The writers and people in charge of this Not The Wheel of Time TV show should be ashamed of themselves. They took a once in a lifetime opportunity to bring something wonderful to video and destroyed it with Hollywood nonsense. 

I don't know if I can bring myself to watch the last two episodes. My late twenty-something son comes over to watch it with us as he read and loved all the books as well. He's also super disturbed and disappointed in what's happened so far, but he wants to stick it out till the end of season 1. My early-30s daughter hasn't started watching it yet as she wants to see it all at once, but she is hearing from us and many other book fans how bad the show is, so she has trepidations about the experience. My husband, who we've been trying to convince to read the books for at least 15 years, is watching with us. He doesn't like the show at all, but is just watching it with us to be social. He read and loved LOTR and the movies and read and loved the Chronicles of Narnia, so he does enjoy some fantasy. I'm sure he'll never read the books after this, even though we are assuring him they were worlds better. Oh, well. 

I think I am going to bow out of the discussion here. I may be back to react to comments from time to time. Thanks, all, for your indulgence with my opinions and my errors.

7 minutes ago, Ralph said:

 

Was released 19th November, first three episodes at once ?

Right. I can't see when my original reviews were posted since they haven't been posted on imdb and Rotten Tomatoes or they're buried somewhere after the threatening nastygram from Amazon. I suppose it just seems like forever since I am so disappointed in what I've seen. Not too mention senior moments keep creeping in. I always say I'm going to be *really* funny when I'm 80. My brother says I'll be the little old lady with the ear trumpet who doesn't know my own name, lol. Maybe that time has already arrived? I guess it's a good thing I haven't joined the forum to comment any earlier than I did. ?

3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Um, we're done with the Eye before book 2.

I know, I answered this already. I was mistaken, I explained how the mistake happened and I thanked Ralph for pointing it out, as shown below. ? 
 

23 hours ago, Ralph said:

Book 2 def not

 

I think only once in book 1, agreed besides Aiel and Jain

 

I plan to look a bit later to confirm. If you have chapter numbers of where it appears, please send

22 hours ago, csmoptop said:

Ralph, you are right, thanks. EotW is only referenced in dreams in book 1 since it's drained and done at the end of the book. I was starting a larger point that encompassed both books, went back and narrowed it to the Eye specifically, and forgot to remove the book 2 reference. 

Then I posted all the places where EotW is mentioned in book 1 in a very long message, as Ralph asked about that. There were quite a few. Having the ebooks is wonderful, since you can search for things quite easily. I gave away all my hardcovers when we moved several years ago as we had to downsize. That was sad! 

22 hours ago, csmoptop said:

There are quite a few references to the Eye of the World in book 1 in several chapters, before Moiraine tells them they need to go to it. Here they are:
Chapter 14, The Stag and Lion, page 202, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - “Did they tell you the Eye of the World would serve you?"
Ch 15, Strangers and Friends, pg 224, Mat, Rand & Perrin telling Thom about their dreams, Mat to Thom - "He said so many things. Crazy things. All that about Lews Therin Kinslayer, and Artur Hawkwing. And the Eye of the World.” Then Thom tells them - “As big a legend as the Horn of Valere, at least in the Borderlands. Up there, young men go hunting the Eye of the World the way young men from Illian hunt the Horn.” 

Ch 24, Flight Down the Arinelle, pg 335, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - “The Light will not help you, boy, and the Eye of the World will not serve you."

Ch. 25, The Traveling People, pg 356, Raen tells Elyas and Perin about a Far Dareis Mai's dying words - ‘Leafblighter means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One. He means to slay the Great Serpent. Warn the People, Lost One. Sightburner comes. Tell them to stand ready for He Who Comes With the Dawn.  Then Perrin reflects on her words - "The Eye of the World. That had been in his dreams, more than once." 

Ch 27, Shelter from the Storm, pg 385, Ba'alzamon to Perrin in a dream - “The Eye of the World will consume you."

Ch 33, The Dark Awaits, pg 461, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - "The Eye of the World will never serve you."

