Winternight vs Bel Tine

[Dagon Thyne]

Wiinternight is the final night of winter.  Bel Tine is the first day of spring.

 

The lanterns and dancing are done on Bel Tine in the books.  On Winternight, the go to each others house eat, drink, and exchange gifts.  Rand and Tam arrive in the morning on the same day as Winternight, but Moiraine and Lan had arrived the day before.  The attack on the vilage occurs that night, and Rand carries Tam into the village the next morning, on Bel Tine 

[Andra]

18 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

Winternight is not mentioned. In my understanding/opinion, the attack happens on Beltine. Beltine starts at Sunset on "December 24" and continues to probably Sunset "December 25th".  This is the same as the books.  The books just call Sunset "December 24" to morning "December 25" 'Winternight', which is part of Beltine.  The early part of Beltine.

If someone is saying they will spend Christmas at home, that could mean either Evening Dec 24 or Day Dec 25 or both. 

 

The attack on the Two Rivers in the Show happens on the 'Christmas Eve' part of Beltine.  I guess I don't understand the confusion.  

It's like Hannukah.  Hannukah lasts multiple days.  If something happens on the first day of Hannukah or the 5th day of Hannukah, it's still happening on Hannukah. Something can happen on 'First Night' and still be happening on Hannukah. First Night is also part of Hannukah. It's just instead of 8 days, Beltine only lasts a 'an evening + a day' and that evening is called 'Winternight' and is the first part of the Beltine celebration.

As I always understood it from the books, anyway.  It seems the show approach.

The confusion is simply that you did the same thing I did in my initial response.  As I did, you're answering the wrong question.  You are describing what the book says.  But the question was about what happens in the show.

 

In the show, the attack happens the equivalent of the night of the 25th, not the 24th.  All of the practices associated with holiday - except the dancing on the Green - have already taken place. 

 

Rand and Tam arrived in town the afternoon of Winternight (though it isn't called that).  Lan and Moiraine arrived after dark in the rain the same night.  At the end of the evening Rand and Egwene have a night of hanky panky after washing the dishes.  

The next morning (Bel Tine Day) Fain arrives, and Rand and Tam go back home.

 

The attack happens that night.

 

It's not just that Winternight isn't specifically mentioned.  It's that the attack in the show actually takes place a full day later than in the book.

[Andra]

15 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Wiinternight is the final night of winter.  Bel Tine is the first day of spring.

 

The lanterns and dancing are done on Bel Tine in the books.  On Winternight, the go to each others house eat, drink, and exchange gifts.  Rand and Tam arrive in the morning on the same day as Winternight, but Moiraine and Lan had arrived the day before.  The attack on the vilage occurs that night, and Rand carries Tam into the village the next morning, on Bel Tine 

In the book, yes (except for the lanterns, which Rafe invented).

The timing is different in the show.

[WhiteVeils]

In my family, much of the Christmas celebration happens on Christmas eve...gift opening, midnight mass, etc.  More celebration happens on Christmas day.

 

In the books, visiting door to door happens on Winternight, or 'Beltine eve'. Competitions and maypole dancing happen 'Beltine day'.  The attack happens on Winternight.  The competitions and maypole dancing don't occur because the attack happened the evening before, we only know they exist because Rand thought about them.

 

In the show, instead of visiting door to door on 'Beltine Eve', there is a lantern lighting ceremony and dancing.  This is Beltine...the first part of Beltine. The attack happens on Beltine eve.  On 'Beltine Day', judging from the tables and flowers, etc, it looks like there will be more feasting, and possibly competitions and maypole dancing. But we didn't see those events because, like in the books, the attack happened the evening before.

 

In both books and show, Rand and Tam arrive two full days before 'Beltine Eve'.  Moiraine and Land arrive the evening before 'Beltine Eve'.  Rand and Tam leave the morning of 'Beltine Eve's day.  The attack happens on Beltine Eve.  The next day would be Beltine Day but there's no celebration because of the attack. 

 

The difference from the book is instead of Rand and Tam arriving on 'Beltine Eve Day', they arrive the day before that and stay that night.

I don't know why you think anything happened the evening of Beltine day in the show or book at all.

Edited January 17, 2022 by WhiteVeils

[Andra]

1 hour ago, WhiteVeils said:

In my family, much of the Christmas celebration happens on Christmas eve...gift opening, midnight mass, etc.  More celebration happens on Christmas day.

