WOT Season 1 and Beyond

[VooDooNut]

Hey All,

I'm creating this thread as a place we can discuss the future of the WOT TV show. This is a thread meant for constructive discussion of the future of the show and how character arcs, clues, foreshadowing, easter eggs, etc. will play out from here.

 

This is not a thread for discussing how good or bad the writers are, when Rafe should be fired, that the show will fail, or other completely meta critiques. 

 

For example:

GOOD: The show constantly powers up the women and powers down the men. This definitely conveys a strong imbalance of power between men and women in Randland. I wonder how this imbalance will be revisited in future seasons. Any thoughts/predictions on this?

 

BAD: The show constantly powers up the women and powers down the men. This show is sexist and Rafe is a joke. Comments like this are dead-ends for the discussion and don't offer constructive criticism. If you feel compelled to post something like this, there are multiple threads in this forum in which to do so.

 

To get the ball rolling, does anyone think we will see more of LTT's time in the AOL in future seasons? Maybe through madness-memories from Rand's perspective? I liked that the cold open from episode 8 showed a part of LTT that was absent in the books, like his paternal nature. (Yes, we know he loved/killed his family in the books, but most of his dead family members aren't talked about much beyond Ilyena.) I've always been curious to learn more about who he was as a person prior to the madness.

[Skipp]

35 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

To get the ball rolling, does anyone think we will see more of LTT's time in the AOL in future seasons? Maybe through madness-memories from Rand's perspective? I liked that the cold open from episode 8 showed a part of LTT that was absent in the books, like his paternal nature. (Yes, we know he loved/killed his family in the books, but most of his dead family members aren't talked about much beyond Ilyena.) I've always been curious to learn more about who he was as a person prior to the madness.

 

It will be interesting to see what they do with LTT.  They didn't need to cast an actor for the role this early unless they had more plans for him.  I hope to see more of the AoL scenes with the character as I think they can add more nuance to the situation the Aes Sedai found themselves in. 

 

I also hope we start to see the Actor in the background of Rand's scenes.  Kinda like what they did with Padan Fain, just have LTT hanging out before Rand starts to hear his voice.

[VooDooNut]

40 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 

It will be interesting to see what they do with LTT.  They didn't need to cast an actor for the role this early unless they had more plans for him.  I hope to see more of the AoL scenes with the character as I think they can add more nuance to the situation the Aes Sedai found themselves in. 

 

I also hope we start to see the Actor in the background of Rand's scenes.  Kinda like what they did with Padan Fain, just have LTT hanging out before Rand starts to hear his voice.

Yes, exactly. I could see there being a lot more callbacks to the AOL in future seasons to set up more parallels/contrasts between what happened then and the events of the 3rd age. I also found it interesting how similar Rand and LTT look in appearance, even though Ishy says they don't look alike.

[Skipp]

I didn't notice to much similarity aside from their height.  Maybe their general facial structure but I am kind of face blind at the best of times.

[VooDooNut]

9 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I didn't notice to much similarity aside from their height.  Maybe their general facial structure but I am kind of face blind at the best of times.

Yeah, it's definitely the bone structure that looks similar to me. Just a couple screenshots for comparison:

but I'm probably just seeing things ?. It would be interesting if, in future moments when LTT takes control of Rand's body, if they actually have the LTT actor Alexander Karim on screen instead of Rand's actor Josha.  I just hope Alexander gets more screen time.

[Scarloc99]

I am hoping the introduction of LTT in this way does not foreshadow removing the visions of Rhuiden, or conversations between LTT and Rand, The fact Rand has been given the angrel he found there also worries me. 
 

Alternatively the visions may be more focused on the link between aiel and Tinkers (this would explain how heavily they featured in season 1). 
 

I am also interested in what the Horn being in a known location means for the hunters of the horn, has the Horn been declared “lost” and so hunters still go looking for it (amusing images of hunters standing around that very throne declaring intent to go hunting in the blight for it). 