Ch 42, Remembrance of Dreams, pg 593, a few references. First, Loial to Moiraine, Lan and all the Emonds Fielders about a man who came to Stedding Shangtai - "...he told a curious tale which he said he meant to carry to Tar Valon. He said the Dark One intended to blind the Eye of the World, and slay the Great Serpent, kill time itself." And then Perrin tells them what the Tinkers told them about the Eye. And Rand, Mat and Perrin tell them what they dreamed about the Eye. 

And then, pg 596, after all that foreshadowing, Moiraine tells them all - "And just at this point we hear of a threat to the Eye of the World, not from one source, but three, each seeming independent of the others. The Pattern is forcing our path. The Pattern still weaves itself around you three, but what hand now sets the warp, and what hand controls the shuttle? Has the Dark One’s prison weakened enough for him to exert that much control?”

She goes on to discuss this further say they need to get to the Eye quickly, which is all we get in the show. Just one of many things handled very sloppily.

3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

The show hasn't been out for 6 weeks - why would they post a review by someone that didn't get a sneak peek?  Are you a critic that received early access?

As to this, so very sorry. There have been six episodes out, so it was only five weeks ago. I am not a critic who received early access, just a regular schmoe who loved the books. 

1 hour ago, Ralph said:

I think only once in book 1, agreed besides Aiel and Jain

 

I plan to look a bit later to confirm. If you have chapter numbers of where it appears, please send

There are quite a few references to the Eye of the World in book 1 in several chapters, before Moiraine tells them they need to go to it. Here they are:
Chapter 14, The Stag and Lion, page 202, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - “Did they tell you the Eye of the World would serve you?"
Ch 15, Strangers and Friends, pg 224, Mat, Rand & Perrin telling Thom about their dreams, Mat to Thom - "He said so many things. Crazy things. All that about Lews Therin Kinslayer, and Artur Hawkwing. And the Eye of the World.” Then Thom tells them - “As big a legend as the Horn of Valere, at least in the Borderlands. Up there, young men go hunting the Eye of the World the way young men from Illian hunt the Horn.” 

Ch 24, Flight Down the Arinelle, pg 335, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - “The Light will not help you, boy, and the Eye of the World will not serve you."

Ch. 25, The Traveling People, pg 356, Raen tells Elyas and Perin about a Far Dareis Mai's dying words - ‘Leafblighter means to blind the Eye of the World, Lost One. He means to slay the Great Serpent. Warn the People, Lost One. Sightburner comes. Tell them to stand ready for He Who Comes With the Dawn.  Then Perrin reflects on her words - "The Eye of the World. That had been in his dreams, more than once." 

Ch 27, Shelter from the Storm, pg 385, Ba'alzamon to Perrin in a dream - “The Eye of the World will consume you."

Ch 33, The Dark Awaits, pg 461, Ba'alzamon to Rand in a dream - "The Eye of the World will never serve you."

Ch 42, Remembrance of Dreams, pg 593, a few references. First, Loial to Moiraine, Lan and all the Emonds Fielders about a man who came to Stedding Shangtai - "...he told a curious tale which he said he meant to carry to Tar Valon. He said the Dark One intended to blind the Eye of the World, and slay the Great Serpent, kill time itself." And then Perrin tells them what the Tinkers told them about the Eye. And Rand, Mat and Perrin tell them what they dreamed about the Eye. 

And then, pg 596, after all that foreshadowing, Moiraine tells them all - "And just at this point we hear of a threat to the Eye of the World, not from one source, but three, each seeming independent of the others. The Pattern is forcing our path. The Pattern still weaves itself around you three, but what hand now sets the warp, and what hand controls the shuttle? Has the Dark One’s prison weakened enough for him to exert that much control?”

She goes on to discuss this further say they need to get to the Eye quickly, which is all we get in the show. Just one of many things handled very sloppily.

Ralph, you are right, thanks. EotW is only referenced in dreams in book 1 since it's drained and done at the end of the book. I was starting a larger point that encompassed both books, went back and narrowed it to the Eye specifically, and forgot to remove the book 2 reference. 

