[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

 

 

not avoiding, redirecting

That's the same thing.

 

If I were avoiding responding to what people's concerns were, you'd have a valid argument.

 

I'm responding and then questioning, but any questioning I do you define as "turning attention away", so basically it's a damned if I do damned if I don't corner that you're putting me in.

 

Which is exactly what you're doing by still not answering my damn questions.

 

I'm not saying that you're scum for it, but I'm saying you're being hypocritical.

 

what questions have i not answered

 

Are you serious right now? I even reposted them for you. Someone (I think Seph) even complained about me cutting out the OMGUS part from my question about Dice and I had to explain that I took it out because you'd already answered that part.

 

i didn't catch them, then

 

which post number was that?

 

*almost swore...quick self edit!*

 

You have quoted multiple quote with that quote inside them. You even responded to one of the questions. I'm having a really hard time believing that you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

ISO me and find it.

 

you evidently know which post it was and i do not

 

i have replied to your posts and answered your questions to the best of my knowledge and it's significantly less effort for you to point me to the post than it is for me to comb the whole thread, particularly if i have the impression that i have answered it, which i likely do

 

i can if you genuinely refuse, but if you wouldn't mind i would very much appreciate it because i can't guarantee i'd find it if i tried

 

I don't know the posts because they're buried in the last 20 pages. So it's just as easy for you to find as it is for me to find.

 

And I'm finding it extremely hard to understand how you could have missed it when you've already responded to one of the questions embedded in the original post (the one about dice and the infamous OMGUS debate) and I reposted the questions after the first time you claimed not to know what questions I was talking about.

 

Both posts were directly addressed to you and quoting you. And you referenced the whole me asking you what your favourite colour was too.

 

Basically my questions were about what you thought about MrsClov's reaction to Darthe claiming vigilante and the subsequent response of Eldrick describing it as not alignment indicative.

 

And then I asked you what you thought of me voting Dice and Dice's reaction to me voting him (the OMGUS debate).

 

And there might have been another one that I'm forgetting at the moment.

 

We've already gone over the me/Dice one ad nauseum. But you can go ahead and answer the MrsClov/Darthe/Eldrick one.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

Cuth, what are your current thoughts on Darthe and why?

ambivalent

 

he has a 75% or so chance of being town

 

i haven't noticed any astonishing tells either way

 

how about you?

 

I'll let you know when he shows up again and finally answers my questions.

 

Right now the best I can say is he's a null.

 

But if you haven't noticed any astonishing tells either way, why is he 75% rather than 50% for you?

 

on average about seventy-five percent of the players in any given game are town

 

Okay...kind of roundabout way of answering the original question, but alright :P

[Cuth]

wait wot

 

are you talking about like that first post you asked me before i came into thread this evening

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

i get that you're trying to create interaction

 

and i'm fine with that and that's great, really it is

 

but i'm not fine with your reactions to any pressure on you

 

if you know you're not scum then you should never start asking "who would my partners be?"

 

that makes no sense as a question that town asks

Read what I wrote above.

 

And I hate when people make statmements like "that makes no sense as a question that town asks"

 

Just because you don't understand the reason for the question doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose.

no legitimately

 

if you are town

 

you know you're town, yes?

 

therefore that question does not make sense to ask

 

because you'd know the assumption behind it is fundamentally flawed

 

you know you would flip town if you got lynched, so why are you saying people should 'look at potential partners' so that the game is more winnable from d2 on?

 

you know you'd going to flip town

 

you know you wouldn't have any partners and so anything said about partners and you would be totally invalid after you flip town

 

you've pretty much convinced me that that was a legitimate slip

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, so let's play a game of pretend.

 

Let's pretend MrsClov and I are scum.

 

Who are our partners?

Idk its d1, surely one wolf is enough atm. This is a distraction post.

Oh really? You're not interested in information that might help solve the game on D2 and so on?

Attempt to turn this denied. Go die now.

Darthe - you're not afraid of some simple questions are you? Why do you keep avoiding them?

 

Answering my questions can only make you look townier if you're town.

So not true. Eye of the beholder.

 

Town can answer a question and still be scum read for it. Scum and answer a question and get cleared for it.

This is true. But do you really think that Darthe is afraid of that?

 

I'm trying to get him to stop avoiding the questions. Sometimes shame is what's required.

No I don't think he's afraid of it. I also don't think you'll get him to answer like that.

