1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

Here's another theory, by Ann Elk. The Forsaken who haven't broken free yet are shadows, like the ones whispering in Logain's ear. They will incarnate when they break free. This puts the "old man" running with "young man in a different category, also not a figment, but a strong male channeler.

Also potentially supported by the scene when Logain breaks free. The weaves are a mix of white and black, of Saidin and Saidar.

9 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

Some people did some checking, and it's not a name used in the book series. So we don't know yet. Seems odd they'd name the voice unless they plan to do more with it.

That was my thought. My initial theory is that we may be seeing hints of the other Forsaken. Elusha could be Lanfear or any of the female Forsaken. When Logain escaped from the cage, the weaves were both black and white. It was a mix of both Saidin and Saidar. I think if he were just breaking through the shield, those weaves would break instead of being sweapt up by Saidin. The other idea is that was the True Power from one (or more) Forsaken that were whispering to him and what we saw in Ghealdan wasn't his madness.

Question:

Do we know who "Elusha" is? When Logain was shown in Ghealdan, the captions attributed one of the shadows speaking to him as "Elusha".

23 minutes ago, phoenixtrinity said:

I agree it was a very cool moment. I've been speculating Nynaeve accidentally created light and what Logain commented as the sun wasn't the weaves (which he can't see) but the "goosebumps" male channelers get in the books plus seeing everyone healed.

I was thinking it could be the light of a ta'veren but I could just as easily be wrong here.

11 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

A little bit early to assume so? We have seen only two male channelers so far.

And there have already been distinct differences in the visualization of both people's madness. One was visualized as a flesh and blood actor. The other was visualized in the same manner as the Power.

As a player of Final Fantasy XIV, all I could think of during the ending scene was "Nynaeve just healer LB3'd"......

((In Final Fantasy XIV, when you're in a dungeon/trial, there is a meter that builds up as you do damage to enemies/bosses and it has 3 sections. When the 3rd is filled, different roles [DPS, Tank, Healer] have different skills but only one can use it before it empties. You only see Healer LB3 in the most dire of circumstances but it resurrects everyone in range [and can rez the entire party] and save from a wipe.))

4 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Honestly, seeing Rafe say his original idea was to combine Master Luhhan into Perrin's mother and have her die, I think that would have been a better choice.

I'm mixed and hesitant as it is still fridging. I really would have rather them firmly establish just how insular Emond's Field was and let the trolloc attack itself explain the broodiness.

Re: The Red Ajah scene

Honestly, I felt it was there just to establish the madness. No more and no less.

37 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Here's a question.  Which is the more egregious change?  That Perrin was married or that Abell Cauthon is a womanizer and Natti Cauthon is a drunk?  I know which one bugs me more as a fan.  I also know which one I've seen complained about at length and in exhaustive detail.  

Why must these be compared? This will vary from person to person I think due to life experiences. My personal feelings are that the addition of Leila affected me more but that doesn't mean either was more or less egregious than the other.

4 hours ago, Daenelia said:

But how could that have been done otherwise? Woulkd it have been an option to have an episode 0 with Perrin's courtship and wedding?

I don't think so but TBH they didn't need to add her at all. The trolloc attack would have been traumatic. Seeing any manner of folks in a small, insular village die would have been traumatic. It would have easily explained the brooding. Other folks have mentioned that Master Luhan was pondered as an option to die.

I'm not saying that Laila wasn't a person but fridging someone is absolutely lazy storytelling at best. There are so many other people that Perrin cares about. His wife did not need to die to start his story arc.

18 hours ago, Beidomon said:

 

The prophesy says the DR has a wang. And that’s kind of important that the DR is prophesied to have to wield Saidin.

And yet in the books there was a plot point where a Balthamel was reborn into a woman's body and still wielded Saidin. It is not one's body that determines the side of the One Power they wield, but their spirit.

12 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

Problem with Laila isn't that they fridged her to jumpstart Perrin's development. It's that no one gives a single F about her, so when the writers keep trying to leverage her name it always falls flat. 

I think it's very much both. The definition of fridging says that it's the killing of a minor character to jumpstart a main character's journey. Had they actually taken even a little time to develop her, it would have felt a lot less like a minor character and just more like a character to me. I understand that they don't have that time and that's also why I think just another choice would have been a lot better. Part of me is waiting for her to have been Lanfear just so she could be reborn later and show up again. ((FTR I hate that idea and I hope it doesn't happen but it'd give them a reason to have her back.))

5 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

 

But we as an audience dont have to care about her. We only need to realise that in this version Perrin cared deeply for her. You saw how he hugged her, even though she was kinda cold to him? That was all I needed to know, to see what her death did to Perrin. I dont have to give a flying fructose about her.

Do we have to know? No. However us caring about her will only deepen the impact if it must be done.

