(Spoilers for the last two books follow.)

 

 

I would ask for one of three changes:

 

(1)  I would want greater reassurance that the future of Randland does not go the way of Aviendha's vision -- her vision of a world in which the Seanchan defeat the White Tower, send the Black Tower into hiding, essentially take over the world, and crush the Aiel.  Or at least that it does not have to go that way.  

 

I would like to know that there is at least a decent chance that everything that Rand, Egwene, and so many others have worked to build does not eventually get either destroyed or assimilated into the Seanchan empire.  Perhaps that chance is already there, but I got a real sense of inevitability from Aviendha's vision, which was reinforced by certain other events (such as the loss of Egwene's leadership for the White Tower).  I don't want a "happily ever after" ending, but I just want an ending that is somewhat less bleak than Aviendha's vision.

 

or 

 

(2)  I would want to change the ending so that Rand kills the Dark One, breaks the Wheel from its circular motion, and sets a new course of history which is linear rather than circular.  Or at least provide a better rationalization for why he does not kill the Dark One.  The reason given just didn't work for me.

 

or 

 

(3) Re-write the last battle to fix various problems, such as the fact that everyone talks about how great a general Mat is, but we see very little evidence of this in the tactics that he uses, or in the results that he obtains.

I agree, we hear all throughout the books from Moiraine and Rand about wards that could kill shadowspawn, add in the red razor wire filaments set in the air to slice a man apart, and many other nasty things and you could have had the channelers set nasty surprises around the Field of Merrilor, but we saw nothing.  Not to mention we sort of missed seeing blossoms of fire and the red flickering laser-like filaments bursting from the ends of Rand's fingers that allow a handful of channelers at Algarin's manor kill a hundred thousand trollocs, yet we see frail Aes Sedai with weak abilities and it just seemed that Brandon and RJ downplayed the channelers to make them the equal of regular soldiers and kept them under the thumb of the shadow's forces, always beaten back despite the tower forces being far larger than the Sharan channelers.  The Greens did not reveal any awesome weaves or abilities or even a victory of any kind that I can recall.  There were just so many missed opportunities.   

There might be a sentence and some hints in the notes but it is fairly obvious as to what will happen.  Mat and Tuon return to Seanchan.  Probably they travel there with their Deathwatch Guards and a huge army gathered from their holdings with just enough crack Seanchan troops to stiffen them up, done in this way much as Alexander the Great did so that soldiers returning to Seanchan with hidden loyalties won't be so much of a factor.  And we can't forget the masses of Wise Ones paired with Suldam and voila, you have a massive force that can take the Crystal throne and the Imperial Palace easier than sneezing, the entire city of Seandar without much effort.  The people rejoice that Tuon is alive, others send assassins.  Galgon gains more respect for Mat, maybe even gives his life saving him from an assassin as not everyone among the Blood is happy to have the Empress home with an Heir and a Prince of the Ravens.  The immersion into the Seanchan culture, the new cities and lands to explore, people and places, the red-sail ships, the murderer that rules in Seandar, an explanation on the source of the Bloodring Ter'angreal would be fun for a writer to explore, there are tidbits scattered all over the books.  

Just because there is one sentence detailing Mat dicing in an alley as the actual start to the book...well, RJ liked to use the term "intuitively obvious" and there are many things that obviously would be in the book.  The problem is, you are looking at someone needing to take a map of Seanchan and the few pages of remarks made by the Seanchan characters and produce over 95% of the new characters and storyline.  It is too big a project, which would require too much of Harriett and Team Jordan's time, and probably is nowhere near financially feasible as everyone needs to get paid and the book might only draw a small numbers of fresh readers into the series and some from the fanbase who haven't cut all ties in regards to new material.

it is fun to think about and to ponder, but that is about all that is going to happen, unless the tangled mass of kinks get worked out and the movie(s) gets done which will kickstart a fresh infusion into the fanbase, and then a demand for new and fresh material will require some reevaluation on the unwritten prequels and outriggers.  I would have loads of respect for Harriett at that point if she still declined if it was ever an option again.  I would just be happy with the WOT getting the attention it finally deserves from the mass media. 

BS pretty much said in the River of Souls prologue that it was the last WOT story.  RJ simply didn't leave enough to work with even BS and Harriet wanted to write about it.  From some of the things BS has said it didn't sound like even had RJ left enough to consider writing the series that he was really interested in starting another WOT project.