[DigificWriter]

1 hour ago, VooDooNut said:

Does anyone think we will see more of LTT's time in the AOL in future seasons?

 

Yes. I think it's a virtual guarantee that we see more Age of Legends stuff, including a depiction, in some fashion, of the Prologue from the The Eye of the World book.

[VooDooNut]

5 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I am hoping the introduction of LTT in this way does not foreshadow removing the visions of Rhuiden, or conversations between LTT and Rand, The fact Rand has been given the angrel he found there also worries me.

Same here. Those are great scenes in the books. I'm very curious to see what Rand does with that sa'angreal early next season.

 

7 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I am also interested in what the Horn being in a known location means for the hunters of the horn, has the Horn been declared “lost” and so hunters still go looking for it (amusing images of hunters standing around that very throne declaring intent to go hunting in the blight for it). 

I always chuckled at this plot in the books. Such brave heroes. In search of a horn. That they never actually find. That has been known about since book 1. I guess all the nobles have to keep themselves entertained somehow. Should of called book 2 "The Late Hunt".

[Scarloc99]

22 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

Same here. Those are great scenes in the books. I'm very curious to see what Rand does with that sa'angreal early next season.

 

I always chuckled at this plot in the books. Such brave heroes. In search of a horn. That they never actually find. That has been known about since book 1. I guess all the nobles have to keep themselves entertained somehow. Should of called book 2 "The Late Hunt".

I mean I always pictured a bunch of knights skipping around with a page banging coconuts behind them lol.

[Scarloc99]

33 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Yes. I think it's a virtual guarantee that we see more Age of Legends stuff, including a depiction, in some fashion, of the Prologue from the The Eye of the World book.

More Wakanda please ;). There are some nice moments in the books where foresaken lament to themselves the lack of technology I would love to see scenes of the foresaken using said technology just to hit home how much they now have to slum it :). 

[Jaysen Gore]

My personal thought is that we have a better chance of getting Rand's LTT memories as on screen flashbacks - the Tinkers protecting the city, Sammael bringing the shadow to the Rhorn M'doi, of course the prologue, and all of the Rhuidean stuff. 

[Jaysen Gore]

7 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I mean I always pictured a bunch of knights skipping around with a page banging coconuts behind them lol.

I just had a worse image - Lord Agelmar after a big plate of Mexican summoning back the Heroes of the Horn by accident.

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I just had a worse image - Lord Agelmar after a big plate of Mexican summoning back the Heroes of the Horn by accident.

Or drunk, as a dare. Hey you will never guess what I got, shall I shall i blow it, 

[notpropaganda73]

I mentioned it in the Ep8 thread but I think that Verin could have an even more interesting role as a knowledge source in the series if they really lean into the fact the Aes Sedai are wrong about prophecies, that they have maybe forgotten aboutt he dual nature of the One Power (or it is has been erased by Black Ajah) etc. Her identity gives her a huge knowledge advantage over practically everyone in Randland.

 

I initially thought Loial could be this source (if they ever let him finish a sentence! Poor Loial) but Verin makes sense and it could lay little hints of her identity as well. 

 

I wonder with storylines being compressed if we will get the Black Tower, Asha'man and Taim a lot sooner than the books. Maybe early season 3. This would also keep Logain around sooner than he appears in the books which would match with Rafe's comment that he'll return "sooner than you think but later than you'd like". 

 

One thing I am curious about - with having to condense and compress - will they go ahead with Taimandred instead of splitting the characters? 

[Scarloc99]

Just now, notpropaganda73 said:

I mentioned it in the Ep8 thread but I think that Verin could have an even more interesting role as a knowledge source in the series if they really lean into the fact the Aes Sedai are wrong about prophecies, that they have maybe forgotten aboutt he dual nature of the One Power (or it is has been erased by Black Ajah) etc. Her identity gives her a huge knowledge advantage over practically everyone in Randland.