 

In the books, visiting door to door happens on Winternight, or 'Beltine eve'. Competitions and maypole dancing happen 'Beltine day'.  The attack happens on Winternight.  The competitions and maypole dancing don't occur because the attack happened the evening before, we only know they exist because Rand thought about them.

 

In the show, instead of visiting door to door on 'Beltine Eve', there is a lantern lighting ceremony and dancing.  This is Beltine...the first part of Beltine. The attack happens on Beltine eve.  On 'Beltine Day', judging from the tables and flowers, etc, it looks like there will be more feasting, and possibly competitions and maypole dancing. But we didn't see those events because, like in the books, the attack happened the evening before.

 

In both books and show, Rand and Tam arrive two full days before 'Beltine Eve'.  Moiraine and Land arrive the evening before 'Beltine Eve'.  Rand and Tam leave the morning of 'Beltine Eve's day.  The attack happens on Beltine Eve.  The next day would be Beltine Day but there's no celebration because of the attack. 

 

The difference from the book is instead of Rand and Tam arriving on 'Beltine Eve Day', they arrive the day before that and stay that night.

I don't know why you think anything happened the evening of Beltine day in the show or book at all.

Go back and re-watch the episode.

The attack happened after the daylight events of Bel Tine.  Not the night before them.  The lantern lighting takes place on Bel Tine Day.  

 

And you're simply mistaken about when Rand and Tam arrive in the book.  They explicitly arrive relatively early on the day of Winternight, and go back to the farm the same day after hearing Fain's news about Logain and asking around (discreetly) whether anyone else saw the black rider.  They never stay overnight at the Inn.  Rand is surprised they went back home rather than staying.

 

 

[WhiteVeils]

On 1/15/2022 at 7:28 AM, fra85uk said:

Those episodes also feature an incredible phenomenon of light/matter interaction that the best scientists in the world cannot still solve: flickering flames that produce a homogenenous constant lighting.  

 

22 minutes ago, Andra said:

Go back and re-watch the episode.

The attack happened after the daylight events of Bel Tine.  Not the night before them.  The lantern lighting takes place on Bel Tine Day.  

 

And you're simply mistaken about when Rand and Tam arrive in the book.  They explicitly arrive relatively early on the day of Winternight, and go back to the farm the same day after hearing Fain's news about Logain and asking around (discreetly) whether anyone else saw the black rider.  They never stay overnight at the Inn.  Rand is surprised they went back home rather than staying.

 

 

I agree with the timing you said happened in the book...that's what I said.  Here's my understanding:
Lets call Beltine Eve Dec 24, and Beltine Day Dec 25.  Specific times are just working estimates.

Book:

Dec 23 6pm - Moiraine and Lan arrive in Two Rivers.

Dec 23 10pm - Thom Merrilan arrives in Two Rivers.
Dec 24 10am - Rand and Tam see a dark stranger on the road.

Dec 24 11am - Rand and Tam arrive in Two Rivers

Dec 24 12pm - Padan Fain arrives in Two Rivers, Rand meets Moiraine

Dec 24 3pm - Rand and Tam head back to their farm

Dec 24 7pm - Winternight celebrations begin

Dec 24 9pm - Trollocs attack Two Rivers.

Dec 24 9pm - Trollocs attack Tam's Farm.

Dec 25 5am - Rand reaches Two Rivers with Tam

Dec 25 7pm - Rand flees the Two Rivers with the others.

 

Show
December 23 10am - Egwene has her Women's Circle Initiation

December 23 1pm - Rand and Tam arrive in Two Rivers

December 23 4pm - Egwene arrives at the in after her Circle Initiation and the Women's Circle celebrates her.

December 23 7pm - Moiraine and Lan arrive in Two Rivers

December 23 8pm - Nynaeve sends Perrin home

December 23 9pm - Mat takes his mom home and goes to bed.

December 23 10pm - Egwene and Rand do the dishes and make love.

December 24 12am - Rand and Egwene talk, Rand goes to bed.

December 24 3am - Fade arrives in Two Rivers.