[seph]

@liz can't that lead to misguided goals? asking to find to figure out your partners when you are actually indeed town, forces us to try to tie players to you who actually would never have any. That gives us misguided views of others in the thread and can potentially hurt the town. There are other questions that would work better imo. But I think finding them yourselves and making a case is better because asking us seems like your trying to find a out? if that makes sense. 

Kinda like I wonder who else they don't like so I can get someone lynched besides me. It's a tough spot obviously, and I am trying to not let my opinion of new posts be skewed by my vote. But I think casing someone will work more in your favor if you are town. If you get lynched and are town, it at least gives us a better chance at finding the actual scum.

[Cuth]

@liz can't that lead to misguided goals? asking to find to figure out your partners when you are actually indeed town, forces us to try to tie players to you who actually would never have any. That gives us misguided views of others in the thread and can potentially hurt the town. There are other questions that would work better imo. But I think finding them yourselves and making a case is better because asking us seems like your trying to find a out? if that makes sense. 

 

Kinda like I wonder who else they don't like so I can get someone lynched besides me. It's a tough spot obviously, and I am trying to not let my opinion of new posts be skewed by my vote. But I think casing someone will work more in your favor if you are town. If you get lynched and are town, it at least gives us a better chance at finding the actual scum.

yeah i think this might be the case as well

 

unfortunately

 

i think you get what i'm saying but i dunno

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

its still a contradiction  mrsclov   sher needed to consult on Darthe but not on me.

 

if the darthe one is just being a good hydra what is the one on me?? One second she needs to consult then she doesnt on someone else shortly thereafter?

No,  you're making it a contradiction, most likely because it involves you. It was an "Oh yeah, I'm in a hydra" moment. I didn't know about the vote on you until after the vote was placed and we talked it out. So that's when she mentioned conferring with me on Darthe. We fill the same spot, and that's not something either of us are used to doing. It is just a result of us trying to figure out how to hydra for the first time, but you're making it into something else.

 

Bold:

So order of hydra events:

 

- Vote Dice

- Discuss Dice vote

- Discuss conferring on Darthe ?

 

Not necessarily just Darthe just hey let's discuss before we vote, but otherwise you are correct. As you can see from our vote, we agreed to keep it on Dice.

 

Either one can answer this but I don't remember seeing it. Why did you all decide to keep your vote on dice after the joke vote? was it just the omgus reason? I don't think liz ever shared her conclusion.

 

She already explained that we were letting the vote marinate.

 

My current lean on Dice is that he's probably town.

[Lizabeth]

wait wot

 

are you talking about like that first post you asked me before i came into thread this evening

Yes....

[seph]

 

eldrick what's your read on lizaclov

I was gonna comment on this when I caught up, but now works too.

 

Liz's asking who her teammates would be doesn't make sense. I agree with you that town saying that would be pointless once they flipped town, and is a possible slip.

 

They do seem to be focusing on trying to get the attention from them.

 

I disagree with Darthe about his read of MrsClov comparing it to last game, as I already mentioned. It reads as getting used to hydra, and is null.

 

I agree that they are a likely scum candidate.

 

you just called them town a little while ago i believe? I would like to know what exactly changed in your own words.

[Cuth]

 

 

 

 

 

its still a contradiction  mrsclov   sher needed to consult on Darthe but not on me.

 

if the darthe one is just being a good hydra what is the one on me?? One second she needs to consult then she doesnt on someone else shortly thereafter?

No,  you're making it a contradiction, most likely because it involves you. It was an "Oh yeah, I'm in a hydra" moment. I didn't know about the vote on you until after the vote was placed and we talked it out. So that's when she mentioned conferring with me on Darthe. We fill the same spot, and that's not something either of us are used to doing. It is just a result of us trying to figure out how to hydra for the first time, but you're making it into something else.

 

Bold:

So order of hydra events:

 

- Vote Dice

- Discuss Dice vote

- Discuss conferring on Darthe ?

 

Not necessarily just Darthe just hey let's discuss before we vote, but otherwise you are correct. As you can see from our vote, we agreed to keep it on Dice.

 

Either one can answer this but I don't remember seeing it. Why did you all decide to keep your vote on dice after the joke vote? was it just the omgus reason? I don't think liz ever shared her conclusion.

 

She already explained that we were letting the vote marinate.

 

My current lean on Dice is that he's probably town.

 

then WHY are you VOTING him?