 

I initially thought Loial could be this source (if they ever let him finish a sentence! Poor Loial) but Verin makes sense and it could lay little hints of her identity as well. 

 

I wonder with storylines being compressed if we will get the Black Tower, Asha'man and Taim a lot sooner than the books. Maybe early season 3. This would also keep Logain around sooner than he appears in the books which would match with Rafe's comment that he'll return "sooner than you think but later than you'd like". 

 

One thing I am curious about - with having to condense and compress - will they go ahead with Taimandred instead of splitting the characters? 

I am still convinced that Loial was cut off from telling Rand that Egwene could not be Jain because he is male. I might be very wrong there but I hope Loial is seen as a knowledge source. 

I also wondered about Verin, I am convinced that the first thing the Black Ajah would do is try and erase/re write as much history and prophecy as possible. It fits into the Aes Sedai way of thinking. Verin then becomes far more then just a massive snitch, she gives Egwene a massive amount of information and history and just stuff the Black Ajah have wiped from the records. 

[Vambram]

19 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I mentioned it in the Ep8 thread but I think that Verin could have an even more interesting role as a knowledge source in the series if they really lean into the fact the Aes Sedai are wrong about prophecies, that they have maybe forgotten aboutt he dual nature of the One Power (or it is has been erased by Black Ajah) etc. Her identity gives her a huge knowledge advantage over practically everyone in Randland.

 

I initially thought Loial could be this source (if they ever let him finish a sentence! Poor Loial) but Verin makes sense and it could lay little hints of her identity as well. 

 

I wonder with storylines being compressed if we will get the Black Tower, Asha'man and Taim a lot sooner than the books. Maybe early season 3. This would also keep Logain around sooner than he appears in the books which would match with Rafe's comment that he'll return "sooner than you think but later than you'd like". 

 

One thing I am curious about - with having to condense and compress - will they go ahead with Taimandred instead of splitting the characters? 

 

I believe that if the show is going to get closer to the books' prophetical lore and also the back stories of characters as well as the books' histories that are foundational to a lot of the books' plot, then the best tv show character to do that is going to have to be Verin. 

 

As for Taim and Demandred, I greatly would prefer if the TV show gives us 2 different characters as Robert Jordan did. 

[Jaysen Gore]

What I think they’re doing.

 

AKA “Many of the truths we cling to are only true from a certain point of view” – some lying M.F.’er

 

TLDR; I think the way Rafe and Co. are going to tell the Wheel of Time is through everyone’s PoV, except Rand’s, with the focus on the various women in his life. The others will get solid PoV’s, but Rand’s solo stuff will be very limited. All the talk about untrustworthy narrators is because we won’t know what’s going on in Rand’s head, and most everyone will be wrong.

 

To support that, most of Rand’s early super-epic saviour stuff will be eliminated, and the scary / dangerous channeller dude will be emphasized. And it’s not that he does nothing – he will still do the biggest things at the end – but almost all his epic moments – except 3 (Balefiring Graendal’s retreat, the  cleansing, and the sealing) – will either be cut, or done by others. As they mostly are in the books after book 4.

 

Consider:

All 5 of the dropped (ie non-statue) Forsaken were killed during combat / battle with Rand involved (Rand not always responsible). Of those remaining, only Sammael and Ishamael were killed around Rand. If we lose Moridin, he won't kill Ishamael until the very end. If we lose Osan’gar, I expect Sammael is the one Graendal binds for balefiring. But otherwise, Rand plays no part in dealing with the Forsaken.

 

By dropping the Eye, we lost Tarwin’s Gap, and the deaths of Aginor and Balthamel. By dropping sword training, we won’t get Turak or Be’lal or a man in the sky or sheathing the sword. Without Rahvin, there’s no raid on Camelyn, and undoing the deaths there. If Tear is cut for time, there is likely no chain lightning through the Stone.

 

And after Rhuidean, Rand is a leader, doing philosophical things, disrupting cultures, and taking over the world. But he is not doing it himself in an epic fashion. He is Caesar, not Alexander. And according to the modern interpretation of history, Caesar was a villain.