December 24 6am - Rand goes to his 'Thinking Spot'

December 24 7am  - Padan Fain arrives in Two Rivers

December 24 7:30am - Tam has breakfast

December 24 8am - Mat talks to Padan Fain

December 24 8:30 am - Moiraine and Lan start searching the village

December 24 10am - Egwene talks to Rand in his 'Thinking Spot'

December 24 1pm - Moiraine talks to Nynaeve

December 24 3pm - Rand talks to Mat and Perrin

December 24 3pm - Egwene and Nynaeve listen to the wind

December 24 4pm - Rand and Tam return to the farm

December 24 7pm (Sunset) - Beltine celebration begins - Lantern ceremony

December 24 9pm - Beltine dancing begins

December 24 10pm - Trollocs attack the Two Rivers and the Al-Thor farm

December 25 5am - Rand arrives with Tam in the Two Rivers

December 25 6am - Rand flees the Two Rivers with the others.

 

I did go scene by scene with this to make sure.

 

And just to be clear for both:

 

Beltine (in a normal year for book and show):

Beltine begins at 7pm December 24 
    (In the book, with visiting and treats, in the show with a lantern ceremony and dancing)

Beltine continues through the day of December 25

  (In the book, with dancing and competitions, and in the show, we don't know, but maybe the same thing).

 

 

[Andra]

1 hour ago, WhiteVeils said:

 

I agree with the timing you said happened in the book...that's what I said.  Here's my understanding:
Lets call Beltine Eve Dec 24, and Beltine Day Dec 25.  Specific times are just working estimates.

Book:

Dec 23 6pm - Moiraine and Lan arrive in Two Rivers.

Dec 23 10pm - Thom Merrilan arrives in Two Rivers.
Dec 24 10am - Rand and Tam see a dark stranger on the road.

Dec 24 11am - Rand and Tam arrive in Two Rivers

Dec 24 12pm - Padan Fain arrives in Two Rivers, Rand meets Moiraine

Dec 24 3pm - Rand and Tam head back to their farm

Dec 24 7pm - Winternight celebrations begin

Dec 24 9pm - Trollocs attack Two Rivers.

Dec 24 9pm - Trollocs attack Tam's Farm.

Dec 25 5am - Rand reaches Two Rivers with Tam

Dec 25 7pm - Rand flees the Two Rivers with the others.

 

Show
December 23 10am - Egwene has her Women's Circle Initiation

December 23 1pm - Rand and Tam arrive in Two Rivers

December 23 4pm - Egwene arrives at the in after her Circle Initiation and the Women's Circle celebrates her.

December 23 7pm - Moiraine and Lan arrive in Two Rivers

December 23 8pm - Nynaeve sends Perrin home

December 23 9pm - Mat takes his mom home and goes to bed.

December 23 10pm - Egwene and Rand do the dishes and make love.

December 24 12am - Rand and Egwene talk, Rand goes to bed.

December 24 3am - Fade arrives in Two Rivers.

December 24 6am - Rand goes to his 'Thinking Spot'

December 24 7am  - Padan Fain arrives in Two Rivers

December 24 7:30am - Tam has breakfast

December 24 8am - Mat talks to Padan Fain

December 24 8:30 am - Moiraine and Lan start searching the village

December 24 10am - Egwene talks to Rand in his 'Thinking Spot'

December 24 1pm - Moiraine talks to Nynaeve

December 24 3pm - Rand talks to Mat and Perrin

December 24 3pm - Egwene and Nynaeve listen to the wind

December 24 4pm - Rand and Tam return to the farm

December 24 7pm (Sunset) - Beltine celebration begins - Lantern ceremony

December 24 9pm - Beltine dancing begins

December 24 10pm - Trollocs attack the Two Rivers and the Al-Thor farm

December 25 5am - Rand arrives with Tam in the Two Rivers

December 25 6am - Rand flees the Two Rivers with the others.

 

I did go scene by scene with this to make sure.

 

And just to be clear for both:

 

Beltine (in a normal year for book and show):

Beltine begins at 7pm December 24 
    (In the book, with visiting and treats, in the show with a lantern ceremony and dancing)

Beltine continues through the day of December 25

  (In the book, with dancing and competitions, and in the show, we don't know, but maybe the same thing).

 

 

While the order of those events from the show are accurate, I believe they all occur a day later than your timeline.

