[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

[MrsClov]

I get asking questions. anyone can do it, and depending on thread flow a wolf can even lead the direction of the thread. I really stopped trying to town read people over that, and focus on the opinions they are forming.  I am curious about what you all thing about each individual person, and at the moment who you think is a better lynch besides you and liz. Tbh I don't remember anything scummy from you, but you haven't gave me anything protown. If i missed something i apologize and i promise to look out for you in my reread.

 

Fair enough,  but to be honest I haven't been able to give a lot of people thoughts because I've felt like Liz and I have had to defend ourselves over really stupid and trivial stuff that should have never been a thing. 

 

Cass and Eldrick seem fairly town to me at the moment. Cass seems like she's really trying to figure people out, and Eldrick seems to be playing a subdued but similar way to how I saw him as town in our last game together. We spent a lot of time going back and forth with each other that game, and so far I'm getting the vibe that he's trying to reason and hear everyone out. Nothing concrete, but It's what I got so far.

 

If Hallia posts more I'll be able to get a read on her fairly easily, I think. She's probably the person I've played the most with. So far she hasn't done enough for me to feel anything one way or another. 

 

Darthe, as I said earlier I think that he just does things for his own amusement. I think this is my 3rd? game with him and I have no clue how to read him.  

 

I've never played with DPR, Sooh, Kronos, Cuth, you, Tinker, Spoof, or Crusher so it's going to take me a bit to develop there. I can't remember if I've played with Notbob or not, but I'll go ahead and apply this same thought line to him. 

 

[Cuth]

not avoiding, redirecting

[Lizabeth]

 

 

i get that you're trying to create interaction

 

and i'm fine with that and that's great, really it is

 

but i'm not fine with your reactions to any pressure on you

 

if you know you're not scum then you should never start asking "who would my partners be?"

 

that makes no sense as a question that town asks

Read what I wrote above.

 

And I hate when people make statmements like "that makes no sense as a question that town asks"

 

Just because you don't understand the reason for the question doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose.

 

no legitimately

 

if you are town

 

you know you're town, yes?

 

therefore that question does not make sense to ask

 

because you'd know the assumption behind it is fundamentally flawed

 

you know you would flip town if you got lynched, so why are you saying people should 'look at potential partners' so that the game is more winnable from d2 on?

 

you know you'd going to flip town

 

you know you wouldn't have any partners and so anything said about partners and you would be totally invalid after you flip town

 

you've pretty much convinced me that that was a legitimate slip

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, so let's play a game of pretend.

 

Let's pretend MrsClov and I are scum.

 

Who are our partners?

Idk its d1, surely one wolf is enough atm. This is a distraction post.

 

Oh really? You're not interested in information that might help solve the game on D2 and so on?

 

Attempt to turn this denied. Go die now.

 

Darthe - you're not afraid of some simple questions are you? Why do you keep avoiding them?

 

Answering my questions can only make you look townier if you're town.

 

So not true. Eye of the beholder.

 

Town can answer a question and still be scum read for it. Scum and answer a question and get cleared for it.

 

This is true. But do you really think that Darthe is afraid of that?

 

I'm trying to get him to stop avoiding the questions. Sometimes shame is what's required.

[Lizabeth]

not avoiding, redirecting

That's the same thing.

 

If I were avoiding responding to what people's concerns were, you'd have a valid argument.

 

I'm responding and then questioning, but any questioning I do you define as "turning attention away", so basically it's a damned if I do damned if I don't corner that you're putting me in.

 

Which is exactly what you're doing by still not answering my damn questions.

 

I'm not saying that you're scum for it, but I'm saying you're being hypocritical.

[Cuth]

 

not avoiding, redirecting

That's the same thing.

 

If I were avoiding responding to what people's concerns were, you'd have a valid argument.

 

I'm responding and then questioning, but any questioning I do you define as "turning attention away", so basically it's a damned if I do damned if I don't corner that you're putting me in.

 

Which is exactly what you're doing by still not answering my damn questions.

 

I'm not saying that you're scum for it, but I'm saying you're being hypocritical.

 

what questions have i not answered

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

@Casstastic - what are your thoughts on the diceter at the moment?

Trying to get an early handle on him. Can see his jump at you guys coming from either alignment; initial comment wrt Darthe felt possi-sheepy/shade; wondering/waiting for his response about the Tonto thing.

 

 

Spoof answered the questions. Crusher avoided them. Someone else commented on that they should be included, but didn't answer them.

IIRC Crusher answered on a similar level.

Cuth commented on being excluded, didn't need to reply to the questions I initially posted imo.

I don't see why not. Your reason for asking includes him AFAICT.

? Can you elaborate?

My reason for asking was because I've never played with them, it had nothing to do with Cuth.