 

Also, by not giving us Rand’s PoV:

1. they get to emphasize the similarity to LTT, leading to a possible repeat of the cycle, and the fear and terror of everyone who comes in contact with him except the main 6 and his 3 girls.

2. they can play with the Lanfear seduction angle for a long time.

3. they can paint him as a tyrant – hanging nobles and Aiel alike, without much inner conflict, or only through Min’s PoV.

4. Rand’s manhandling of Egwene / Elayne, his conversations with LTT, finding the access keys, his treatment of the Aes Sedai after DW, and his targeting of Graendal all take on a new terrifying aspect.

5. the fears of Elaida, Sorilea, Cadsuane, and others can all be played up.

 

Without changing most of the post DR plot beats, once the decision is made to eliminate the Forsaken they did, it’s going to be very easy to set this whole thing up as “Is Rand Al’Thor going to save the world, or destroy it?” And without seeing what’s in his head, it will be easy to paint the actual series plot milestones in a very different light. Without actually changing them.

 

And without changing those major plot beats, they have the ability to tell a pretty unique story – the story of a chosen one who actually doesn’t get to do anything that a chosen one does.  So it will be The Wheel of Time. Only one that is told from a different point of view.

 

If you are emotionally attached to Rand, you're likely to despise this series; if your faves are other than Rand, you should be fine.  Because they will all get their moments. But until Veins of Gold, I think the whole point of the series is to convince the audience that Rand is likely to destroy the world. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Jaysen Gore

[Skipp]

37 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

What I think they’re doing.

 

AKA “Many of the truths we cling to are only true from a certain point of view” – some lying M.F.’er

 

TLDR; I think the way Rafe and Co. are going to tell the Wheel of Time is through everyone’s PoV, except Rand’s, with the focus on the various women in his life. The others will get solid PoV’s, but Rand’s solo stuff will be very limited. All the talk about untrustworthy narrators is because we won’t know what’s going on in Rand’s head, and most everyone will be wrong.

 

To support that, most of Rand’s early super-epic saviour stuff will be eliminated, and the scary / dangerous channeller dude will be emphasized. And it’s not that he does nothing – he will still do the biggest things at the end – but almost all his epic moments – except 3 (Balefiring Graendal’s retreat, the  cleansing, and the sealing) – will either be cut, or done by others. As they mostly are in the books after book 4.

 

Consider:

All 5 of the dropped (ie non-statue) Forsaken were killed during combat / battle with Rand involved (Rand not always responsible). Of those remaining, only Sammael and Ishamael were killed around Rand. If we lose Moridin, he won't kill Ishamael until the very end. If we lose Osan’gar, I expect Sammael is the one Graendal binds for balefiring. But otherwise, Rand plays no part in dealing with the Forsaken.

 

By dropping the Eye, we lost Tarwin’s Gap, and the deaths of Aginor and Balthamel. By dropping sword training, we won’t get Turak or Be’lal or a man in the sky or sheathing the sword. Without Rahvin, there’s no raid on Camelyn, and undoing the deaths there. If Tear is cut for time, there is likely no chain lightning through the Stone.

 

And after Rhuidean, Rand is a leader, doing philosophical things, disrupting cultures, and taking over the world. But he is not doing it himself in an epic fashion. He is Caesar, not Alexander. And according to the modern interpretation of history, Caesar was a villain.

 

Also, by not giving us Rand’s PoV:

1. they get to emphasize the similarity to LTT, leading to a possible repeat of the cycle, and the fear and terror of everyone who comes in contact with him except the main 6 and his 3 girls.

2. they can play with the Lanfear seduction angle for a long time.

3. they can paint him as a tyrant – hanging nobles and Aiel alike, without much inner conflict, or only through Min’s PoV.

