there was another quote where she says "He has to do something but all of you have to be there even the gleeman, the young woman who just arrived stone faced all of you are connected or e will fail and worst than him will fall". I am quoting it from my memory and my memory reminds me of a joke which goes like " I a=have always been proud of two things; first is my memory and for life of me I can't remember what other was. LOL

Thanks suttree, I do enjoy this thread, good posts all round for the most part anyway.

 

 

 

I think this shows that she knows she has no part in the actual sealing of the bore. She knows her job will be to save as many people as she can, and rebuild afterwards.

 

 

 

this is the part I disagree with as we know since first book she is going to be one of the people who are going to be present at the sealing of the bore. There was a MIN's viewing to this effect. As an aside Barid you are such a nice person and I respect you immensely for your niceness and positive outlook but if you are trying to sell me eggy ? I am not buying

Egwene-Hater-In-Chief,

 

you cannot make that claim lightly I'll contest it all the way and mind it. It is not going to be a walk in the park

well thank you for your kind response at least now you are giving me credit for half a brain but seriously I am again asking this question of both sides of divide. Do you think that eggy is a well written character? You might not have noticed but in past few posts I have been trying to demonstrate that eggy did not get the fair treatment at the hand of writers. For example let us take Rand he is the supposed savior of the world and time itself. He always gets help in fact, if we had a voldermot he would have jeered that he hides behind more talented friends and elders. at the tEotW he had te eye dah. In the great hunt he got help from HoH, in the DR Belal was killed by Moiraine. tSR he was helped by Lanfear in trapping of Asmodean. IN LoC he was elped by Perrin, Wiseones and Ashamen and he continues to grow and learn. In eggys arc we do not see the character development she was left in Aiel waste twiddling her thumbs all she did was frown at Rand's supposed mistreatment of Avi. Out of blue she becomes Amyrilin and we have eggy the light incarnate thrust into our face. So my contention." This is not a well written character".

First of all I am making this post because I could not stand the thought of our dear eggy relegated to page 2 as for getting from point a to point b in short time we have been at it for 13 books and well near to twenty years if this is your idea of little time I wonder what you will call a long wind

I think that was one of the Ok scenes involving Eggy but to be honest whenever she gets on screen time I switch of mentally it is physically hard to admit something good about eggy

please Elan read my posts for a change. I have maintained from the first post that egwene is not a very well written character. Please go back and read my first post on the topic I have clearly stated that. I do not blame her for anything she merely does what she is told to do.

come on guys chill out we are all on the side of light here aren't we? well, at least I hope. lol and i thought it was fear tat was the path to the dark side of the force?

no you just need to be blue eyed girl of the writer and you do not have to make any sense.

she could be thirteen thirteened but that is just going to hand us lot more ammunition as to how incompetent she really is and even I do not want that lol

Elan come on man even I am not that focused on Egwene hate. Mowbray raised some pretty neat points there and you have to grant it. I ave personally strongly disliked ok hated his story arc since LoC but that is why I hated Faile so much. She had destroyed a perfectly good character. I also have to agree wit the characterization aspect. It has been one of the main strengths of the books. On thhe whole a good post.

OK continuing the discussion here is what I think going to happen at FoM. Right when we are just about to have the big show down Between DR and the Amyrilin. someone is going to bring in the news that Andor is under attack. As soon as they are going to gather to go to Andor. Another mesage is going to come in that WT is under attack from Seanchan. Now question is and I am asking this question of both sides of divide. What will egwene do? Will she go and defend people from Trolloc cook pots or she will rush back to defend her precious WT. Screaming Preciousssss my precioussss.

 

AS Bey Bladers called it LET IT RIP

Ok, I guess it is a fair point but what you re not realizing is that what you take as a given is your own view point and others might interpret differently. For instance somewhere I asked a question that when she agreed to talk about it and you gane me a quote from ToM now you see it as a promise that they will talk but I take it into wider context with all the other things being said and done by all the characters. Including those closing scenes with Gawyn where she makes the typical spiel that Rand wants her to stop him "you know my memory lol" but it was just after her arrival at FoM. I mean if you take them together to me it seems more like a threat rather than a promise to talk. Similarly, there was that argument about WT being the only force on the side of light that is not ready to face the TG again most of you countered it with WT being ready for 3000 years but if you take a look, their preparation was exposed by Seanchan attack and how noneffective they were against it. Again you chose to completely ignore that main thrust of my argument that all the main forces of light that eggy was gathering were already geared up for TG and i have alredy mentioned it above. gtg to office and I will continue it another time.