I wasn't aware that you were familiar with Cuth. They are all 3 new to me, and so I thought they should all 3 answer. That you didn't think Cuth should be included was weird.

 

I'm pretty sure I'd explained before you made the Spoof/Crusher/Someone (Cuth) comment.

 

Why weird if you're reading me Town?

 

What was your point/alignment thoughts about the 3 in your post? Do you have a problem with any of it now?

You clearly did explain that you knew him before. You were the one that invited him. I had just simply forgotten that. I tend to not remember who knows who. So as far as I knew you didn't know him.

 

Weird doesn't equal scum. Town read doesn't equal lock townot. This question is bad.

 

I'm getting a slight scum vibe from Cuth. Can't put why into words right now. Other 2 are still null.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

not avoiding, redirecting

That's the same thing.

 

If I were avoiding responding to what people's concerns were, you'd have a valid argument.

 

I'm responding and then questioning, but any questioning I do you define as "turning attention away", so basically it's a damned if I do damned if I don't corner that you're putting me in.

 

Which is exactly what you're doing by still not answering my damn questions.

 

I'm not saying that you're scum for it, but I'm saying you're being hypocritical.

 

what questions have i not answered

 

Are you serious right now? I even reposted them for you. Someone (I think Seph) even complained about me cutting out the OMGUS part from my question about Dice and I had to explain that I took it out because you'd already answered that part.

[Lizabeth]

Cuth, what are your current thoughts on Darthe and why?

[Cuth]

you know

 

you just essentially claimed scum

 

you slipped

 

there's no possible way you can ever say what you said as town

 

and i'm sorry if saying that bothers you

 

but townies know that they're town and never say "who are my partners" so that "town can have a better chance after today" 

 

that is not a thing that a town would ever do

 

because town is exactly town and knows that they are town

 

and so they know thinking about who might be teamed with them today so that those people can be lynched in the future makes no sense because they are town

 

perspective, you know

[Lizabeth]

And I need to go to bed soon...but I'll stay up a little while longer for this.

[Cuth]

 

 

 

not avoiding, redirecting

That's the same thing.

 

If I were avoiding responding to what people's concerns were, you'd have a valid argument.

 

I'm responding and then questioning, but any questioning I do you define as "turning attention away", so basically it's a damned if I do damned if I don't corner that you're putting me in.

 

Which is exactly what you're doing by still not answering my damn questions.

 

I'm not saying that you're scum for it, but I'm saying you're being hypocritical.

 

what questions have i not answered

 

Are you serious right now? I even reposted them for you. Someone (I think Seph) even complained about me cutting out the OMGUS part from my question about Dice and I had to explain that I took it out because you'd already answered that part.

 

i didn't catch them, then

 

which post number was that?

[Lizabeth]

you know

 

you just essentially claimed scum

 

you slipped

 

there's no possible way you can ever say what you said as town

 

and i'm sorry if saying that bothers you

 

but townies know that they're town and never say "who are my partners" so that "town can have a better chance after today" 

 

that is not a thing that a town would ever do

 

because town is exactly town and knows that they are town

 

and so they know thinking about who might be teamed with them today so that those people can be lynched in the future makes no sense because they are town

 

perspective, you know

Oh really?

 

Because I've said it multiple times before as town. And I've seen others say it multiple times before as town. So maybe your rule book doesn't apply to me?

 

And why can't you just respond to my questions?

[Cuth]

Cuth, what are your current thoughts on Darthe and why?

ambivalent

 

he has a 75% or so chance of being town

 

i haven't noticed any astonishing tells either way

 

how about you?

[seph]

trying to re read/ play wow lol. I am still here but might take me a min to reply to anything current.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

 

 

not avoiding, redirecting

That's the same thing.

 

If I were avoiding responding to what people's concerns were, you'd have a valid argument.

 

I'm responding and then questioning, but any questioning I do you define as "turning attention away", so basically it's a damned if I do damned if I don't corner that you're putting me in.

 

Which is exactly what you're doing by still not answering my damn questions.

 

I'm not saying that you're scum for it, but I'm saying you're being hypocritical.

 

what questions have i not answered

 

Are you serious right now? I even reposted them for you. Someone (I think Seph) even complained about me cutting out the OMGUS part from my question about Dice and I had to explain that I took it out because you'd already answered that part.

 

i didn't catch them, then

 

which post number was that?

 

*almost swore...quick self edit!*

 

You have quoted multiple quote with that quote inside them. You even responded to one of the questions. I'm having a really hard time believing that you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

ISO me and find it.

[Cuth]

 

you know

 

you just essentially claimed scum

 

you slipped

 

there's no possible way you can ever say what you said as town

 

and i'm sorry if saying that bothers you

 

but townies know that they're town and never say "who are my partners" so that "town can have a better chance after today" 

 

that is not a thing that a town would ever do

 

because town is exactly town and knows that they are town

 

and so they know thinking about who might be teamed with them today so that those people can be lynched in the future makes no sense because they are town

 

perspective, you know

Oh really?