I believe you've set your sequence the way you have in order to have the attack happen on Winternight, based on knowing it from the book.  But if you just look at the show itself (as I wasn't in my initial response) that presumption disappears.

 

Set aside what you know and just watch the episode for what it actually says.

 

We know that Winternight is never mentioned in the show.  Since no change to the writing would have been necessitated by using the name, I believe the omission is intentional.  They don't say the attack happened on Winternight because it didn't.

 

In the show, the lantern lighting at the river happens before dark.  It isn't a "Bel Tine Eve" thing, it's a Bel Tine Day one.  Sundown?  Sure.  But not dark yet.  As rewritten for the show, the lanterns are the entire point of the holiday.  Why would it happen the night before?  In the book, the competitions, etc. are the point.  They don't happen in the book because the village was recovering from the attack.  They don't happen in the show because they are no longer part of the holiday.

 

Please note: I already spoke of the possibility of the "Bel Tine starts at sundown" thing to explain why Bran would tell Tam that Moiraine could celebrate Bel Tine with them "tomorrow" when in your timeline it would otherwise be the day after tomorrow.

 

I think the simplest answer is what I proposed.  Winternight went away because ... reasons.  The attack happened on Bel Tine.  And is referred to that way in later episodes.

If it was still supposed to have been Winternight, there is no reason not to call it that.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Andra

[WhiteVeils]

They removed the term Winternight because people might think, as you seem to, that Winternight and Beltine are two separate occasions.  The omission is intentional, not to change the timeline, but just to to keep it all under one term...Beltine.  Winternight is and always was the first part of Beltine.  Bran on the 23 says that Beltine is the next day...which it is, starting at 7pm on the 24th.

You're right. The attack happened on Beltine.  Beltine starting at 7pm the 24th.


Otherwise, what daytime activities are happening on Beltine?  The day the boys are town (the 24th) isn't a bunch of celebrations or competitions...it's just normal stuff.

But hey, feel like you want.  I think you're making it more complex than it is.

[Andra]

19 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

They removed the term Winternight because people might think, as you seem to, that Winternight and Beltine are two separate occasions.  The omission is intentional, not to change the timeline, but just to to keep it all under one term...Beltine.  Winternight is and always was the first part of Beltine.  Bran on the 23 says that Beltine is the next day...which it is, starting at 7pm on the 24th.

You're right. The attack happened on Beltine.  Beltine starting at 7pm the 24th.


Otherwise, what daytime activities are happening on Beltine?  The day the boys are town (the 24th) isn't a bunch of celebrations or competitions...it's just normal stuff.

But hey, feel like you want.  I think you're making it more complex than it is.

You should really re-read this thread from the beginning.

You are attributing misconceptions to me that I explicitly addressed and rejected in my earlier posts.

 

In the book, we don't ever see the daytime events (competitions, etc.) for Bel Tine because they don't ever happen.  Because the village was recovering from the attack.  The Spring Pole has been broken.

 

In the show, we don't see those events because Rafe made Bel Tine all about the lanterns.  The Spring Pole on the Green never exists to begin with.  The other events no longer have anything to do with the holiday.  Which is also no longer a celebration of the end of winter and the beginning of spring.

 

I'm not making it more complex; I'm just going by what's actually in the show, without presumptions brought from the book.

 

Referring to Bel Tine Eve as Winternight wouldn't confuse anyone who is capable of following a story.  Removing the reference doesn't improve things in any way unless it actually doesn't happen then.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Andra

[WhiteVeils]

You obviously don't want to try to see it a different way and you want to forcibly create a difference where there isn't one. So, I guess you be you?

[Andra]

1 hour ago, WhiteVeils said:

You obviously don't want to try to see it a different way and you want to forcibly create a difference where there isn't one. So, I guess you be you?

Do you really think anyone needs to "forcibly create a difference" in a show that can't even keep the name of the village the same as the book?  Too many things have been deliberately changed to assume any single detail remains the same, unless something specifically says it is.  And nothing here says it is.

 

You obviously want to deny an obvious difference from being what it actually is.

 

Read the thread again.  It wasn't my question.  And I tried to twist myself in the same pretzels you have to claim the show matched the book.   Then I went back and watched the episode again.

 

The differences are too numerous to list.  Why wouldn't this be?

 

 

[Andra]

So I went back through the episode checking some things.  Including what's in this thread.  And I have some new answers.