I'll also add that the reason some of us are here to comment on the show, being long time fans of the books who are devastated by what's happening in the show, is that Amazon, imdb and Rotten Tomatoes are making it very difficult to impossible for critics of the show to post about it. Rotten Tomatoes still hasn't posted my negative review from six weeks ago, even after I've edited it twice and cut most of it out. Right after I posted my Amazon review, Amazon sent me a threatening email saying that my review violates their policies and that this is my first warning. Their policies are incredibly bland, vanilla and vague. I posted nothing offensive and there is no way to query them about what they found objectionable or why I am being given threatening warnings about my review. imdb hasn't posted my review either. So thank goodness this forum exists and we can talk about our reactions to the show like reasonable adults. I've mentioned before that I've visited dragonmount many times over the past dozen years or so, but never posted before because I was here for information and had nothing compelling to add, so didn't register to be able to comment until this show started. 

In books 1 and 2, there were several dreams where the dark one says to Rand, Mat and Perrin, the Eye of the World will not serve you, implying it's some tool, object or person of great power; and that he will destroy the Eye. And the Travelling People in book 1 and one other person (can't remember who at the moment) relate the statements of Aiel who told them that Sightblinder means to destroy the Eye of the World. So there is plenty of foreshadowing about the Eye. In the show, it's just dropped. Lots of time for many other unnecessary and often disturbing scenes and tangents, but no time to build a foundation for the major conflict, grand finale and entire reason for the first book.
And, as a side note, if they need production personnel interviews and Amazon website xrays to explain things in the show, they're not doing it right.

54 minutes ago, PerrinsShadow said:

58 minutes ago, PerrinsShadow said:

 

To CSMOPTOP The Eye of the World is the conclusion of the 1st book. I don't know maybe you picked up the series after book one. But it is a major event in the series... I mean the 1st book was name Eye of the World... I for one am glad Race has not written it out or is planning to gloss over it. 

I think you misunderstood me. I know what The Eye of the World is from having read the prequel and all 14 main books several times over the years. In the series, however, the concept of the eye of the world is just dropped into the last couple minutes of episode 6 with no set up, no dreams to foreshadow the concept. In the context of the series, it means nothing and there is no investment or sense of urgency or drama or suspense. Just, we have to go to this thing, whatever and where ever it is, and like, save the world. It's just one example of many of how badly done this series is. It's a travesty. So much has been sacrificed. The story has been minced up, culled to almost nothing and stitched back together with poor quality, irrelevant, wholesale fabrications to serve an agenda. Just tragic.

I just watched ep 6. Every episode is worse and worse. I can't stand any of the characters except for Lan and maybe Loial and possibly Egwene. Stuff just keeps getting dropped with no context. In the show, what's the Eye of The World to which they are doing? I have no idea, nor do I care. The whole thing is creepy and disturbing. Hollywood has killed yet another classic. 

1 hour ago, Carebear Sedai said:

The problem is Lan was severely underdeveloped and little beyond a male-fantasy figure and a stereotype of what stoicism is. Of course I would rather this was developed with more nuanced writing. Not all change is bad, but then I suppose this is where we would disagree. 

I disagree. New Spring fleshed Lan out very well. Most of that wouldn't be necessary to the TV series, but some of it would been very simple to include in the show instead of all the extra scenes invented from whole cloth like Egwene being tossed into a river, Nynaeve cleaning the mystery spring, and fighting and killing a Trolloc in it, Nynaeve being dragged off by a Trolloc and killing it, 20 minutes of the attack on Emonds Field including 5 minutes of Moraine winding up her power with lots of from-the-waist windmilling and arm waving, the introduction and killing off of Perrin's wife and the Grinwell family, the burning of the Aes Sedai by Valda scene, most of the stuff with Logain including the laughingly sparsely manned and countered Logain rescue attempt, the scenes of the Aes Sedai keeping Logain contained, the Warders lolling around the fire waiting to be summoned for sex and the introduction of a sexual threesome/bisexuality...I could keep going but the amount of screen time devoted to things that don't exist anywhere in the books is the large majority of this series so far. 

   After ep 5, I'm still in the hate category. The whole thing is only very slightly "inspired by" the books in the loosest sense. All of the heavy duty explaining and hard core rationalization about how this extremely different story is really true to the books is just so much noise.