 

Because I've said it multiple times before as town. And I've seen others say it multiple times before as town. So maybe your rule book doesn't apply to me?

 

And why can't you just respond to my questions?

 

why have you said it before as town

 

explain to me how that lines up with a town pov

 

refute any of the following points for me

 

1. town knows that they are town

2. therefore, town knows that looking for people they could be partners with is a waste of time because they're not partners with anyone, they're town

3. town knows that if they are lynched they will flip town

4. therefore town knows that exploring potential links for partners with themselves today will not help solve the game in any way because they're town and they don't have partners

 

correct me where i'm wrong in that logic

 

the fact that you aren't observing those points directly leads me to assume that you neglected to think your statement through properly and are scum

 

these are GIVENS for town

 

they are fundamental pillars in the way each townie views the game

[Lizabeth]

 

Cuth, what are your current thoughts on Darthe and why?

ambivalent

 

he has a 75% or so chance of being town

 

i haven't noticed any astonishing tells either way

 

how about you?

 

I'll let you know when he shows up again and finally answers my questions.

 

Right now the best I can say is he's a null.

 

But if you haven't noticed any astonishing tells either way, why is he 75% rather than 50% for you?

[Cuth]

 

 

 

 

 

not avoiding, redirecting

That's the same thing.

 

If I were avoiding responding to what people's concerns were, you'd have a valid argument.

 

I'm responding and then questioning, but any questioning I do you define as "turning attention away", so basically it's a damned if I do damned if I don't corner that you're putting me in.

 

Which is exactly what you're doing by still not answering my damn questions.

 

I'm not saying that you're scum for it, but I'm saying you're being hypocritical.

 

what questions have i not answered

 

Are you serious right now? I even reposted them for you. Someone (I think Seph) even complained about me cutting out the OMGUS part from my question about Dice and I had to explain that I took it out because you'd already answered that part.

 

i didn't catch them, then

 

which post number was that?

 

*almost swore...quick self edit!*

 

You have quoted multiple quote with that quote inside them. You even responded to one of the questions. I'm having a really hard time believing that you don't know what I'm talking about.

 

ISO me and find it.

 

you evidently know which post it was and i do not

 

i have replied to your posts and answered your questions to the best of my knowledge and it's significantly less effort for you to point me to the post than it is for me to comb the whole thread, particularly if i have the impression that i have answered it, which i likely do

 

i can if you genuinely refuse, but if you wouldn't mind i would very much appreciate it because i can't guarantee i'd find it if i tried

[Cuth]

 

 

Cuth, what are your current thoughts on Darthe and why?

ambivalent

 

he has a 75% or so chance of being town

 

i haven't noticed any astonishing tells either way

 

how about you?

 

I'll let you know when he shows up again and finally answers my questions.

 

Right now the best I can say is he's a null.

 

But if you haven't noticed any astonishing tells either way, why is he 75% rather than 50% for you?

 

on average about seventy-five percent of the players in any given game are town

[seph]

 

 

 

its still a contradiction  mrsclov   sher needed to consult on Darthe but not on me.

 

if the darthe one is just being a good hydra what is the one on me?? One second she needs to consult then she doesnt on someone else shortly thereafter?

No,  you're making it a contradiction, most likely because it involves you. It was an "Oh yeah, I'm in a hydra" moment. I didn't know about the vote on you until after the vote was placed and we talked it out. So that's when she mentioned conferring with me on Darthe. We fill the same spot, and that's not something either of us are used to doing. It is just a result of us trying to figure out how to hydra for the first time, but you're making it into something else.

Bold:

So order of hydra events:

 

- Vote Dice

- Discuss Dice vote

- Discuss conferring on Darthe ?

 

Not necessarily just Darthe just hey let's discuss before we vote, but otherwise you are correct. As you can see from our vote, we agreed to keep it on Dice.

 

Either one can answer this but I don't remember seeing it. Why did you all decide to keep your vote on dice after the joke vote? was it just the omgus reason? I don't think liz ever shared her conclusion.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

 

 

 

its still a contradiction mrsclov sher needed to consult on Darthe but not on me.

 

if the darthe one is just being a good hydra what is the one on me?? One second she needs to consult then she doesnt on someone else shortly thereafter?

No, you're making it a contradiction, most likely because it involves you. It was an "Oh yeah, I'm in a hydra" moment. I didn't know about the vote on you until after the vote was placed and we talked it out. So that's when she mentioned conferring with me on Darthe. We fill the same spot, and that's not something either of us are used to doing. It is just a result of us trying to figure out how to hydra for the first time, but you're making it into something else.

this seems aggressive, like you need to put out a fire before you cant handle it.

