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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Mailman

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Posts posted by Mailman

  1.   On 4/27/2025 at 4:15 PM, SinisterDeath said:

     

    To account for Inflation, just look at House of the Dragon as an example.

     

    They had a $200M budget for 10 episodes -> or $20M per episode for the first season.

     

    This aligns with its prior GoT seasons growing budget starting at around $10M per episode, and ending around $15M in 2019.

     

    Toss in 2-5 years of Inflation, and increased demand across the industry and... Yeah. 

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    Especially with GoT I imagine a large amount of the increase would be to cover increasing cast wages. Largely unknowns at the start of the run eight seasons in they would be getting a bigger paypacket.

  2.   On 4/27/2025 at 9:58 AM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

    Regards the books, it is pretty much just the same except the dreamer has nearly total control - if they realise it at least and the guest is not very strong willed. Reference Egwene getting caught in Gawain's dreams. But I think control of the dream would still exist there. Though also in the books there is a varying degree of lucidness, iirc. Like Rand's waterwood dreams of the girls swimming he does not seem all there when Lanfear turns up. Other times people are completely lucid. Not sure if this would be a dreamer/non-dreamer divide. 

     

    In TaR, those without Dreaming talent and/or no experience in the Dream would be completely at the mercy of those with it,even down to their form such as Rahvin turning Rand into an ass. 

     

    Not sure the show has made any attempt to distinguish between dreams and TaR except for the Wise Ones' comments. Might be wrong there. 

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    Just on Gawyn and Egwene they were a special case. Because of the extreme feelings on both sides it made the individuals dream nearly impossible to escape from, strength in the dream was no protection, remember the wise ones making fun of one of their number for falling into her husbands dream and being unable to escape.

     

    Maybe it is possible this existed with Rand and Lanfear but I doubt it.

     

    T'A'R is a level playing field and is subject to the strength and how deeply the person is in the world from in the flesh to as light as using a dream ter'angreal for learning.

  3.   On 4/27/2025 at 5:31 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    At no time in S3 is he depicted as sleeping with her. There is no sex. And as far as I can remember, he does not kiss her (though she kisses him.)

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    I am not watching it again to double check but I got the impression that in about episode 3 she convinces him to go back to having a sexual relationship and then in the episode that Egwene catches them his shirt is undone to the waist and they are more intimate than just kissing. He at no point is reluctant.

     

    His reaction when confronted by Egwene is far more indicative of a stronger relationship than ex-lovers.

  4.   On 4/26/2025 at 9:51 PM, Elder_Haman said:

    What are you talking about? Lanfear literally alters Rand and Egwene's dreams to put them on the little desert wheel thingy. It's not just hinted at, it's an explicit part of the show.

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    Lanfear can shape the location and the environment around them but there is no indication that Rand and Egwene were anything but themselves and fully aware and fully conscious and fully in control of their own actions barring the physical limitation placed by Lanfear.

  5.   On 4/26/2025 at 8:05 PM, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

    I feel everyone is perhaps missing an important point about the carnal goings on in dreams. The slight ambiguouty as to quite what is happening, who is in charge, how much influence does Lanfear have, how much Rand views it as a dream, how much is it really just like being in a physical place, means that we can all interpret what is happening as your headcanon is most comfortable with. One could say this is even excellent writing to give viewers this moral wriggle space. 

     

    Though people that use this ambiguouty to imagine the most uncomfortable interpretation to them possible have me scratching my head. Why would you do that? 

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    I am not doing that my analysis is that Rand and Lanfear are fully awake fully aware and for all intents and purposes might as well be conducting the conversation in the dream as if they are in the same room as each other. Unless Lanfear is running some hidden manipulation of Rand and the viewer is not aware of he is complete control of his actions.

     

    That conclusion then informs as to the actions of the characters in the scene; it is not some deliberate attempt to arrive at an outcome.

  6.   On 4/26/2025 at 2:00 PM, Elder_Haman said:

    Dreams are hugely meaningful precisely because they are a window to the subconscious. 

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    If that how you want to view those dreams as a discussion between Lanfear and Rands subconscious then fine. Nothing will convince me that is what we saw or what actually occurred. If his subconscious is what chose to sleep with Lanfear I in no way consider him at fault. 

     

    If you were to accept my premiss that those conversations were between two people who were in effect fully conscious and aware would that change your opinion on his at fault level.

  7.   On 4/26/2025 at 7:01 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    What difference does that make? Have you never had a conversation in a dream before? (There is, by the way, no evidence that Rand is ‘fully aware’ that he is dreaming in many of these sequences.)

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    Well the dreams mean absolutely nothing then if Rand is not actually a part of them in anything other than an utter dream state. Might as well have cut them all.

  8.   On 4/26/2025 at 6:53 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    You mean other than the fact that they are dream sequences?

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    Dream sequences where they might as well be in the same room as each other are fully aware that they are dreaming and that each of them is actually the actual person they are talking to.

     

    You are not going to change your mind no matter what information I provide so I suggest we stop.

  9.   On 4/26/2025 at 6:48 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    No. Because he’s in his own dream. You can repeat yourself until you’re blue in the face. You’re not persuasive.
     

    A dream is a dream. It is a manifestation of the subconscious. Period. End of story. 

     

     

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    Well nothing of the context of any of the dream sequences that have occurred in the show between Rand and Lanfear in any way show this. They are all as clear as if the 2 people where carrying on a conversation or interaction in the same room as each other.

     

    You can keep pushing this argument till you are blue in the face but no scene in the show supports anything but this.

