An Alternative Take On Transgender Channelers

[AceOfQueens]

I want to talk about how transness is often discussed in the fandom.  Because of Aran'gar, many folks treat it as a foregone conclusion that a trans person would have a gender that matches the sex of their soul, and this is reflected in most of the fanfiction I've found which addresses the topic.

 

I have taken to calling this the cosmic validation interpretation.  There is no issue with this interpretation, however I personally struggle to relate to it.

 

I prefer interpretations which acknowledge the inherent messiness of gender as a social construct (never mind the whole kerfuffle that is the intersex spectrum).  As a trans woman who does not experience bottom dysphoria, I want to see trans men who are comfortable embracing Saidar, and trans women who enjoy seizing Saidin.  But I also want to see trans sparkers who experience power dysphoria, where the ability to sense Saidin or Saidar makes them experience dysphoria, and would rather be severed altogether.  I like the idea of exploring trans channelers who try to burn themselves out.

 

Many folks use Aran'gar to 'justify' the cosmic validation interpretation, which I don't like, largely because I don't think any interpretation needs to be justified, but also because I feel that Aran'gar can just as easily be used to justify the opposite interpretation.  Aran'gar very quickly adapts to, and comes to enjoy her new role as a woman, but is unbothered by her ability to channel Saidin.  This could be used to argue that her gender is fluid.  Now, while the text does suggest that this is more out of her capacity to be a creep, I still don't think it is ignorible.  Also, IIRC, it has been stated by Jordan or some other authority that the personalities a soul has had in the past does not necessarily allow one to predict the personalities that one would have in the future (it is my understanding that the Forsakens' projections of Lews Therin onto Rand are just that; projections).

 

Again, I'm don't think there's any issue with the more popular interpretation.  Fandom and fanon is all about having fun, and if you have fun with any interpretation, explore that.  I just haven't seen anybody speak up about this kind of interpretation, the one that says "you don't need to have a male soul to be a man, or a female soul to be a woman".  One's gender is not tied to their biological sex, so why should it be tied to that of the soul?  So I thought I'd be the one to bring up such an interpretation.

[Asthereal]

4 hours ago, AceOfQueens said:

I want to talk about how transness is often discussed in the fandom.  Because of Aran'gar, many folks treat it as a foregone conclusion that a trans person would have a gender that matches the sex of their soul, and this is reflected in most of the fanfiction I've found which addresses the topic.

 

I have taken to calling this the cosmic validation interpretation.  There is no issue with this interpretation, however I personally struggle to relate to it.

 

I prefer interpretations which acknowledge the inherent messiness of gender as a social construct (never mind the whole kerfuffle that is the intersex spectrum).  As a trans woman who does not experience bottom dysphoria, I want to see trans men who are comfortable embracing Saidar, and trans women who enjoy seizing Saidin.  But I also want to see trans sparkers who experience power dysphoria, where the ability to sense Saidin or Saidar makes them experience dysphoria, and would rather be severed altogether.  I like the idea of exploring trans channelers who try to burn themselves out.

 

Many folks use Aran'gar to 'justify' the cosmic validation interpretation, which I don't like, largely because I don't think any interpretation needs to be justified, but also because I feel that Aran'gar can just as easily be used to justify the opposite interpretation.  Aran'gar very quickly adapts to, and comes to enjoy her new role as a woman, but is unbothered by her ability to channel Saidin.  This could be used to argue that her gender is fluid.  Now, while the text does suggest that this is more out of her capacity to be a creep, I still don't think it is ignorible.  Also, IIRC, it has been stated by Jordan or some other authority that the personalities a soul has had in the past does not necessarily allow one to predict the personalities that one would have in the future (it is my understanding that the Forsakens' projections of Lews Therin onto Rand are just that; projections).

 

Again, I'm don't think there's any issue with the more popular interpretation.  Fandom and fanon is all about having fun, and if you have fun with any interpretation, explore that.  I just haven't seen anybody speak up about this kind of interpretation, the one that says "you don't need to have a male soul to be a man, or a female soul to be a woman".  One's gender is not tied to their biological sex, so why should it be tied to that of the soul?  So I thought I'd be the one to bring up such an interpretation.