There were contracts in place both for his Seanchan/shipwrecked sailor/shogun series, encyclopedia, and one or two others which were all renegotiated into the contract for the upcoming companion so as not to financially ruin Harriet.  Contracts worth more than their house iirc that were not yet fulfilled but had been paid out.  Being a writer with no other income except maybe a stipend from his Vietnam service...bills are bad enough, so add in all the medical bills...he had a lot of promised works forthcoming.  The ideas were there, enough bones to flesh out for someone wanting the project.  BS had his minor career launched and has his own books to write.  This is where a ghost writer would have come in handy should the decision have been made to do the outriggers and prequels. 

Remember people, statements like these: 

 

'The quality already dropped towards the end and the last thing the WoT legacy needs is to turn into some shoddy "shared world" scenario.'

 

'Lastly just because RJ had a planned slowdown that became bloated during the mid-late part of the series, does not in anyway excuse the large amounts of bloat and filler BS had during the climax.'

 

 

 

Are opinions, so to pass them off as fact is... wrong. 

 

As for the thread topic, one sentence just isn't enough for a whole book to spring out of. I, for one, loved the last three books of the series and thought them a fitting conclusion, even if I have some criticisms about a lack of utilization where Perrin is concerned. But even if there were fairly fleshed out plans for outrigger novels, I would support the wished of our beloved RJ and if he doesn't want other people playing in his sandbox, that is his business.

 

Though I do agree with Suttree on one point. Shared world/universes written by many authors do have quality issues. Ex: Star Wars. 

This is probably the best solution.  After all, the fans know that the outriggers were planned, and we can enjoy thinking to ourselves what adventures Mat and Tuon, Perrin and Faile would have, as well as cobble the bits and pieces together about Tam's adventures when he left the Two Rivers to entertain ourselves with when we think fondly back on the series.  Having it actually written will rob us of our own versions of possibility.  

 

Exactly, I doubt when anyone read "He will be of the ancient blood" thought Aiel before it happened not even sure after he was born if any of the Aes Sedai knew for sure it was an Aiel woman who gave birth to the Dragon.  Moraine even commented there were many places the old blood still run strong, the two rivers being so far from any place was probably an after thought to look.  I must say I still find it odd a woman 9 month pregnant is in any condition to be fighting in a battle.  Most by the stage struggle just to get out of bed let alone running into a fight.

She wasn't fit to fight, but she convinced Rand's father to allow her to.

 

But I doubt she did much fighting.  She was there because she knew she had to give birth to Rand on the mountain. 

 

You have to remember that this wasn't just one battle, it was many spread across a significant period of time.  Armies have smiths and camp followers who bear children along the way in these settings.

 

worst by far though is the cover for WH, which completely ruined my veiw of perrin.

 

 

...oh and perrin... which yeah kinda ruins it.

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Yep, I agree. Plus the KoD version of Perrin also.

 

In fact, I was very seriously considering using a Sharpie to remove Perrin's mug from my paperback covers, they are that bad.

 

When reading WoT now, I just generally picture Perrin's look as a rough combination of Chris Hemsworth's Thor and Huntsman.

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But my least favorite US cover has got to be LOC.

 

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But..........that 2nd gen cell phone that Rand is wearing on his belt from AoL is pretty boss. 

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Once all the trade paperbacks come out with the ebook covers, I'm rebuying all the books. Those covers are great and most of my older mass market paperbacks are in pretty rough shape anyways.

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It looks like this is the way that I will be going soon, as my less than 2 year paperbacks are starting to wear out, mostly due to some of the page printing being so close to the damn binding, that the binding on some of them is starting break. 

 

 

Also, regarding Sweets covers, what's with the weird horse saddles that he creates? Do any exist like that at all in the real world? And if they do, are they for punishment or some form of torture for the poor riders? At my first glance of Winter's Heart, I was wondering why Perrin was the ONLY one walking. But after looking at his saddle, I can see why. Also, the look on his face is like he is out for an afternoon stroll. Not a care in the world.  LOL

 

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It's not a cell phone, it's a Ter'angreal!

I have all the audio books on my ipod and listen to them all the time.

They use the pronunciations as outlined by RJ/Team Jordan.