 

what point is marinating a vote on someone you believe to be town

 

look a vote is an expression that you think the other person is scum and that you want to kill them

 

you should never just leave a vote on someone because you used to think they were scum if they're town now

 

what is the point in marinating at all?

 

in addition, i saw no progression between scum for omgus and town

 

can you talk me through your thought process there?

 

what in particular led your ideas to change apart from people putting pressure on you and disagreeing with you

 

because you expressed none of that itt

[seph]

 

@liz can't that lead to misguided goals? asking to find to figure out your partners when you are actually indeed town, forces us to try to tie players to you who actually would never have any. That gives us misguided views of others in the thread and can potentially hurt the town. There are other questions that would work better imo. But I think finding them yourselves and making a case is better because asking us seems like your trying to find a out? if that makes sense. 

 

Kinda like I wonder who else they don't like so I can get someone lynched besides me. It's a tough spot obviously, and I am trying to not let my opinion of new posts be skewed by my vote. But I think casing someone will work more in your favor if you are town. If you get lynched and are town, it at least gives us a better chance at finding the actual scum.

yeah i think this might be the case as well

 

unfortunately

 

i think you get what i'm saying but i dunno

 

I do. I am just trying to get as much info itt as possible. It's hard to see it ever coming from a townie. butI have seen lynches formed with those words prove false. 

It would seem more like a slip than something town would say. doesn't mean its impossible. I was let off because I was new for saying something similar lol. I was scum and I killed the bpv with a day lynch ability :) he was the 1 accusing me haha.

was actually a darthe game i think.

[Cuth]

i to

 

 

wait wot
 
are you talking about like that first post you asked me before i came into thread this evening

Yes....

 

i told you i answered that and i told you when

 

but i'd be happy to quote it; give me a second

[Lizabeth]

@liz can't that lead to misguided goals? asking to find to figure out your partners when you are actually indeed town, forces us to try to tie players to you who actually would never have any. That gives us misguided views of others in the thread and can potentially hurt the town. There are other questions that would work better imo. But I think finding them yourselves and making a case is better because asking us seems like your trying to find a out? if that makes sense. 

 

Kinda like I wonder who else they don't like so I can get someone lynched besides me. It's a tough spot obviously, and I am trying to not let my opinion of new posts be skewed by my vote. But I think casing someone will work more in your favor if you are town. If you get lynched and are town, it at least gives us a better chance at finding the actual scum.

I called it the pretend game, remember? does that not tell you that I'm saying "open up your minds".

 

I had to use a variation of that tactic on Cory the last game I played here where he was tunneling me and it worked. Temporarily. We wound up lynching actual scum that day instead of wasting time going around in circles.

 

Regardless of what you think of the tactic, the point is: open your mind!

[seph]

 

She already explained that we were letting the vote marinate.

 

My current lean on Dice is that he's probably town.

 

 

 

I did not take it as something serious, and I was curious if there was a actual reason. thanks

[MrsClov]

 

 

 

 

its still a contradiction  mrsclov   sher needed to consult on Darthe but not on me.

 

if the darthe one is just being a good hydra what is the one on me?? One second she needs to consult then she doesnt on someone else shortly thereafter?

No,  you're making it a contradiction, most likely because it involves you. It was an "Oh yeah, I'm in a hydra" moment. I didn't know about the vote on you until after the vote was placed and we talked it out. So that's when she mentioned conferring with me on Darthe. We fill the same spot, and that's not something either of us are used to doing. It is just a result of us trying to figure out how to hydra for the first time, but you're making it into something else.

Bold:

So order of hydra events:

 

- Vote Dice

- Discuss Dice vote

- Discuss conferring on Darthe ?

 

Not necessarily just Darthe just hey let's discuss before we vote, but otherwise you are correct. As you can see from our vote, we agreed to keep it on Dice.

 

Either one can answer this but I don't remember seeing it. Why did you all decide to keep your vote on dice after the joke vote? was it just the omgus reason? I don't think liz ever shared her conclusion.

 

 

 

Oh good grief you all are impatient. We were trying to figure out how he'd react since he's one of the few players we've both played with and trying to get a read that way. He seemed to only be staying on the topic of Liz and I voting for him to the point where it's been beaten like a rug. I wanted to see if he'd address other topics or not and how other people would respond. He hasn't been back in the thread as far as I know since I explained we're trying to get used to being a hydra. I want to see his reaction to this. 