 

I personally read into WoT that channelers would have access to either Saidin or Saidar, but never both and they can never switch. But since there's a heavy socially constructed aspect to gender, channeling either doesn't mean you'd have to be stuck in the corresponding gender. But I'd be very interested to read a story based on your interpretation. There are many interesting story ideas to draw from it (from either, really), but I feel like I wouldn't do it justice, being a cis guy who hasn't written much yet anyway.

 

I'm pretty sure Jordan never gave this whole idea much thought. He's from a backwater village just like our protagonists, and the gender discussion wasn't really a thing back when he started working on WoT. Which basically means all bets are off for fanfic. I say go for it. 🙂 

 

PS. If you want to bounce some ideas around, let us know.

Edited August 27 by Asthereal

[Andra]

22 hours ago, AceOfQueens said:

I want to talk about how transness is often discussed in the fandom.  Because of Aran'gar, many folks treat it as a foregone conclusion that a trans person would have a gender that matches the sex of their soul, and this is reflected in most of the fanfiction I've found which addresses the topic.

 

I have taken to calling this the cosmic validation interpretation.  There is no issue with this interpretation, however I personally struggle to relate to it.

 

I prefer interpretations which acknowledge the inherent messiness of gender as a social construct (never mind the whole kerfuffle that is the intersex spectrum).  As a trans woman who does not experience bottom dysphoria, I want to see trans men who are comfortable embracing Saidar, and trans women who enjoy seizing Saidin.  But I also want to see trans sparkers who experience power dysphoria, where the ability to sense Saidin or Saidar makes them experience dysphoria, and would rather be severed altogether.  I like the idea of exploring trans channelers who try to burn themselves out.

 

Many folks use Aran'gar to 'justify' the cosmic validation interpretation, which I don't like, largely because I don't think any interpretation needs to be justified, but also because I feel that Aran'gar can just as easily be used to justify the opposite interpretation.  Aran'gar very quickly adapts to, and comes to enjoy her new role as a woman, but is unbothered by her ability to channel Saidin.  This could be used to argue that her gender is fluid.  Now, while the text does suggest that this is more out of her capacity to be a creep, I still don't think it is ignorible.  Also, IIRC, it has been stated by Jordan or some other authority that the personalities a soul has had in the past does not necessarily allow one to predict the personalities that one would have in the future (it is my understanding that the Forsakens' projections of Lews Therin onto Rand are just that; projections).

 

Again, I'm don't think there's any issue with the more popular interpretation.  Fandom and fanon is all about having fun, and if you have fun with any interpretation, explore that.  I just haven't seen anybody speak up about this kind of interpretation, the one that says "you don't need to have a male soul to be a man, or a female soul to be a woman".  One's gender is not tied to their biological sex, so why should it be tied to that of the soul?  So I thought I'd be the one to bring up such an interpretation.

The way I read it is that Jordan intended that "souls" (or whatever you want to call them) are gendered, and are therefore what corresponds to the "true" personality of the individual - channeler or not.  And that the gender of the soul need not match the gender of the body.

In the world of the Wheel, a mismatch would necessarily be much rarer than it is in our world, as Aran'gar appears to be the only known example.

But if a naturally-occurring mismatch were to occur, it would most likely result in the trans individual channeling the Power their soul reached for, not what their body would imply.

So a trans man wouldn't just be comfortable channeling Saidin, it would be what they naturally do.  And likewise a trans woman would naturally channel Saidar.

[AceOfQueens]

17 hours ago, Andra said:

The way I read it is that Jordan intended that "souls" (or whatever you want to call them) are gendered, and are therefore what corresponds to the "true" personality of the individual - channeler or not.  And that the gender of the soul need not match the gender of the body.

In the world of the Wheel, a mismatch would necessarily be much rarer than it is in our world, as Aran'gar appears to be the only known example.

But if a naturally-occurring mismatch were to occur, it would most likely result in the trans individual channeling the Power their soul reached for, not what their body would imply.

So a trans man wouldn't just be comfortable channeling Saidin, it would be what they naturally do.  And likewise a trans woman would naturally channel Saidar.

This is the prevailing interpretation of the setting.  I know this.  I explicitly say that in the original post.  This thread is explicitly about an alternative take that I relate to more, that being that a persons gender need not match the sex of their soul.  I ultimately do not care whether or not one interpretation has more precedent; the interpretation I am presenting better reflects my experience as a trans woman, and would prefer to keep this thread focused on the interpretation I have presented.