4. Rand’s manhandling of Egwene / Elayne, his conversations with LTT, finding the access keys, his treatment of the Aes Sedai after DW, and his targeting of Graendal all take on a new terrifying aspect.

5. the fears of Elaida, Sorilea, Cadsuane, and others can all be played up.

 

Without changing most of the post DR plot beats, once the decision is made to eliminate the Forsaken they did, it’s going to be very easy to set this whole thing up as “Is Rand Al’Thor going to save the world, or destroy it?” And without seeing what’s in his head, it will be easy to paint the actual series plot milestones in a very different light. Without actually changing them.

 

And without changing those major plot beats, they have the ability to tell a pretty unique story – the story of a chosen one who actually doesn’t get to do anything that a chosen one does.  So it will be The Wheel of Time. Only one that is told from a different point of view.

 

If you are emotionally attached to Rand, you're likely to despise this series; if your faves are other than Rand, you should be fine.  Because they will all get their moments. But until Veins of Gold, I think the whole point of the series is to convince the audience that Rand is likely to destroy the world. 

 

An interesting thought/theory.  I could certainly see the appeal in making Rand seem more nebulous, have the audience see him the way all the characters not named Min see him in the books.

 

I am not sure if the showrunners would be willing to commit to that.  Aside from alienating book fans who already hate the show or are straddling the fence I think you risk the non reader audience turning on him.  Maybe that is the idea but the appeal of Rand is knowing he is trying to do the right thing but is constantly feel like he is failing.  And then he just starts taking the path of least resistance by browbeating everyone in his path as he descends.

 

The story could work but like I said they would really need to commit to it and I don't think they would be able to do that.  Even in season 1 I feel they needed to commit more to some of the idea's they had but they seemed to want to do everything.  The one I was thinking on today was the dream aspect.  They played it up for episodes 2 and 3 before dropping it until episode 8.

 

Now I am just rambling, thanks for posting such an interesting line of thought.

[EmreY]

2 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

What I think they’re doing.

 

AKA “Many of the truths we cling to are only true from a certain point of view” – some lying M.F.’er

 

TLDR; I think the way Rafe and Co. are going to tell the Wheel of Time is through everyone’s PoV, except Rand’s, with the focus on the various women in his life. The others will get solid PoV’s, but Rand’s solo stuff will be very limited. All the talk about untrustworthy narrators is because we won’t know what’s going on in Rand’s head, and most everyone will be wrong.

 

To support that, most of Rand’s early super-epic saviour stuff will be eliminated, and the scary / dangerous channeller dude will be emphasized. And it’s not that he does nothing – he will still do the biggest things at the end – but almost all his epic moments – except 3 (Balefiring Graendal’s retreat, the  cleansing, and the sealing) – will either be cut, or done by others. As they mostly are in the books after book 4.

 

Consider:

All 5 of the dropped (ie non-statue) Forsaken were killed during combat / battle with Rand involved (Rand not always responsible). Of those remaining, only Sammael and Ishamael were killed around Rand. If we lose Moridin, he won't kill Ishamael until the very end. If we lose Osan’gar, I expect Sammael is the one Graendal binds for balefiring. But otherwise, Rand plays no part in dealing with the Forsaken.

 

By dropping the Eye, we lost Tarwin’s Gap, and the deaths of Aginor and Balthamel. By dropping sword training, we won’t get Turak or Be’lal or a man in the sky or sheathing the sword. Without Rahvin, there’s no raid on Camelyn, and undoing the deaths there. If Tear is cut for time, there is likely no chain lightning through the Stone.

 

And after Rhuidean, Rand is a leader, doing philosophical things, disrupting cultures, and taking over the world. But he is not doing it himself in an epic fashion. He is Caesar, not Alexander. And according to the modern interpretation of history, Caesar was a villain.

 

Also, by not giving us Rand’s PoV:

1. they get to emphasize the similarity to LTT, leading to a possible repeat of the cycle, and the fear and terror of everyone who comes in contact with him except the main 6 and his 3 girls.