 

Sorry, but this is kind of long.

 

 

In the book, Winternight (Bel Tine Eve) celebrated the end of winter, and Bel Tine celebrated the beginning of spring.  The practices associated with the holiday were all about that - a celebration of new life.  So we have physical contests, Spring Pole dancing, coming-of-age rituals, etc.  In a normal year, the first crops have already started to sprout.  In the year the book takes place, winter is late, there's still snow on the ground in patches, and planting hasn't happened yet. 

 

In the show, literally none of that is still true.

 

It's obviously not a late winter with patches of snow in places.  Everything is green, and it's warm.  But is that simply because the unseasonably late winter bit was dropped from the show for ... reasons, or because it's actually a different time of year?

 

We have an answer to that.

When Perrin tells Rand and Mat about troops in Taren Ferry (and Mat colorfully describes what Callie Coplin might do regarding rain), he says it was witnessed by "the boys who went to Taren Ferry with the wool last week."  In sheep-farming communities, the first shearing of the season doesn't *start* until the weather has warmed up enough that newly-shorn sheep won't suffer at night.  So somewhere around late May.  In mountain villages it's even later.  Say early June.  That's when shearing starts.

A town the size of Two Rivers would probably take about a week to finish that first shearing, and get the wool ready to take to market.  Say the second week of June.  Since that happened "last week," Bel Tine is now placed around the third week of June.

In other words, at the Summer Solstice.

Not to mention the fact that you don't throw someone into a river - in the mountains - at the end of winter - and expect them to do anything other than die of hypothermia.

 

In the show, Bel Tine is no longer a "first day of Spring" holiday, or even May Day.  It's a "Midsummer" holiday.  Winternight is no longer part of it, because winter ended three months earlier.

 

Since it's now a Midsummer holiday, none of the early spring celebrations make sense.  So Rafe changed the entire point of the holiday to be not about celebrating new life, but about commemorating the dead.  Of course, the Midsummer celebrations have all those contests as well, but why pick nits?

 

 

 

And it appears that the only reason he changed all that was to allow some early exposition on the concepts of the Wheel and reincarnation.

I guess he couldn't figure out how to do that with a Spring holiday.

Or how to use the name of the actual Midsummer holiday from the books - Sunday.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Andra

[Dagon Thyne]

Technically, they ARE two separate occassions, in the books, just like Christmas Eve and New Years Eve are separate from Christmas Day and New Years Day.  Each one has certain traditions that are distint and not necessarily shared with the other. 

Winternight is more about the food, drink, and gift giving, while Bel Tine focuses on dancing, contests, etc.  

 

The Show doesn't necessarily remove one or the other.  They don't explicitly say that Winternight doesn't exist.  They could have simply moved the attack back one day and had it take place on Bel Tine instead of Winternight, and had Rand, Tam, Lan, and Moiraine all arrive on that same day instead.  And they also changed the Bel Tine tradition to lighting lanterns instead of the ones from the books (dancing the spring pole, contests, etc.)

[Andra]

11 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Technically, they ARE two separate occassions, in the books, just like Christmas Eve and New Years Eve are separate from Christmas Day and New Years Day.  Each one has certain traditions that are distint and not necessarily shared with the other. 

Winternight is more about the food, drink, and gift giving, while Bel Tine focuses on dancing, contests, etc.  

 

The Show doesn't necessarily remove one or the other.  They don't explicitly say that Winternight doesn't exist.  They could have simply moved the attack back one day and had it take place on Bel Tine instead of Winternight, and had Rand, Tam, Lan, and Moiraine all arrive on that same day instead.  And they also changed the Bel Tine tradition to lighting lanterns instead of the ones from the books (dancing the spring pole, contests, etc.)

Except that in the show it's no longer even the same time of year.

Which means that the "winter" part of Winternight is meaningless.  And explains why it's never mentioned.

 

According to another detail mentioned in the episode (wool having already been collected and sent to market) Bel Tine is now much closer to Midsummer - if not actually taking the place of Sun Day.

[Dagon Thyne]

On 2/11/2022 at 10:18 PM, Andra said:

Except that in the show it's no longer even the same time of year.

Which means that the "winter" part of Winternight is meaningless.  And explains why it's never mentioned.