   I have moved from "I hate it with a burning, fiery passion" to "I just really hate it" now, based largely on the fact that 1) the excessive vulgar language e.g.  "pi** in your mouth and tell you it's raining", and "you are such a pri*k" has mostly disappeared, and 2) there hasn't been quite as much gratuitous sex since Rand and Egwene having casual sex in the Winespring Inn. The books weren't sexual until book 5 with the scene with Avienda and Rand, and that was pretty awful, but notice that RJ never repeated a highly graphic sexual encounter like it again in the series, because it went from PG-13 hard into R territory at that point. Lots of families reading with their kids/teens dropped the books at that point as well as adults who dislike graphic sex, like my sister-in-law and several friends.)
Not at all appreciating making the warders into sexual servants of the Aes Sedai, lolling around the fire waiting to be summoned to their Aes Sedai's tents for intimate service. Especially right after Nynaeve tells Lan he isn't how she imagined warders - - that he's not a lapdog with two legs. The juxtaposition was so stupid, it was inadvertently hilarious, rofl!!! And the injection of the bisexual threesome of Alanna and her two intimately cuddly Warders is just so off, it's from some other universe nowhere near WoT.

   There was a line in ep 5 that about made me die laughing, about how men are still in charge in so many places, with the unspoken condemnation that that is a bad thing. I certainly can't tell men are in charge of *anything* in this show except as the leaders of the hated Children of the Light and Hand of the Light - - apparently having men as the leaders and sole members of the evil groups is fine, but not good anywhere else. The books had such fully fleshed, strong female characters, but men were allowed to be leaders, too. The TV show has completely removed all non-evil male leaders thus far: 1) the Mayor and Town Council of Emonds Field are gone, with Meara al'Vere stepping forward in the tavern place of Bran, along with Nynaeve, as town leaders, 2) Ila has taken Raen's place as the Seeker and leader of the Tuatha'an band that Perrin and Egwene fall in with, 3) they completely removed the entire underlying premise for the book series about the male half of the One Power being corrupted and fear of another male channeler breaking the world again so that the Dragon Reborn can be a women or a man; and 4) this isn't the removal of male leadership, just the removal of male charaters period, but all the the Darkfriends that plague Rand and Matt in the books, male and female, become a tough bar owner woman in the nonexistent locale of Breen's Quarry. You know they aren't going to change the traditional Queens of Andor into Kings, nor are they going to change the Far Dareis Mai into the Dudes of the Shield. So why these other changes if not for a completely unnecessary injection of socio-sexual politics? 

   My son and I were totally flabbergasted that in the show, Child Valda has seen Egwene and Perrin once before, with no indication they had anything to do with Aes Sedai or channeling, but because he recognizes them in Ep 5 from a prior innocuous encounter, he grabs and tortures them for zip, zero, nada reason. It made absolutely no sense. 

   Agree with so many others that so much is made up out of whole cloth and so much time is devoted to it; after all the rationalizations that there just isn't time to cover so much important character development and world building from the books, I call BS. What they meant was, it's just too old fashioned and boring a story; look how much better it is with the sex, language, blood and gore and updated sexual sensibilities. How about NO. This show is a hot mess. 

   The only way to save it that I can see is if they do a reboot at the beginning of season 2 by revealing that this season was Lanfear looking into another world via a portal stone and seeing a different turning of the wheel, and then starting over where the books began, and going there instead. It would be awkward and difficult and I doubt Rafe Judkins and the screenwriters of this show are even close to talented enough to pull it off. Jeff Bezos has more money than God and has been throwing $10 billion here for climate change,  two $100 million gifts there to a couple of CNN celebrities, $500 million another place to a charity. He can cover the lost revenue for this mistake without missing a beat and begin anew if he has the guts to do it. 
   There was a ton they could have left out from the books while keeping to the original premise, feel and characters of the books and made it a great TV series, instead of whatever this is. 

   I am just so disappointed with this willfully wrong headed misconception. Oh, for what could have been! ?  ? ? 

On 11/24/2021 at 2:15 PM, Deadsy said:

 

 

You joined this forum for the first time just to whine about the show

In regards to this comment on Aluudra's feedback, this isn't very nice or welcoming. I'm in the hate category as well. I've been coming to look at things on this forum off and on for many years but have never been a commented before since I had to become a member to do so and didn't really have any compelling urge to comment. I feel the TV series has just gutted the basic premise and spirit of the books and is unnecessarily gory and bloody, profane, sexual and woman dominated.