[Cuth]

uh

 

i know i typed up a post about it and i was almost certain i posted it

 

i remember the wording of it, even

 

huh 

 

ok will redo

[Cuth]

 

@liz can't that lead to misguided goals? asking to find to figure out your partners when you are actually indeed town, forces us to try to tie players to you who actually would never have any. That gives us misguided views of others in the thread and can potentially hurt the town. There are other questions that would work better imo. But I think finding them yourselves and making a case is better because asking us seems like your trying to find a out? if that makes sense. 

 

Kinda like I wonder who else they don't like so I can get someone lynched besides me. It's a tough spot obviously, and I am trying to not let my opinion of new posts be skewed by my vote. But I think casing someone will work more in your favor if you are town. If you get lynched and are town, it at least gives us a better chance at finding the actual scum.

I called it the pretend game, remember? does that not tell you that I'm saying "open up your minds".

 

I had to use a variation of that tactic on Cory the last game I played here where he was tunneling me and it worked. Temporarily. We wound up lynching actual scum that day instead of wasting time going around in circles.

 

Regardless of what you think of the tactic, the point is: open your mind!

 

but it's an absolutely useless thought game

 

since you should know you're town, you know that however much you pretend that you're scum and try to find your partners, that will do absolutely zilch, zero, and nada for town ever because there's no point because you're town

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

 

 

its still a contradiction  mrsclov   sher needed to consult on Darthe but not on me.

 

if the darthe one is just being a good hydra what is the one on me?? One second she needs to consult then she doesnt on someone else shortly thereafter?

No,  you're making it a contradiction, most likely because it involves you. It was an "Oh yeah, I'm in a hydra" moment. I didn't know about the vote on you until after the vote was placed and we talked it out. So that's when she mentioned conferring with me on Darthe. We fill the same spot, and that's not something either of us are used to doing. It is just a result of us trying to figure out how to hydra for the first time, but you're making it into something else.

 

Bold:

So order of hydra events:

 

- Vote Dice

- Discuss Dice vote

- Discuss conferring on Darthe ?

 

Not necessarily just Darthe just hey let's discuss before we vote, but otherwise you are correct. As you can see from our vote, we agreed to keep it on Dice.

 

Either one can answer this but I don't remember seeing it. Why did you all decide to keep your vote on dice after the joke vote? was it just the omgus reason? I don't think liz ever shared her conclusion.

 

She already explained that we were letting the vote marinate.

 

My current lean on Dice is that he's probably town.

 

then WHY are you VOTING him?

 

what point is marinating a vote on someone you believe to be town

 

look a vote is an expression that you think the other person is scum and that you want to kill them

 

you should never just leave a vote on someone because you used to think they were scum if they're town now

 

what is the point in marinating at all?

 

in addition, i saw no progression between scum for omgus and town

 

can you talk me through your thought process there?

 

what in particular led your ideas to change apart from people putting pressure on you and disagreeing with you

 

because you expressed none of that itt

 

Is dice in danger of being lynched right now?

 

no, he is not.

 

Have we decided on someone else to move our votes to?

 

No we have not.

 

Did I ever say that Dice was scum for OMGUSing?

 

Nope, didn't say that. All I said was that he OMGUSed.

 

Do I express every single thought i have in the thread before I get reactions to it?

 

Nope.

 

Have people reacted to that vote in a way that gives information in the thread.

 

Yes, yes they have.

 

We are still very early in D1, I put that vote on Dice even earlier on D1. So why are you so worried about intent to lynch at this stage of the game? Dice hasn't even been around to respond to anything that's happened since then.

[MrsClov]

@Cuth

 

Can you accept that people play differently? Not everything is black and white and not every person who is town is going to follow a certain guideline, nor is someone who is scum. Just because you don't feel something should be done in a game as town, doesn't mean that everyone's going to feel that way. Liz and I are doing things that are going to try to get us intel, and we play for the long game not just a quick lynch on D1 and hope it's scum. So by saying who do you think is our scum team we can look at that person and figure out if we agree or disagree. I get what you all are saying about cases I really do. But how can we case anyone when you all are attacking us and not even giving us a chance. We've been on defense all day, and it's kind of hard to switch to offense when every other post we have to defend ourselves because someone doesn't agree with our playstyle.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

@liz can't that lead to misguided goals? asking to find to figure out your partners when you are actually indeed town, forces us to try to tie players to you who actually would never have any. That gives us misguided views of others in the thread and can potentially hurt the town. There are other questions that would work better imo. But I think finding them yourselves and making a case is better because asking us seems like your trying to find a out? if that makes sense. 