[Andra]

I think you have misunderstood my post.  Or I have misunderstood how your "alternative take" differs from it.

 

Let me elaborate on my take:

In Jordan's fictional world there are three related, but not identical, things associated with any channeler - the biological sex of their physical body, the "gender" of their soul, and the Source they touch when they channel.  These three related things coincide frequently enough (with only one known exception) that so far as we can tell, everyone in that world believes they cannot be different for any chaneler.  A "female" soul will reincarnate into a female body, and will channel Saidar.

The single example of Aran'gar hints that while the soul and the Power are inextricably linked, the physical body need not be.

This hint leads to the conclusion that in Jordan's fictional world a channeler who was born trans would channel the source that coincided with their soul, not the one that coincided with their body.  Because the soul is the true self - the immortal self - while the body is just the temporary vessel for the present lifetime.

 

That last paragraph is just my conclusion, based on the content of the story.  It could be wrong, and it is certainly open for discussion.  But the first two paragraphs are not.  They are what the story actually says.

 

Perhaps if you explained how you intend "the sex of their soul" to mean something different from what I called "the gender of the soul?"  Since that sems to be your biggest point of contention.

Edited August 30 by Andra

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

This is an interesting discussion. Though as I see it, it really has to rely on speculation - which of course is fine, but I don't think there are many truths that you can wheedle out of the text. Jordan, imho, clearly did not discuss this at all explicitly, and I don't think the case of Aran'gar really gives much information at all. Also the in-world layer of persistent souls adds in a confounding factor that will make real world analogies difficult. 

 

Aran'gar I think tells us little as she is clearly not normal. Her "soul" is somehow transferred to a new body with her entire formed personality and memories. This is not a normal rebirth. Consider the possibility that channeling saidar or saidin is linked to sex, not gender. That it is a consequence of your underlying genetics (which would raise interesting possibilities for certain intersex conditions). Or the alternative that it is a consequence of puberty - so Aran'gar has a mind that has gone through male puberty and a body that has gone through female. That alone makes her a poor analogy for a transgender person in real life. So which power you have access to depends on your hormones at puberty. Or it could decided my neurological features that we would more likely consider as part of gender, rather physical sex. Or possibly even a combination of all three.

 

Aran'gar also has the position that she knows she is male - and has all the memories and experiences to back it up. She also knows that she is in a 100% female body - and why this is. Perhaps dysphoria is less when you know these things with concrete certainty and it was done by the literal source of all evil in the universe, and you are perfectly able to complain as much as you want, with all the consequences that that would bring. 

 

But as far as I can see, there is no evidence to confirm or deny any of these permutations, so all the examples that AceOfQueens suggests are as valid as any other. To me a complicated and nuanced explanation that is messy and unclear is far more satisfying than something like instead of we are born male or female and that is it, we have male or female souls and that is it. The variation on bimodal spectrums seems so much more real to me, rather than just a absolute binary at a different, and let's face it, imaginary level. It could even be something being able to produce viable sex gametes - some people simply could not access either saidar or saidin (but could access the True Power?) and some could access both - though perhaps that would be a fatal condition. What at least I mean is that even with an apparent binary such as sperm or eggs, it doesn't mean that it is that simple underneath, and so it could be for the One Power as well. 

 

The only thing I struggle with is to see One Power gendered in itself. Why would someone in a male body that could access saidar for whatever reason, feel any kind of dysphoria over it? The whole men are from Mars and women from Venus thing about embracing and seizing the Power, doesn't seem to really be a strictly gendered thing. Some men would be more comfortable embracing and vice versa for women. Though of course, seeing as in-world they are literally the gendered power sources that powers all of creation, then maybe such dysphoria would exist even if I cannot imagine it.  

 

[Gudrean]

Souls are genderless. They experience it all at some time or another, this is the point of reincarnation.

[AceOfQueens]

On 8/30/2026 at 1:44 PM, Andra said:

I think you have misunderstood my post.  Or I have misunderstood how your "alternative take" differs from it.

 

Let me elaborate on my take:

In Jordan's fictional world there are three related, but not identical, things associated with any channeler - the biological sex of their physical body, the "gender" of their soul, and the Source they touch when they channel.  These three related things coincide frequently enough (with only one known exception) that so far as we can tell, everyone in that world believes they cannot be different for any chaneler.  A "female" soul will reincarnate into a female body, and will channel Saidar.