2. they can play with the Lanfear seduction angle for a long time.

3. they can paint him as a tyrant – hanging nobles and Aiel alike, without much inner conflict, or only through Min’s PoV.

4. Rand’s manhandling of Egwene / Elayne, his conversations with LTT, finding the access keys, his treatment of the Aes Sedai after DW, and his targeting of Graendal all take on a new terrifying aspect.

5. the fears of Elaida, Sorilea, Cadsuane, and others can all be played up.

 

Without changing most of the post DR plot beats, once the decision is made to eliminate the Forsaken they did, it’s going to be very easy to set this whole thing up as “Is Rand Al’Thor going to save the world, or destroy it?” And without seeing what’s in his head, it will be easy to paint the actual series plot milestones in a very different light. Without actually changing them.

 

And without changing those major plot beats, they have the ability to tell a pretty unique story – the story of a chosen one who actually doesn’t get to do anything that a chosen one does.  So it will be The Wheel of Time. Only one that is told from a different point of view.

 

If you are emotionally attached to Rand, you're likely to despise this series; if your faves are other than Rand, you should be fine.  Because they will all get their moments. But until Veins of Gold, I think the whole point of the series is to convince the audience that Rand is likely to destroy the world. 

 

This would be an interesting take but I think they will go quite that far.

 

It's also incidentally possible to show how dangerous the DR can be by having him kill part of his army while attacking another.  I think that was done in the books too.

 

[ForsakenPotato]

I agree that we'll see more of Rand from the external perspective and that will at times make him less sympathetic than in the books, and the show will play up whether or not he's making the right decisions or could turn to the dark. But they have to make him at least somewhat appealing, otherwise it's not going to be very believable that 3 separate smart and generally upstanding ladies are madly in love with him and have so much confidence in him.

[Jaysen Gore]

17 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

I agree that we'll see more of Rand from the external perspective and that will at times make him less sympathetic than in the books, and the show will play up whether or not he's making the right decisions or could turn to the dark. But they have to make him at least somewhat appealing, otherwise it's not going to be very believable that 3 separate smart and generally upstanding ladies are madly in love with him and have so much confidence in him.

Except he and Elayne already get roasted as a high school crush - and that was before they dropped Camelyn. Avi is basically ordered to engage with him (something about a marriage wreathe or putting her in his bed), and Min was fatalistic due to her visions. So they'll be able to argue that none of them chose him of their own free will. Assuming we get all 3 relationships as written anyway

 

Min will get all of the angsty weight of the world stuff, Avi will get the fighting spirit and not quitting view, and Elayne will get the practical intelligence view. But the audience will have to pay attention to put it all together.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Jaysen Gore

[DaddyFinn]

Rand is my favorite and these ideas are certainly interesting. I also think he will be shown a lot more from other's POV. Of course we need some from his own to really get the difference between them. The books did show us that here and there but not very often.

[Guest Cranglevoid]

In regard to LTT, I really hope they flesh out the whole situation surrounding the decision to try to seal in the DO. They need to emphasize that this was an act of desperation and lack of better alternatives at the end of a bloody war, rather than him just being over-confident and full of pride.

[Jaysen Gore]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

Rand is my favorite and these ideas are certainly interesting. I also think he will be shown a lot more from other's POV. Of course we need some from his own to really get the difference between them. The books did show us that here and there but not very often.

While I would agree that there should be some of Rand's - and will have to be in some of his solo wanderings - aside from his convo's with LTT and Min, I don't think we get any of his self-doubt, and all of his actions

[Jaysen Gore]

48 minutes ago, Cranglevoid said:

In regard to LTT, I really hope they flesh out the whole situation surrounding the decision to try to seal in the DO. They need to emphasize that this was an act of desperation and lack of better alternatives at the end of a bloody war, rather than him just being over-confident and full of pride.

We may get some in his convo's with Rand, but I wouldn't count on many more full flashbacks, beyond the Prologue.