 

A couple that stood out to me that I was completely wrong about were Semirhage, Taim, Cairhien, Gawyn and Siuan

Semirhage, I used to say Semir-hage, it's Semir-hog

Taim, I said Tame, it's TA-eem.

Cairhien, used to say Car-hane, it's Car-re-en

Gawyn, used to say Gwane, supposed to be Gow-when

Siuan, used to say Sue-ann, it's Sswan

For the most part they do.  In some of the earlier books they can't pronounce the name the same way between Michael and Kate.  Later books they amend the pronunciation to the correct way.

I actually kept a list of quotes as i was reading. I wont put them all here because I don't feel like rewriting the entire series.

 

Had Nynaeve and Elayne been cavorting with Jaichim Carridin and Elaida in the fountain beneath that statue of some long dead queen two spans or more tall and pointing to the sea, he would have passed it without a second look.

-Mat Cauthon, A Crown of Swords, Chapter 17: The Triumph of Logic

 

In his experience, old memories or new, there are only two times a woman admitted she was wrong: when she wanted something and when it snowed at midsummer.

-Mat Cauthon, A Crown of Swords, Chapter 38: Six Stories

 

 

Weep for Manetheren. Weep for what is lost forever.

-Moiraine Damodred, The Eye of the World, Chapter 9: Tellings of the Wheel

 

 

I'm only an old gleeman. Who could I possibly be dangerous to?

-Thom Merrilin, The Great Hunt, Chapter 34: The Wheel Weaves

 

Play 'March of Death'. Play it, unless you know a sadder song. Play something to make your soul weep. If you have one still.

-Rand al'Thor, to Asmodean, The Fires of Heaven, Chapter 42: Before the Arrow

 

You have made a place in my heart where I thought there was no room for anything else. You have made flowers grow where I cultivated dust and stones. Remember this, on this journey you insist on making. If you die, I will not survive you long.

-Lan Mandragoran, to Nynaeve al'Meara, The Shadow Rising, Chapter 16: Leavetakings

 

Just a few, chosen at random.

And all very good, especially the one from Lan.

Nynaeve was mentionable but it was hard for the three guys to think of her in that way, as first and foremost she was their Wisdom.  It was easier for Egwene I think to mention, especially when she changed from wearing her good stout Two Rivers woolens to the the clingy silk dresses.  Egwene realizes that while she still pinches pennies, Nynaeve still spends too much on clothing or doesn't complain as much as she used to when it came to the dresses and liked the excuse that they were wearing local fashion to blend in.  I think this was the POV right before Floran Gelb and company tries to abduct them.

Graendal I believe was described as plump or fleshy or some such.

After rereading the series yet AGAIN, I withdraw my previous statement about Graendal.  According to the Forsakens' POV, she doesn't hold a candle to Lanfear when they are all gathered together.  Lanfear at least is team Shadow's most beautiful candidate with her white dress and silver jewelry she is always wearing.

I read both series as they came out and never once thought that they were similar.  Goodkind's to me was exciting at first then sucked because every book it was Kahlan or Richard being taken away and the same struggle to reunite.  The magic system was different, and I just have to say, RJ's Graendal had nothing on those Mord-Sith with their red leather and whips.

It wasn't until after I began visiting DM for about a year before I saw the accusations and was like...???  Of course looking and comparing I could see what people were saying.  Then again we have RJ who spoofed and rewrote Tollkien making Ogers nice well spoken giants and was open about it from the beginning.  It was never supposed to be as popular as it became, it was just a stepping stone to him for his Shogun-esque books he wanted to do in the Seanchan/Japan setting from his visits to the Orient.  Remember, RJ had come off the whole Conan writing and the brother loving half-sister whatever of Fallon trilogy books which was akin to John Jakes but much better written, I never knew RJ was Regan O'Neil which made it quite interesting after I got halfway through WOT and was like...oh, that's cool.  I'd wondered why there wasn't any more Fallon books.

I always thought the pipe lighting power came because of his fight with the DO. He wove that posible future, so in essance he was the creator for that age in that it played out according to his vision of it. Dont know why he wasnt able to channel always thought it a thing of the soul whether you could channel or not might be the body burnt itself out in the LB.

I always thought the pipe lighting power came because of his fight with the DO. He wove that posible future, so in essance he was the creator for that age in that it played out according to his vision of it. Dont know why he wasnt able to channel always thought it a thing of the soul whether you could channel or not might be the body burnt itself out in the LB.

