Sailor Moon Mafia [Advanced] Game Thread

[Fredwood]

I said in any order, I don't know which order is the best tbh.   It would require to get more into analysis then I have energy for.  I think Zander and Sooh/DJ are the least Mechanically cleared, and Eldrick and Cuth are the least day phase tone cleared....So it really comes down to which do you put more value in.

 

The fact that you and bop have killed two scum I'd say you're as lock as Clov/Cory at this point.

[Fredwood]

I just finished ISOing Fred, btw.

 

Only one and a half pages of notes for him where I had 4 for Iron xD

That good or bad?

[Spadeszee]

One thing that really stood out to me re-reading his first post about me was he used so many negative words in association with me.

 

 

He said I was "attacking" and "pushing" Darthe, yet my read was an undercut. When I said he was being manipulative, I think it's because of how inconsistent this truly is.

How can I be undercutting my read yet be pushing/attacking that person? This pinged me so hard then and it pings me hard right now.

 

He also started to back peddle when I questioned him. He was willing to talk big, but then suddenly he wasn't sure about it. It feels like he was trying to push for a potential lynch on me (and I say on me, because he said a flip on Darthe/Zander/Sooh could clear me lol, which would make sense to just lynch me instead of the other three)

 

He lock cleared and said he wasn't going to lynch Eldrick or Sooh this game with Cory/Chris following closely behind.

 

His nulls were Cuth, Coward, Iron and Darthe.

 

Leaving Zander, Bop&I and Scruffy in his lower list.

 

He eventually says that I was null with positives and negatives.

 

 

 

After the whole back and forward with him and I, his content then falls off completely.

 

 

Another thing that pinged me is after Scruff flips V, he's hardcore blaming Cuth for this. Like he wasn't voting on Scruffy and like he didn't have power to change his vote onto FC. I never noticed this until my read through, because I was reading Cuth pretty scummy at that point (though Iron 10x worse). 

 

Then there was a moment when he was talking with Zander, the bit where the wolfs were probably on Scruff train and Fred mentions "There is always Eldrick", Zander takes him seriously and Fred says "I was only feeding you paranoia"

 

After that point I had a hard time reading anything else Fred has posted because it's mostly him wanting to be lynched and I absolutely hate that. Basically he hasn't been trying anymore and hasn't analysed any posts like he did at the start (even then it was only really about Zander and Bop&my arguments).

 

Do I read Fred as wolfy?

 

I do. 

 

And I see an Eldrick/Fred world, honestly. If there are 2 scum left, I think it's them.

[Cory Caboose]

I'm gonna reread the thread

 

Wish me luck

[Spadeszee]

I'm gonna reread the thread

 

Wish me luck

gl;hf?

[Fredwood]

I don't think the content falls off after that, because I posted multiple walls.

 

I didn't blame Cuth at all for the scruff flip...in fact I don't think I've mentioned Cuth in regards to the Scruff flip.  My whole case on Cuth is based on his Scoobs town read and that he made a decision to save Scoobs, when i didn't see a reason to read Scoobs town.  Also, he voted in line with Scoobs when Scoobs tried to make that push on Eldrick.  To me those were more damning then landing on Scruff.  I don't have a problem with the POE lynch, but lynching me for stuff that's misrepresenting my play is going to irk me.

 

I need to be lynched because I haven't done anything to warrant not being lynched at this point where everyone else has. Don't twist my intentions and my meaning when I'm giving the free pass, but I guess if you want to see dirt where there is no dirt to justify a good lynch then do it, just don't present it like a case because it's just going to get me annoyed.  I'm not emotionally invested in the game, and you're not going to get max effort from me and I already said this, it has nothing to do with the game it's just where I'm at right now.