The single example of Aran'gar hints that while the soul and the Power are inextricably linked, the physical body need not be.

This hint leads to the conclusion that in Jordan's fictional world a channeler who was born trans would channel the source that coincided with their soul, not the one that coincided with their body.  Because the soul is the true self - the immortal self - while the body is just the temporary vessel for the present lifetime.

 

That last paragraph is just my conclusion, based on the content of the story.  It could be wrong, and it is certainly open for discussion.  But the first two paragraphs are not.  They are what the story actually says.

 

Perhaps if you explained how you intend "the sex of their soul" to mean something different from what I called "the gender of the soul?"  Since that sems to be your biggest point of contention.

I understand what you're talking about.  What you're talking about is the dominant perspective among those who've considered transgender identities in the setting.

 

What I'm saying, is that I prefer to interpret souls as sexed, rather than being gendered.  Gender is psychosocial, whereas sex is biological, and if we extend to the setting of The Wheel of Time, then sex would also be spiritual.

Part of my 'justification' for this interpretation (which again, I don't strictly feel is necessary because fandom is all about nonsense), is that, despite her initial revulsion, Aran'gar actually acclimates, and eventually seems to enjoy her role as a woman.  Deliberately invalidating pseudoscientific paraphilia notwithstanding (if you don't know, look up autogynephilia), I do think this has interesting gender diverse implications for her character, particularly since she continues to be fine with channeling Saidin.
 

The reason I prefer to interpret it this way is because it strips the gender essentialist lens from the setting.  Interpreting souls as cosmically validating of trans identities is fine, but it makes me uncomfortable because it implies that there ever could be a way to validate such things, and also fails to recognize those who fall outside of the gender binary, and those whose gender is dynamic.  Saying that "there just wouldn't be any people with 'male' souls who identify as women" just completely disregards much of the trans experience for a lot of folks.

[AceOfQueens]

On 8/31/2026 at 9:40 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

This is an interesting discussion. Though as I see it, it really has to rely on speculation - which of course is fine, but I don't think there are many truths that you can wheedle out of the text. Jordan, imho, clearly did not discuss this at all explicitly, and I don't think the case of Aran'gar really gives much information at all. Also the in-world layer of persistent souls adds in a confounding factor that will make real world analogies difficult. 

 

Aran'gar I think tells us little as she is clearly not normal. Her "soul" is somehow transferred to a new body with her entire formed personality and memories. This is not a normal rebirth. Consider the possibility that channeling saidar or saidin is linked to sex, not gender. That it is a consequence of your underlying genetics (which would raise interesting possibilities for certain intersex conditions). Or the alternative that it is a consequence of puberty - so Aran'gar has a mind that has gone through male puberty and a body that has gone through female. That alone makes her a poor analogy for a transgender person in real life. So which power you have access to depends on your hormones at puberty. Or it could decided my neurological features that we would more likely consider as part of gender, rather physical sex. Or possibly even a combination of all three.

 

Aran'gar also has the position that she knows she is male - and has all the memories and experiences to back it up. She also knows that she is in a 100% female body - and why this is. Perhaps dysphoria is less when you know these things with concrete certainty and it was done by the literal source of all evil in the universe, and you are perfectly able to complain as much as you want, with all the consequences that that would bring. 

 

But as far as I can see, there is no evidence to confirm or deny any of these permutations, so all the examples that AceOfQueens suggests are as valid as any other. To me a complicated and nuanced explanation that is messy and unclear is far more satisfying than something like instead of we are born male or female and that is it, we have male or female souls and that is it. The variation on bimodal spectrums seems so much more real to me, rather than just a absolute binary at a different, and let's face it, imaginary level. It could even be something being able to produce viable sex gametes - some people simply could not access either saidar or saidin (but could access the True Power?) and some could access both - though perhaps that would be a fatal condition. What at least I mean is that even with an apparent binary such as sperm or eggs, it doesn't mean that it is that simple underneath, and so it could be for the One Power as well. 

 

The only thing I struggle with is to see One Power gendered in itself. Why would someone in a male body that could access saidar for whatever reason, feel any kind of dysphoria over it? The whole men are from Mars and women from Venus thing about embracing and seizing the Power, doesn't seem to really be a strictly gendered thing. Some men would be more comfortable embracing and vice versa for women. Though of course, seeing as in-world they are literally the gendered power sources that powers all of creation, then maybe such dysphoria would exist even if I cannot imagine it.  