OK Suttree and all of you people who support Egwene here is the deal. Before I get on with the main post there is a little aside never said that Egwene is not going to fight on the side of light . In fact if you go back and take a look. I have posted somewhere that she is going to be integral to the win at TG. In fact, i have maintained throughout that none of Rand's harem is going to be there at final strike at SG. Its going to be the original Fellowship that left from two rivers who are going to do it. Anyways getting back to the main reason for posting. I mean let me clear one more thing I really like and respect suttree. When I am addressing suttree I am usually talking to the whole bunch. So, its nothing personal. Here is the deal. you see that I have started getting on your nerves let me recant that I have started irritating you. You do not know me, you have no idea what kind of person I am or who I am but you still feel irritated by my comments. In reality I should not matter to you but it does not happen that way. You feel honor bound to defend Eggy the bitch "I am not that reasonable that i am going to take that back". Maybe out of loyalty to RJ or for any number of reasons. Why not you people credit the fact that we find her an insult to our intelligence. I mean I have already said it a million times that i love RJ's writing. I think that he is the best fantasy writer since Tolkien but Egwene is a very poorly written character. In order to enjoy fantasy, you have to have a suspension of disbelief. For me what makes these books so much fun is that I do not need suspension of disbelief as much as with other books. I can enjoy the story almost as if it is not a fantasy. It is one of the main reasons that these books readership transcends genres. I know a lot of Wot fans who do not read fantasy normally and they just love wot. Egwene's story arc depends entirely on suspension of disbelief. You have to take things simply because they are for no rational reason, unlike rest of the story. It means that as soon as eggy comes on screen I mentally switch off. I know that you are going to say that is not completely rational but you people getting irritated on my comments on eggy. Well, I won't comment on that. So, you will be wondering what is the purpose of the long wind? One very simple thing you are irritated by me and I do not object on it, you are perfectly within your right t do that. Then why am I not allowed t be irritated by eggy?

Suttree my man I have high hopes for you. I mean that no one have lived in the shadow of Egwene love long enough to not be able to come back in light. As usual you managed to answer all the things that I did not ask. I mean, I was asking that all the forces of light were already working towards TG except WT and there is a lot of textual evidence to support that and you give me a long wind about how everyone agrees on something that no one agrees to. I mean that they think that it is going to be more balanced, can you imagine that someone going from LA to live in a village from a third world country say in sub Saharan Africa will find it attractive to live there and enjoy it more than they do living in LA. Similarly, if someone from a third world country like say Somalia gets a chance to go live in LA will like to go back to his shack in Somalia? My answer to that question us no. Proof is that you can go and look at the immigration stats. lot more people migrate into the U.S.A than out of it. She is depending on something similar. I t is beautifully written by BS as there is a line in there where she suggests that they go back to there people after they are done with there training and can return if they want to and no one will stop them. In fact we all know that both BS and RJ borrow from both history and myths and there are lots of examples of similar exchange programs in history where powerful governments set up exchange programs with weaker governments or ones they have subjugated. Resulting in the weaker nations being subverted by the rulers who were trained by the ruling elite. If you care you can take a look at the history of Imperial Britain and Tzarist Russia as a convenient example.

Which side is she serving as for that they are going to serve at TG. Well, Darlin had his orders from Rand that he has to prepare for TG I do not remember the book but it was after he came back from Arad Doman, Elayne was alreauy focused on TG, Perrin's force was already focused. If anything, only force that was Not focused on TG was Egwene's WT. Again typical behavior, very quotes you make show her to be power hungry and mad with lust for more power. For example, exchange program is nothing more than her attempt to bring all the channelers under the influence of Wt it has already been discussed to death when she says I'll bind you with lace. Again FoM is an attempt to break rulers away from Rand and attach them to herself. You people have even endorsed her taking personal oaths of fealty from those sisters holding Lan when she condemns Elaida for contemplating them. I mean why Rand gas to listen to every one with two penny but she must have absolute power over Hall whose very purpose is to balance the power of Amyrilin. Again if you care to read what I had written, I said without meaning to authors have written her like that.

Come on people you are smart people I have seen the evidence on other post. This is a favorite trick of Egwene lovers they are going to degenerate the debate into a tiny hole and than everyone is going to be talking about that and forgetting the big picture. We do not hate Eggy because she is going to oppose Rand at FoM. I think that time has come to wrap up this debate. I think that without meaning to authors have managed to show her as a power hungry, self centered and stupid little bitch. there are countless examples and incidents that prove this if you do not believe it more power to you as for Elan's post. He had to go through that phase of dark Rand to emerge on the other side there are lots of foreshadowing to this effect with wolves, prophecies and fore tellings.