[Cory Caboose]

Fredwood it's time for you to consider the fact that I don't like to be wrong and if you're a villager I don't want to lynch you. Would rather have been correct every day. Makes me feel like a real man

 

So don't give up and help me out if you're a villager

 

Maybe you won't have to be lynched because we'll end the game first by lynching right

 

If you're a wolf, uh, feel free to give up :P

[Cory Caboose]

before reread

 

Linz
BopSpades
Zander

 

Cuth
Sooh/DJ

 

Fredwood
Eldrick

[csarmi]

MAJOR VOTECOUNT
 
Fred (1): Cuth
 
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Hybrid hammer is in effect. Deadline is Wednesday (19th Jily) at 11:30 PM EST. Enjoy.

[Spadeszee]

Oops... 

 

The supposed Scoobs D1 meta is a ridiculous easy meta to fake. Like probably the easiest.  Maybe in a sense one doesn't care about d1's usually, but it's just rote memorization to react...oh you're stupid D1s are stupid I'm not participating in your game cus you want me to.  Like I understand not wanting to scum read the guy for it, but to give him town credit for it to the point of actually saving seems incredibly illogical from my point of view.  Yeah you're white knighting the wolf I guess is possible, I just don't think there's a ton there to white knight.  

 

Either way I have 0 faith in Cuth's "read" on scoobs, if he's V it's not genuine because he's just friends with him and wants to keep Scoobs around, which is fine but not a reason he brought up, which I think I would in the same position.  A W/W where he can rely on his history of taking band stands as cover or he's W and Scoobs is really V and he can take a strong stand.  I think him being a villa is shaky atp.

As I said from Scoobs, if he's playing his meta or if he's operating as V in the confines of his meta, I really don't see anything he did at EOD as AI, Town Scoobs and Wolf Scoobs make the same play.  If we're sussing him for other stuff (Weak non committal reads that are somehow lynchable and refusal to participate), that's fine,  I don't think a self pres should be really in play for determining his alliance.

 

I will say the focus on Eldrick ,who had a shade and bail vote on him, being one of his 2 weak reads and was the train he tried to build on... I'm not really sure what to make of it.  I think Darthe is kind of an easy out as the 3rd member, but sometimes the game is easy I guess so (shrug), and he hasn't done anything to separate himself from the 3 while Iron hasn't done anything specific that aligns himself with them.  I think his focus on me is to attack another weak town read to help add more bodies to the Null category, there was no substance at all to his sussing of me, and no attempt to really get a discussion going about me.  I have similar people in my null as well, but didn't really focus on them because I had no formed thought on if they were bad or not.  So I don't think it was a legit push or read on me, it was a strategic move to try and influence and expand the suss list.  If Scoobs is town, I'd like to see more concrete reasons why he thinks I'm scum.

 

TLDR

 

Cuth is my priority lynch today, but will be open to anyone on Scruff wagon.

 

Spicy Hot take is if there's scum on Scoob's wagon who would it be??????

:o Oh?

[Spadeszee]

This is how I took this post.

 

Scruff flipped villager and immediately you're on Cuth for clearing FC for meta, which the meta bs is why I voted FC in the first place. If you saw that, why didn't you change to FC? You mentioned FC was your other D1 pick, but never really read into him, which is why I just read this as being scumtastic.

[Fredwood]

I guess I understand that, but in your shoes I lynch me 9 times out of 10, the one time being if I have a really strong feeling about someone.

 

My feeling is, that no one has a strong feeling about anyone after me in the POE.  I can sympathize because I don't either.

 

Cuth claimed the doctor, to ignore that means you have to consider either him making a sub opitmal play to claim doctor.  Well that would require him knowing that there wasn't a doctor, which I don't see how he could have.  I mean it's a bold move and a all or nothing type of play, and this is certainly the time to do it, so it gets all fuzzy.  At the very least it should buy him a day.

 

Eldrick:  Scoobs in my eyes all but Spewed and voted him clear as mafia. Yes he hasn't been on the wagons at eod but he also claimed the vig shot first (thought the Spades top gun high five gif directed towards bop  felt like a vig claim at the time).  Either way he's the first to actually say he did it.  In a world where Scoobs/Iron/ and Eldrick, do I think it could have been a pre agreed upon strategy to have Scoobs push hard on Eldrick and then use the vig to build cred...Yes, but I have no meta read to back up on whether or not Eldrick does that.  If everyone agreed this was the best move to get a wolf deep, and I had the vig shot, I'd take it. It's a good play.