6 minutes ago, Elgee said:

You're being very innocent and naive (and I mean that in a loving way ?) if you think they'll balk at changing ANYthing, when they've changed so much already ?

I don't think they're saying they'll balk at changing anything but replacing Faile is a more major change than we have seen up to this point.

37 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Logain was able to sense Rand though, and they're both male. So it doesn't seem like it's gendered to me.

Gotcha this is the piece of info I was missing. In my second post, I did note that I was unable to verify the veracity of the former statement so I do appreciate this.

On 11/21/2021 at 5:24 PM, Elder_Haman said:

So you believe that there is no history of Whitecloaks killing Aes Sedai? I find that hard to believe. The One Power does not make the Aes Sedai invincible. 
 

I quite like making the Whitecloaks - especially the questioners - more of a threat. 

There is absolutely history of this but also I think the fact that it was a yellow sister in that scene is telling. I think the rings have different colored gems on the show according to Ajah, has anyone screenshot Valda's jingling of the rings to see if we can tell what color they are?

While sure, every sister can wield the One Power, each Ajah has its specializations and the Yellow specialize in healing.

1 minute ago, Theseus78 said:

Part of me wonders if this is less bad as far as tropes go than just a 'in the Two Rivers we protect our women" trope from the books. 

I don't think one is less bad than the other if we're looking at the potential sexism that either can portray.

I need to think on this a little bit but that's my first reaction.

10 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

I'm not aware of sensing ta'veren being gendered, but I haven't read the Companion.

And this is the inherent danger of putting a detail like this in auxiliary media to begin with. Not everyone reads it so it can cause some confusion.

4 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Different pictures for sure.

 

I don't need (and would never expect) a page for page adaptation.  I have a problem with the phrasing from Rafe, Brandon, and others that this is a different turning of the wheel.  It is an adaptation.  They are using 'turning' as cover from negative feedback.

 

Rafe is making the show the way he wants within budgetary and Amazon constraints.  Suck it up, take responsibility for the show you made - realizing that there will be criticism and praise (and there has been praise as well).  He's been in the business long enough to know you can't please everyone.

 

If the concerns and criticism are valid - make changes where you can, or tell people to pound sand and just suck in all the adulation.  He's got the power, he makes the calls.  Just don't hide behind 'turning'.

Okay I can see that now and yeah I do think that showrunners in general need to figure out how to weed out the good and the bad and adapt. That's what makes a good showrunner IMO. I have to admit, I'm not even sure if I've seen anything else that Rafe has done to know whether or not I already like things he's put out.

2 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Yeah... there's nothing saying that there can't be women ta'veren. There definitely can be.

I sometimes feel like in some conversations that folks either A) didn't realize that precisely because it's not in the scope of the books (it's in an extra book no less) and B)  Might know it but don't think it's a solid idea.

I am happy to be proven wrong and I am glad some folks here do know that.

2 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Unpopular with book readers - otherwise there are no changes to complain about, yes?

 

Another turning of the wheel was addressed specifically to book readers before the show premiered.

Yep, I just thought it best to point out that these paint very different pictures. For me, when something adapts a favorite series of mine, I want it to be "in the spirit" but it doesn't need to be a page by page adaptation to make me happy.

Other readers want that page by page adaptation. They're both very valid wants.

I like looking at the big picture. You also have the idea of the fact that if you're looking at public forums and social media, sometimes the negative voices seem louder because they're actually talking about it whereas people who have a favorable opinion do not always voice as such.

3 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

 

Not sure what you mean by the 1st part there? There aren’t any female ta’verren in the scope of the books and the only who can sense ta’verren are Logain, Siuan, and I belive Nicola. Were yiu refencing something else or am I missing something?

In the scope of the books sure, but I read somewhere that Mabriam en Shereed (the Queen of Aramaelle when the Ten Nations also an Aes Sedai) was ta'veren. Which looked to be said in The Wheel of Time Companion. I'm not entirely sure on the veracity of male Aes Sedai but that was my source on female ta'veren existing.

23 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Because that is not what it is.  Just another short cut for covering unpopular changes.

Unpopular with whom?

If it's just book readers, we need to take that into consideration however if we find non-readers saying the changes didn't sit right with them either, it paints an entirely new picture.

1 minute ago, Deadsy said:

I am getting sick of the racists reviewing this show.

People not liking Nynaeve and Egwene's casting choices? Honestly, I'm sick of racists reviewing everything.

On 11/19/2021 at 1:44 AM, CaddySedai said:

I do want to point something out

 

If anything the series has already successfully opened up discussion about NEW WoT content - something we have not had on DM in years. 

 

New members are joining to talk about it with us. 

 

I already view it as a success. Now to see if it has legs. 

Hi! New member here and I agree!

I have been so happy we've been able to have some amazing nuanced discussions surrounding the changes from book to show.

I hope it has legs as well because I think if they're given time, it will grow into something wonderful. It won't be perfect but I think it can be something positive.