 

According to another detail mentioned in the episode (wool having already been collected and sent to market) Bel Tine is now much closer to Midsummer - if not actually taking the place of Sun Day.

 

I think you're confused.  it's not called Winternight because it takes place in the middle of winter.  It's supposed to be the very last day of winter, and Bel Tine is the first day of spring.  The reason it's cold and snowy on Winternight in the books is because the DO is effecting the weather.  It's supposed to be far more warm, which is mentioned numerus times in EOTW, because their worried about the tobac crops dying because of the unsual cold.    It's supposed to lead into the bowl of winds storyarc because they are trying to correct the weather.  They are likely dropping the bowl of winds, which means there is no reason to have the distorted weather.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Dagon Thyne

[Andra]

1 hour ago, Dagon Thyne said:

 

I think you're confused.  it's not called Winternight because it takes place in the middle of winter.  It's supposed to be the very last day of winter, and Bel Tine is the first day of spring.  The reason it's cold and snowy on Winternight in the books is because the DO is effecting the weather.  It's supposed to be far more warm, which is mentioned numerus times in EOTW, because their worried about the tobac crops dying because of the unsual cold.    It's supposed to lead into the bowl of winds storyarc because they are trying to correct the weather.  They are likely dropping the bowl of winds, which means there is no reason to have the distorted weather.

Please read the thread you're commenting on.

I'm not confused about what Winternight is in the books.

 

The lengthy post immediately prior to yours was specifically about how the show differs from the book in regard to Bel Tine and Winternight.

If you'd like to address any of the points in that post, please feel free.

 

[Dagon Thyne]

1 hour ago, Andra said:

Please read the thread you're commenting on.

I'm not confused about what Winternight is in the books.

 

The lengthy post immediately prior to yours was specifically about how the show differs from the book in regard to Bel Tine and Winternight.

If you'd like to address any of the points in that post, please feel free.

 

The onl explicit change was added lanterns as a Bel Tine tradition.  There is no exidence that anything else changed, other than the attack happening on Bel Tine instead of Winternight.  Just because something wasn't shown on screen, doesn't mean it was removed, and could easily be shown at some other point.  

[Andra]

10 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

The onl explicit change was added lanterns as a Bel Tine tradition.  There is no exidence that anything else changed, other than the attack happening on Bel Tine instead of Winternight.  Just because something wasn't shown on screen, doesn't mean it was removed, and could easily be shown at some other point.  

Given the number of things that were explicitly changed between the books and the show, I don't believe we can assume that "just because something wasn't shown on screen, doesn't mean it was removed."  At this point, we have to assume that if we don't see something, it doesn't exist.

 

But regarding the things we don't see in the show about Winternight/Bel Tine:

We don't see villagers visiting each others' homes on Winternight.

We don't see any of the preparations for the Bel Tine activities described in the book.  Preparations that would have already been underway and visible on screen.  No ground has been set up for any of the contests (which we would have seen).  And more tellingly, there is no Spring Pole on the Green.  We are told explicitly in the book that it was there already, and visible to everyone.

 

On the other hand, what we DO see that doesn't exist in the book:

Egwene being tossed into a mountain river in a nearly see-through dress and not risking death from hypothermia.  Inconsistent with an end of winter/beginning of spring season.

Lanterns for the dead.  Inconsistent with a springtime celebration of new life.

Perrin talking about the wool having been taken to market "last week."  Inconsistent with any season before early summer.  For a mountain community with the climate of the Two Rivers, that probably places Bel Tine around the Summer Solstice.

 

The absence of people visiting each other's homes might be excused as just another form of socializing that now takes place entirely at the Inn.

The absence of preparation for the contests might be excused as occurring off screen.

 

The absence of the Spring Pole can't be so excused.  It is an explicit change.

 

Egwene in the river, the lanterns for the dead, and the wool having already gone to market are all also explicit changes.

 

 

Rafe has changed both the purpose and the time of year of Bel Tine.

Bel Tine is no longer a celebration of new life, it's a commemoration of the dead.  And it happens in at least early summer, rather than the beginning of spring.

 

The purpose was changed to give Rafe the opportunity for on-screen exposition on the religious beliefs about reincarnation and the Wheel.  The time of year was changed presumably because it no longer mattered.  But changing the time of year meant that Winternight would now be meaningless, so any mention to it was cut.