 

Sooh/DJ: The Sailor Venus stutter looks great to me, the Eldrick vote looks awful, also, lynching someone on the first day after they sub in mid game is kind of something I try to avoid out of courtesy.  

 

Zander:  To me his strongest plus is your emphatic town read on him.  So I wouldn't vote there until you would.

 

So if you can turn one of those 4 into an absolute lock over me, go ahead, because I honestly can't look at all four of them and give you with any confidence who it would be.  My gut still says Cuth, just because he's been my strongest read since day 2, but the doc claim has to at least count for something imo. 

[Cory Caboose]

Scoobs is sort of famous for being a bussy wolf that frequently pushes teammates. Some of it because he tends to not survive very long as a wolf.

[Fredwood]

This is how I took this post.

 

Scruff flipped villager and immediately you're on Cuth for clearing FC for meta, which the meta bs is why I voted FC in the first place. If you saw that, why didn't you change to FC? You mentioned FC was your other D1 pick, but never really read into him, which is why I just read this as being scumtastic.

I think it was very obvious I wanted the tie, in fact I brought up that a tie was the best move at the time.  In fact if you check it was all kind of at the same time where CLov suggested MrsClov or Sooh switch (they were "confirmed" town atp) to switch to even lynches.  MrsCLov did, and Sooh made a "mistake" which required Bop to vote FC because.. So that tells you Clov, Bop and me all thought the tie was the right town move at that point, then that should be the answer to your own question.

 

Also I still had no reason to wolf read FC day one, I thought his participation warranted a second day over Scruffs.  I didn't think Scruff deserved a day 2 because he had no interest in participating further. The way the lynch played out was perfect for town.  

[Cory Caboose]

I'm still very, very sure on Zander

 

His post-d1 content cemented the read more than made me think twice about it

[Spadeszee]

 

I guess I understand that, but in your shoes I lynch me 9 times out of 10, the one time being if I have a really strong feeling about someone.

 

My feeling is, that no one has a strong feeling about anyone after me in the POE.  I can sympathize because I don't either.

 

Cuth claimed the doctor, to ignore that means you have to consider either him making a sub opitmal play to claim doctor.  Well that would require him knowing that there wasn't a doctor, which I don't see how he could have.  I mean it's a bold move and a all or nothing type of play, and this is certainly the time to do it, so it gets all fuzzy.  At the very least it should buy him a day.

 

Eldrick:  Scoobs in my eyes all but Spewed and voted him clear as mafia. Yes he hasn't been on the wagons at eod but he also claimed the vig shot first (thought the Spades top gun high five gif directed towards bop  felt like a vig claim at the time).  Either way he's the first to actually say he did it.  In a world where Scoobs/Iron/ and Eldrick, do I think it could have been a pre agreed upon strategy to have Scoobs push hard on Eldrick and then use the vig to build cred...Yes, but I have no meta read to back up on whether or not Eldrick does that.  If everyone agreed this was the best move to get a wolf deep, and I had the vig shot, I'd take it. It's a good play.

 

Sooh/DJ: The Sailor Venus stutter looks great to me, the Eldrick vote looks awful, also, lynching someone on the first day after they sub in mid game is kind of something I try to avoid out of courtesy.  

 

Zander:  To me his strongest plus is your emphatic town read on him.  So I wouldn't vote there until you would.

 

So if you can turn one of those 4 into an absolute lock over me, go ahead, because I honestly can't look at all four of them and give you with any confidence who it would be.  My gut still says Cuth, just because he's been my strongest read since day 2, but the doc claim has to at least count for something imo.

 

The one time is that my gut reads Eldrick as scum. I think others have a good faith in believing Eldrick took a shot, but my inexperience tells me I don't care, I took the shot and lynched Iron so he's done nothing in my opinion. 