Ok where did she say that she is going to listen to what Rand has to say? I did not read it in any of the books so please enlighten my poor soul and give me the quote.

see I again wonder if we are all reading the same books. One of the main reason people have always hated Egwene is due to her sweeping statements and how often she backs out of it. I can tell innumerable incidents where she said something and than backed out at a later stage. This is looking more and more like one more incident where she will have to eat her words. I maintain that we hate Egwene is one of the reasons we love this series. Haven't you ever known a person who is a good person basically, he or she will help those who needs help but you just can't stand being near that person. It has happened to me. As for Rand I vowed that I am not going to comment on people who are going to compare Rand with Egwene. I do not know how many of you are married but whenever me and my wife are fighting and she does not have anything to say she is going to start on something totally different that had no bearing on the reason we were fighting for. You people are doing something similar. I think Cadusane says it to borderlanders "If you put a burden of an entire age on a man and then something about knocking down the wall when reconstructing" Again If someone is kind enough to give the exact quote. I am asking this question of all of you and if you have any guts please do answer do any of you SERIOUSLY think that Egwene has faced or done even anything remotely close to what Rand had to face and do?

I mean what has LTT or Lpd has got to do with hating Egwene? since, we are on it I am not going to bother with starting another post. What nobody stops to think is that maybe things had to happen like that. In that meeting with borderlanders I thinl BS answered these questions when Tenobia mentioned that how difficult it was for them to find him. I mean in that very scene Rand tells them that only few days ago he would not have known the answer. if someone can make the exact quote that will be very kind. Point I am trying to make here i that most repeated line in the series is "Whwwl weaves as wheel wills". Again Perrin says it to Galad, "You were here apparently because I need you". What the stupid woman should realize that if the wheel wanted someone to oppose Rand. Elaida would have been much better choice. She is there so that she can see past the Dragon Reborn and see Rand. the sheepherder that she can trust but no she has to be the bloody white tower with light shining out of her every mention-able and unmentionable orifice. I have written a very long post somewhere saying that we hate her because she is not very well written. I still stand by my opinion.

I doubt that Rand needs any help from Egwene in the entire process of actually resealing the DO by clearing away the seals..so not sure why he should explain any better?

 

I believe he will discuss the actual fighting of the armies of the dark at FoM with Egwene and the others but that is separate issue from the seals. Atleast according to Rand PoV in TOM's epilogue,there is no negotiation nor is he going to talk to Egwene about the seals in FOM.

I doubt that Rand needs any help from Egwene in the entire process of actually resealing the DO by clearing away the seals..so not sure why he should explain any better?

 

I believe he will discuss the actual fighting of the armies of the dark at FoM with Egwene and the others but that is separate issue from the seals. Atleast according to Rand PoV in TOM's epilogue,there is no negotiation nor is he going to talk to Egwene about the seals in FOM.

If by now you do not know that i am a solid egwene hater than what can I say but there was a foretelling right at the beginning or may be it was a viewing by Min that said all of you have to be there or he will fail and all included All the people who left Emond's field that means he is going to need Egwene at TG. What i cannot remember is whether Loial was part of that foertelling or not.

again where Perrin meets with Thom and Mat and they advice him to sleep in different pace every night. he replies," why not leave a few Aiels as a surprise who are ready." at replies, " Perrin my friend that is outright devious, you have changed for better"

Right after Elayne ask Avi if Rand was ok.

 

"He is well. I will chop off his ears if anything happens to him."

 

 

Fish

 

That i do not remember where was it?

thank you for two things first is quote and again I cannot quite place it but there was a discussion in that book or a previous one where they were discussing seals and how to seal the DO where Fel mention something about hole and patch again I am quoting it from memory and actual quote will be appreciated. " we are talking about the hole that was drilled in the third age. it means that when wheel turns and comes back to the third age it has to be whole again so that hole can be drilled. unless of course the creator made the prison with a hole and a patch" there was more to it but that was the basic gist of it. next time Rand goes to meet him he receives that note. I know that evidence is circumstantial but it is still better than off screen preparations. As for Avi's vision being a possible future. Well again I am quoting from memory but there was something like that she mentions that it was not like the rings that apprentices pass in their testing and see possible futures. I do not seem to remember but it was bair or amys that mentions that you forget most of it after you have passed through the rings and Avi specifically mentions that this sensation, feeling or whatever is completely different from one she had when she passed through the rings. There is again a bit of foreshadowing as when she came out Rhuidean she absolutely hated Rand. I know she said that is because of her treatment of Elayne but we know that is not true. Second time I need to thanks Suttree because he did raise the doubt in my mind that this could be a possible future. I had always wished that it does not happen but I guess that should be discussed in a separate thread. As for Elan's question and comment about hussies well i guess I have answered above they are the only two people who know that answer is there so I guess he has to depend on that piece of you know what to get the answer.

In fact, take a look and remember that Rand is king of Illian and even Darlin never said that he is going to oppose Rand. Again i am quoting from memory but he said that he was disturbed by the news and he was worried about Seanchan he never committed that he is going to oppose Rand. I am sure that if someone explains the whole situation to Mr Obama he is going to be very impressed with his power.