Sort of like the post above, it was more of an ability with his T'A'R abilities and then weaving the threads of creation itself.  My question is why the DO was able to weave the threads of creation in the first place.  Rand wasn't supposed to be able to and struggled with it, but the DO?  His visions were as tainted as the too-pure visions Rand had.

Yeah Goodkind took Rj ideas, the big difference was Goodkind made his series much more adult.

A publisher would not publish both if that was the case.  Both are different enough in their own regard to be unique.  BOTH RJ and Goodkind used classical themes seen in many others works.  RJ basically rewrote LOTR because he didn't agree that some simple country person would follow some wise old wizard that came along and tapped him on the shoulder and said "You are the one.  You must go forth and save the world."  He just "borrowed" heavily from mythology, religion, and oral history in which to do it.  Don't believe me?  Every earlier audiobook where he does his interview on it states as much from his own mouth.

However, it was most hilarious that Robert Jordan was named as copyright holder in one of the first printings of Goodkind's books which TOR promptly recalled.  If you are lucky enough to own one, they went for around $300 a few years ago last I saw one on Ebay.  And we never really know...maybe RJ had both ideas he pitched to TOR and TOR bought both and hired Goodkind to finish developing and write it.  After all, RJ's entire story basis is an unending story that repeats itself in variation after variation.  But I've seen enough RJ and Goodkind used in other single works and series of Fantasy, Scifi, etc.  Authors borrow, authors use common themes, authors write in other authors to pay homage or some phrase or saying that fans pick up on and know it is a "nod" to another.  Some can write concurrently and have similar ideas or expressions but just because two authors share women and men holding power that might use a collar in their magic system, but if you want to look at things from that perspective...RJ ripped off Lucas and Star Wars with his "Source" for the Force, changing it slightly by dividing it into half for the men and women.  While that probably isn't true, he'd be pissed nonetheless for the comparison.

What we do know is that companies in the end are out to maximize profit, and there was bad blood between RJ and Goodkind, and lastly, we don't have all the facts. 

RJ would have said that this is another thing that is intuitively obvious.  Thankfully, judging from the poll, in this instance he was correct!  Just as the Dark One had Shadar Haran, and with the subtle "balance" theme in RJ's world, everything must have an equal opposite, therefore Nakomi, having had no background or point of view, was an avatar of the Creator much as there were two voices that Rand and the Forsaken heard.  Without Nakomi's influence, Avhienda would not have gone through the columns again to see the visions of the future, which would not have forced changes regarding the Seafolk, which would have cost them the Last Battle and likely have withheld Mat from taking command.  Butterfly effect, ripples in a pond, so forth...I myself was pleased to see it.  Too many authors I've read in traditional Fantasy/Fiction won't use divine intervention.  I just wonder if Nakomi was RJ's or BS's doing.

Androl was one of my favorite characters. I liked how he took what everyone thought was a weakness and turned it into one of the best weapons/utilities possible

Androl was quite simply an awesome character added into the last books.  A talent with gateways, creating the massive one that spewed the lava from the heart of Dragonmount in my opinion would have broken the Trolloc lines and sent the entire army at Caemlyn to fleeing.  Tea, honey, water from a mountain stream, gotta love it.  Androl as another made into Androl with the mask of mirrors, lol!

Well, in my country the first three volumes of Goodkind's SoT were translated and published before tEoTW (in late 1998). I thought that Goodkind's work is... well,... acceptable, maybe. Then I started reading WoT and although the writing was so much better, I thought that Jordan is stealing from Goodkind. Until I looked at the release dates on the first pages

The result was that I never read SoT after book 3

Didn't you know that there are paperback releases of one of the early books showing Robert Jordan as the copyright holder?  It's very rare and costs a lot because they pulled them.  Btw,  they both use the same publisher which wouldn't handle an author that was suspected of ripping off the books.  I mean, take RJ, he could references Tolkein in his interviews and admits to wanting to write something where the old wise wizard didn't have such an easy time leading some young hero off on a quest.