 

 

Bop wouldn't let me claim it, which I'm glad he didn't because who knows if Eldrick would have or not

 

[MrsClov]

I'm only back for a couple of minutes but if we lynch Fred and he flips town, what do we really gain from that? We're still at a point where we we've probably cleared too many people too easily on day 1 and chasing our tails. 

[Fredwood]

Scoobs is sort of famous for being a bussy wolf that frequently pushes teammates. Some of it because he tends to not survive very long as a wolf.

 

So lets go this route.  Do you have any reason to town read Eldrick independent of the Scoobs spew?

 

 

 

I'll also go one further,  who do you kill N2 if you're scum or who do you try to save N1 or 2 if you had the doc (lets just include yourself as a possible target)?  Is the answer always MrsClov for you?  

[Cory Caboose]

In fact, I was bothered by Scoobs reads on both Eldrick and Sooh. It was the "they have lots of content and words but that doesn't mean they are villagery" anti-read I see PoE wolves do to more "deep wolves" all the time. Why this happens I have never truly understood, but from experience I see wolves more ready to chip at wolves who have gained a lot of town credit (despite them probably being... more valuable in the long run lol)

But I would still be pretty surprised if the Sooh/DJ slot isn't a villager

[Spadeszee]

 

This is how I took this post.

 

Scruff flipped villager and immediately you're on Cuth for clearing FC for meta, which the meta bs is why I voted FC in the first place. If you saw that, why didn't you change to FC? You mentioned FC was your other D1 pick, but never really read into him, which is why I just read this as being scumtastic.

I think it was very obvious I wanted the tie, in fact I brought up that a tie was the best move at the time.  In fact if you check it was all kind of at the same time where CLov suggested MrsClov or Sooh switch (they were "confirmed" town atp) to switch to even lynches.  MrsCLov did, and Sooh made a "mistake" which required Bop to vote FC because.. So that tells you Clov, Bop and me all thought the tie was the right town move at that point, then that should be the answer to your own question.

 

Also I still had no reason to wolf read FC day one, I thought his participation warranted a second day over Scruffs.  I didn't think Scruff deserved a day 2 because he had no interest in participating further. The way the lynch played out was perfect for town.  

 

The tie was so we wouldn't hit maj before EoD talk/moves. At least that was Bop and my thoughts. I'm willing to bet that was also Corys thoughts as well.

Not to have a tie vote at the every end. We wanted a FC kill, but that didn't happen.

[Fredwood]

Yeah nothing annoys me more then trying to shade a teammate who's deep.  Which is kind of why I'm giving Eldrick credit for the spew.

[MrsClov]

I assumed the tie was to see what stances people would take.

[Spadeszee]

I assumed the tie was to see what stances people would take.

Right? Not because anyone wanted a tie lynch. 

[Cory Caboose]

 

Scoobs is sort of famous for being a bussy wolf that frequently pushes teammates. Some of it because he tends to not survive very long as a wolf.

 

So lets go this route.  Do you have any reason to town read Eldrick independent of the Scoobs spew?

 

 

 

I'll also go one further,  who do you kill N2 if you're scum or who do you try to save N1 or 2 if you had the doc (lets just include yourself as a possible target)?  Is the answer always MrsClov for you?  

 

Eldrick is a much better wolf than I think most people give him credit for. He's very capable of high volume (typically is in the top posters in either role), is good at faking the emotional twists & turns of a game, will fight off pushes and make cases etc.

 

There's nothing he's done this game thoughtwise for me that makes me think "oh, he has to be a villager"

 

Not really sure who I would kill N2. Would be a very different game if I were a wolf, lol. With Darthe dead Linz is probably now a "priority kill", so would certainly make sense.

 

If I'm 1x doc it is very likely I holster n1 or self-protect to get me & Clov to d2 because we're ego freaks :P I could see a Linz protect n2 for sure.

[Cory Caboose]

d1 eod I think I made it pretty goddamn clear who I wanted lynched :P

Most of the Scruff wagon was on the Scruff wagon because they wanted to be afaict. The only one who was voting facetiously was bop, who switched when it became important to (but FC got saved by Cuth & FC's self-pres)