol.

 

But, that being said, we don't actually know for sure that Mashadar actually consumes souls. It's likely, but not certain.

 

Either way though i dont think we'll be seeing Sammael again. There seems to be a time constraint on recycling souls, and Sammael did die disobeying the direct commands of the Dark One--which exceeds both Lanfear and Moghedian's crimes.