 

Kinda like I wonder who else they don't like so I can get someone lynched besides me. It's a tough spot obviously, and I am trying to not let my opinion of new posts be skewed by my vote. But I think casing someone will work more in your favor if you are town. If you get lynched and are town, it at least gives us a better chance at finding the actual scum.

yeah i think this might be the case as well

 

unfortunately

 

i think you get what i'm saying but i dunno

 

I do. I am just trying to get as much info itt as possible. It's hard to see it ever coming from a townie. butI have seen lynches formed with those words prove false. 

It would seem more like a slip than something town would say. doesn't mean its impossible. I was let off because I was new for saying something similar lol. I was scum and I killed the bpv with a day lynch ability :) he was the 1 accusing me haha.

was actually a darthe game i think.

 

Let me save you some time.

 

I don't slip as scum. When I play scum I'm extremely meticulous and I'm careful about what I say.

 

And I've already stated that I've made the same statement as town on more than one occasion, which makes it a null at best.

[Cuth]

i thought and still do think that darthe's claim was most likely a joke, though not unlikely to be true given the setup

 

we've gone over the omgus, i did say that much

 

i didn't notice it, don't remember it, no opinion on dpr/eldrick/you

 

yes, she is for sure

 

orange followed by blue

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

eldrick what's your read on lizaclov

I was gonna comment on this when I caught up, but now works too.

 

Liz's asking who her teammates would be doesn't make sense. I agree with you that town saying that would be pointless once they flipped town, and is a possible slip.

 

They do seem to be focusing on trying to get the attention from them.

 

I disagree with Darthe about his read of MrsClov comparing it to last game, as I already mentioned. It reads as getting used to hydra, and is null.

 

I agree that they are a likely scum candidate.

you just called them town a little while ago i believe? I would like to know what exactly changed in your own words.

Well they can't be exactly my own words because the reason was discovered by Cuth.

 

You have addressed it as well and it's a really good reason.

 

That she wants us to find her teammates. It makes no sense from a town pov. It's at best misleading.

 

It has some functionality later in the game, after there's a scum flip in the "if I'm scum with them, who's my teammate?" That's still a link to scum. This wouldn't be.

[seph]

 

 

 

@liz can't that lead to misguided goals? asking to find to figure out your partners when you are actually indeed town, forces us to try to tie players to you who actually would never have any. That gives us misguided views of others in the thread and can potentially hurt the town. There are other questions that would work better imo. But I think finding them yourselves and making a case is better because asking us seems like your trying to find a out? if that makes sense. 

 

Kinda like I wonder who else they don't like so I can get someone lynched besides me. It's a tough spot obviously, and I am trying to not let my opinion of new posts be skewed by my vote. But I think casing someone will work more in your favor if you are town. If you get lynched and are town, it at least gives us a better chance at finding the actual scum.

yeah i think this might be the case as well

 

unfortunately

 

i think you get what i'm saying but i dunno

 

I do. I am just trying to get as much info itt as possible. It's hard to see it ever coming from a townie. butI have seen lynches formed with those words prove false. 

It would seem more like a slip than something town would say. doesn't mean its impossible. I was let off because I was new for saying something similar lol. I was scum and I killed the bpv with a day lynch ability :) he was the 1 accusing me haha.

was actually a darthe game i think.

 

Let me save you some time.

 

I don't slip as scum. When I play scum I'm extremely meticulous and I'm careful about what I say.

 

And I've already stated that I've made the same statement as town on more than one occasion, which makes it a null at best.

 

THATS EXACTLY WHAT SCUM WOULD SAY =p

At this point im waiting for others to come in the thread before I take this any farther.

 

I have played with you as scum once, and tbh you were pretty damn obvious, caught you on like your 5th post! though no 1 believed my case... sadface. It was entirely diff though since you didn't com in until page 45 or something. maybe after we get more people in, give me one of those awesome reads lists.

[Eldrick4221]

Yea. Obvious choice.

 

[V]Lizclov [/v]

[seph]

i thought and still do think that darthe's claim was most likely a joke, though not unlikely to be true given the setup

 

we've gone over the omgus, i did say that much

 

i didn't notice it, don't remember it, no opinion on dpr/eldrick/you

 

yes, she is for sure

 

orange followed by blue

Was probably true imo! be careful he might pull a zander and shoot the most pro town player in the game.

For cuth

 

Green is better