Brandon clearly struggled with the battles. What happened to remembering all but the Brute weaves of the OP? Wards that would warn of shadow souled trollocs and fades in addition to scouting? Not to mention wards that would kill them. Ribbons set just right to let the charging trollocs tear themselves to pieces on them. Blossoms of fire, thin red laser-like beams from the hand that burn through the trollocs by the thousands. And circles with thousands of new novices was mentioned once but so much was left out. Mat was even dumbed down while Demanadred sang his praises thinking him LTT. Seems too much was forgotten about with battles and the uses of the OP. Grozzo and his mention of using gateways above also crossed my mind.

I remember thinking something was up with him, maybe madness, but of course hindsight being 20/20, you can see what all the small hints are.

Beyond words. Especially when my little brother comes up grinning to me and tells me about having to throw them all away. I did have some luck at Goodwill recently. I found ACoS and Winter's Heart in hardback, first editions, but sadly no signatures. Good thing they were still in my car. At least I have a start at rebuilding now.

I am looking for copies of each book, including New Spring, to keep as collectors items. I would prefer ones that have been signed by RJ, but will take usigned copies as well.

 

I will pay anyone on here for their copies, but if no one would like to sell, I would like to know any sites or stores that have them.

Good luck. Ebay usually, on occasion, has signed 1st Editions for around $250 each. I got a few of them for about $27 each immediately after RJ passed before all the people thought to profit from it. On a sad note, I learned three days ago I lost my entire book collection (around 80 hardbacks and paperbacks of RJ's included) to a thunderstorm that tore the roof off an outbuilding at my parent's place and the lids off the crates they were in. Entirely filled all the crates up with water. Luckily my signed editions are shrink-wrapped against water and dust and kept elsewhere. Nothing like almost a thousand books covered in mold and mildew and still sopping wet. All my favorite authors and all my childhood books I collected. I am pissed beyond words. Good luck though. Try Goodwill. I still fondly remember the day I found two signed hardbacks of RJ's there for $1.99 and a handful of other books in new condition.

I have a question. Can anyone tell me what the references to fighting in the borderlands, particularly mention in Shinar was all about? I've heard it mentioned a few times post TGH in rereads about trouble in Shinar starting and mentions of lords riding against others, but it wasn't in reference to Taim and his stirring up the Saldeans. I've always meant to ask but keep forgetting. The only thing I can think of was maybe men didn't want to believe the Dragon had been reborn, but that seems just a little bit off. I never encountered an obvious reason for it.

Week 5 Question: Will Hurin the Sniffer return in any of the remaining books? Please? We miss him. Could you share some insight as to why you decided not to use him after The Great Hunt?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: He'll turn up again. He hasn't reappeared earlier because the part he had to play was a sidelight to the main story. You should be able to glean some of what he was doing, what effect he and the news he brought was having, from the news that came out of the Borderlands in the books following The Dragon Reborn,though.

So it probably had something to do with Hurin spreading word of the Dragon Reborn. That's news that has seldom been greeted with unalloyed joy. Inspiring some Borderlanders to fight? Quite possible.

That is possible, though I never thought the borderlanders would stoop so low as to fight among themselves when they had the stalwart duty to defend the lands against the blight. If news came the DR had come, I'd be making swords and storing provisions and strengthening my defenses, not getting up to petty squabbling and even fighting others of my kind. Then there is the difference between knowing someday it would come, and actually having it happen on my watch.

I forget the POV, but it was mentioned as "Borderlanders fighting Borderlanders not being a good thing" after mention of the fighting specifically in Shienar.

I have a question. Can anyone tell me what the references to fighting in the borderlands, particularly mention in Shinar was all about? I've heard it mentioned a few times post TGH in rereads about trouble in Shinar starting and mentions of lords riding against others, but it wasn't in reference to Taim and his stirring up the Saldeans. I've always meant to ask but keep forgetting. The only thing I can think of was maybe men didn't want to believe the Dragon had been reborn, but that seems just a little bit off. I never encountered an obvious reason for it.

The sphere represents the cohesive nature of the Aiel, and ji'e'toh is the only thing holding them together. I doubt the shape is particularly significant; the only spherical objects are the planets, the moon, etc. and it's a stretch to apply it to the Earth itself.

 

No, the San'Angrel were huge globes.

 

The Stone is half a sphere (A giant dome).

 

But I guess it could be right, hopefully we'll find out.

I could have sworn that the dream Egwene had was of a crystal sphere held in a hand sticking out of a mountain and of Rand cutting the ropes that held the shards of it together, signifying the destruction of the Chodan Kal to come.