 

Good to know you two are a hydra though idk if its gonna do anything for you.

Explain how she's being aggressive here?

Nah, it's easy enough for most to see that played last game

I see what you mean. I also see it as legit getting used to hydra. It's an interesting transition.

Eldrick you seem to be staying out of the recent conversations? maybe it's just cass's posts about the early interaction you had with liz that is causing me to be paranoid ><

I'm at work. I'm behind. I've been struggling to catch up recently.

[Lizabeth]

 

 

you know

 

you just essentially claimed scum

 

you slipped

 

there's no possible way you can ever say what you said as town

 

and i'm sorry if saying that bothers you

 

but townies know that they're town and never say "who are my partners" so that "town can have a better chance after today" 

 

that is not a thing that a town would ever do

 

because town is exactly town and knows that they are town

 

and so they know thinking about who might be teamed with them today so that those people can be lynched in the future makes no sense because they are town

 

perspective, you know

Oh really?

 

Because I've said it multiple times before as town. And I've seen others say it multiple times before as town. So maybe your rule book doesn't apply to me?

 

And why can't you just respond to my questions?

 

why have you said it before as town

 

explain to me how that lines up with a town pov

 

refute any of the following points for me

 

1. town knows that they are town

2. therefore, town knows that looking for people they could be partners with is a waste of time because they're not partners with anyone, they're town

3. town knows that if they are lynched they will flip town

4. therefore town knows that exploring potential links for partners with themselves today will not help solve the game in any way because they're town and they don't have partners

 

correct me where i'm wrong in that logic

 

the fact that you aren't observing those points directly leads me to assume that you neglected to think your statement through properly and are scum

 

these are GIVENS for town

 

they are fundamental pillars in the way each townie views the game

 

I already explained to you why I ask this question as town.

 

I know my alignment. You don't. Right now you're supposedly making the assumption that I'm scum. I know this is false. If you're town, you have no way of knowing that it's false other than looking beyond the tunnel and figuring it out for yourself.

 

It accomplishes two potential goals: a) forcing you to look beyond your tunnel if you're town, and b) not allowing you to hide behind a one-person tunnel if you're actually scum.

[seph]

I was just curious because you were popping in and out during the discussions. catch up when you can and give input :)

[Eldrick4221]

eldrick what's your read on lizaclov

I was gonna comment on this when I caught up, but now works too.

 

Liz's asking who her teammates would be doesn't make sense. I agree with you that town saying that would be pointless once they flipped town, and is a possible slip.

 

They do seem to be focusing on trying to get the attention from them.

 

I disagree with Darthe about his read of MrsClov comparing it to last game, as I already mentioned. It reads as getting used to hydra, and is null.

 

I agree that they are a likely scum candidate.

[Cuth]

 

 

 

you know

 

you just essentially claimed scum

 

you slipped

 

there's no possible way you can ever say what you said as town

 

and i'm sorry if saying that bothers you

 

but townies know that they're town and never say "who are my partners" so that "town can have a better chance after today" 

 

that is not a thing that a town would ever do

 

because town is exactly town and knows that they are town

 

and so they know thinking about who might be teamed with them today so that those people can be lynched in the future makes no sense because they are town

 

perspective, you know

Oh really?

 

Because I've said it multiple times before as town. And I've seen others say it multiple times before as town. So maybe your rule book doesn't apply to me?

 

And why can't you just respond to my questions?

 

why have you said it before as town

 

explain to me how that lines up with a town pov

 

refute any of the following points for me

 

1. town knows that they are town

2. therefore, town knows that looking for people they could be partners with is a waste of time because they're not partners with anyone, they're town

3. town knows that if they are lynched they will flip town

4. therefore town knows that exploring potential links for partners with themselves today will not help solve the game in any way because they're town and they don't have partners

 

correct me where i'm wrong in that logic

 

the fact that you aren't observing those points directly leads me to assume that you neglected to think your statement through properly and are scum

 

these are GIVENS for town

 

they are fundamental pillars in the way each townie views the game

 

I already explained to you why I ask this question as town.

 

I know my alignment. You don't. Right now you're supposedly making the assumption that I'm scum. I know this is false. If you're town, you have no way of knowing that it's false other than looking beyond the tunnel and figuring it out for yourself.

 

It accomplishes two potential goals: a) forcing you to look beyond your tunnel if you're town, and b) not allowing you to hide behind a one-person tunnel if you're actually scum.

 

yes and you said to help town after d2

 

but you know it won't help because you're town

 

i'm trying to engage you on a logical level and show you why i can't see town ever making such a statement

 

and seeing if you disagree with any of the points on why i believe so

 

because otherwise i'm going to be forced to lynch you