 

This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to foster!
 

Regarding The One Power being gendered, even if we decide that, actually, The One Power is not essentially gendered, it's just in a 'gendered mood right now', or what have you, there is still all of the social aspects.  The vast majority of men who channel (men born with male bodies and souls) are channeling Saidin, and their they describe their experience very specifically; they need to seize it.  If a trans man goes to channel, and finds that, actually, in order to channel, he has to do all of the things that the women talk about needing to do, like surrendering, when channeling saidar, then I imagine that could make him dysphoric.

 

It is like how, despite skirts and long hair not being inherently feminine, they're still socialized as feminine things in western culture, so most trans men feel dysphoric about wearing a dress.

 

I also feel that it also opens the door for fanfiction to explore how channelers could bridge that gap.  Okay, say a trans man does want to channel, but he doesn't want to channel saidar.  At the end of the third age, it was discovered how to heal a severed soul.  Could they find a way to 'surgically' connect such a soul to the other power?  Particularly since, it seems those with a connection to saidin or saidar are able to see the power itself, not to mention interacting with it directly, such as with The Cleansing of Saidin.

 

It also presents opportunities for other kinds of gender diversity to be explored.  For example, I think it would have been interesting to explore a turning where, instead of Nynaeve being forced to learn how to  embrace saidar on her own, she instead learned how to work with a power that kind of worked better with her personality, and learned how to seize saidin.  That isn't to say that Nynaeve would have been a trans man in such a turning, or even a trans woman.  She could just be an otherwise cis woman who channels saidin.  (This touches on a topic I care a lot about, that being genital dysphoria in cis gender people, such as an otherwise cis woman who wants a penis).

 

But one big aspect I want to talk about is how it reflects my experience as a trans woman.  You see, much of my dysphoria is actually neurological.  I can literally tell that my brain is functioning in a manner that feels wrong.  You see, when I was in high school, I had a strange jealousy of all of the depressed girls I knew, and I never even realized it.  I later realized that, it's because I was depressed, but it felt wrong, because my depression wasn't manifesting in my brain the same way that it was for them.

 

That is to say, while I don't think that I would feel dysphoric about channeling saidin, I think that I could relate to somebody who does feel dysphoric about channeling saidin, a kind of "I don't know what it feels like to channel saidar, but I know this power feels wrong." kind of thing.

Edited September 2 by AceOfQueens

[KakitaOCU]

For what it's worth, I always took Aran'gar as proof that souls are biologically sexed for the most part but a person can be born wrong.

Obviously everything that follows is speculation, but, as someone who kind of understood who I was even if my egg didn't break until far later...  I always instinctively felt that Aran'gar was a lesson that it's very possible to be born transgender, even if that example was a forced situation.  But, how would it ever really come up unless you had a case of a Transgender person becoming powerful, and how likely is that to happen?

Think on it. 

#1) We represent 1% or less of the population.  At best we're 1 out of every 100 and realistically we're more like 1 out of every thousand.

#2) Society has to accept us for us to be something folks are aware of.  I would imagine certain places in Randland would have no issue with a transgender person.  But most of them just wouldn't grasp the concept and so wouldn't really ever address or deal with it.   So on that level how many transgender people even recognize what they are?  I can see the signs in my life going back to at least five years old, but I didn't grasp the concept until I was in my 30s and then I STILL spent another decade thinking it was too late to worry about it before I finally really accepted who I was and did something about it.  How many people MIGHT be transgender but just never even knew it was an option to consider.

#3) Channelers account for 1-2% of the population.  So... if only 1 out of every possible 500 people is transgender, only 1 out of every 5000 is a transgender channeler?   Now take into account the reality of learning unaided, because let's face it, no Aes Sedai is going around testing "men" for the spark.  And that's just natural sparks, no one who could learn is ever going to find out.

So, given that, I figure there are "men" who COULD wield Saidar and vice versus, but they never discover it, and the few who were sparks died.

As an amusing side note, I did WoT RP back in the AOL days in the 90's.  I invented a construct character like Gholam, except they used wrong souls for their body and channeled the corresponding side.  (Yes, I played a man who wielded Saidar in my teens and never clicked anything odd about myself.  🙂  )