  10.   On 4/26/2025 at 6:40 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    They absolutely are. This was established by the fact that Egwene walked into it in the same way she walked into Perrin’s and Mat’s and Elayne’s. 
     

    They are Rand’s dreams. Lanfear is manipulating him within them. You’re entitled to your opinion, but your argument is unconvincing. 

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    That established nothing of the sort she saw Lanfear because she was in Rands dream at the time. It does not change the fact that Rand was fully aware of everything I have expounded on above. Rand was not going to be in multiple dreams.

     

  11.   On 4/26/2025 at 4:05 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    You’re never able to express yourself clearly in your dreams? Why do you associate the subconscious with a lack of lucidity?

     

    Rand’s dreams are still just dreams. They are the product of his subconscious. It couldn’t be more obvious that this is the case. Just look at how the locations of his dreams change based on his circumstances. Did he consciously choose those locations? 

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    They are not just regular dreams.

     

    For all intents and purposes every time we have seen him in the dream with Lanfear he might as well have been fully awake because that was the level of interaction between them.

     

    He is fully aware.

    He knows he is with Lanfear.

    He is fully aware it is the actual person Lanfear and not a figment of his dreaming imagination.

    Unless you are alleging that she is using the power he is in full control of his faculties within these dreams even if he was brought there against his will.

     

    I am assuming that she is entering his dreams although the show has not really made this clear at the moment which is why the starting location is probably to do with Rand. Remember she did transport him to the waste and tied him to a wheel in a dream in season 2 I'm assuming that was not Rands dream choice.

     

    He might as well be fully awake and directly talking to Lanfear face to face unimpeded for how the show has set these dream sequences.

  12.   On 4/26/2025 at 3:15 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    What is your point? No one is arguing that he was confused or not lucid. That doesn’t mean that his dream actions are a product of conscious choice. 
     

    He’s dreaming. Lanfear is inserting herself into those dreams and taking advantage of Rand’s subconscious vulnerability. 
     

    This is so obvious that I can’t believe it’s even a discussion. 

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    You are right I can't believe this is even a discussion.

     

    1. adjective
       capable of thinking and expressing yourself in a clear and consistent manner
      “a lucid thinker”
      synonyms:coherent, logical
      rational
      consistent with or based on or using reason
       
       
      So he is thinking logically rationally and coherently and is fully aware that he is in a dream and talking to the real Lanfear and is not confused and you are arguing he is not capable of conscious choice? What are you talking about? Unless Lanfear is using the power on him there is nothing interfering with him making his own decisions. He is conscious within the dream.
       
       
  13.   On 4/26/2025 at 3:00 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    Your argument doesn’t make sense. Again, just because T’a’R exists doesn’t mean that everyone has full agency in their dreams. 
     

    The fact that you remember who and what you dreamed about doesn’t make it less of a dream. It is still an expression of the subconscious. At least until Rand learns the Dream. 
     

    Rand is not “cheating” on anyone, in any way, at any point in the series. 

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    Rand is 100% lucid and fully aware that he is interacting with the real Lanfear during the dream.

     

    At no point is it even suggested that he is confused about what his dreams with Lanfear are.

  14.   On 4/26/2025 at 1:37 AM, Skipp said:

     

    Does he know who she is?  He knows she is a forsaken, yes but all she has done from his PoV is help him.  This is especially noticeable after he calls her out in episode 5 or 6 in season 2.  In their next visit she comes back to him all demure, apologetic and almost submissive.  After this point whenever Rand asks for help she does.  He often does not always gets to see what she does to help him only the results and god knows if Moiraine actually tells him. 

     

    She takes him to see Egwene, she creates the situation to free him in Carhien, she helps take him to Falme and puts in in a position to help Egwene and kill Ishy.  Of course all of these events Lanfear uses to manipulate him for her own desires.

     

    Rand logically knows Lanfear is evil but Rand also still sees the Innkeeper and eventually Mierin.  He wants to believe the good person is there and that her Evil is caused be the Dark One.  It is only later he realizes that Mierin was never a good person, possibly from Lews bleeding through.

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    He knows who she is. If he does not inquire as to her methods or place limitations on how she achieves the aid he is being willfully ignorant.

     

    The fact that he enlisted her aid and it almost certainly led to deaths in Carihein is one of the worst moments in the series.

  15.   On 4/26/2025 at 1:38 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    But he doesn’t outside of the dream. 

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    Again you are defining it as purely the physical act and, on that definition alone, he has not. We do not have T'A'R I would argue there is no difference in any meaningful way between cheating sexually in T'A'R and cheating physically from the point of view of a monogamous relationship.

  16.   On 4/26/2025 at 12:50 AM, SinisterDeath said:

    Devils Advocate, why are we hung up on him "cheating" on Egwene? 

     

    They broke up in Season 1, right?

    In Season 2, he hooked up with Selene.

    He broke off that toxic relationship with Selene.

    He was then forced to be close to Egwene in the sense that they were traveling together for a few months and during that time they decided that they guess? they were a thing again.. maybe? 

    But were they ever actually... Together? The few moments of intimacy we saw Rand tried to have with Egwene, she pulled away. (Because of Lanfears manipulation)  They try to kiss? She turns her head. They try to lay together, she turns over. Rand was being isolated in his interpersonal relationships because of Lanfear.

     

    Listen to their conversation in S3E1? There's no communication, there's no intimacy there. Egwene is so wrapped up in her own suffering and trauma, that she has no idea about what Rand is going through at all. Rand is staring 10 miles away, looking madness in the eye as he's constantly combatting the addictive death that is Saidin that is just at the edge of his finger tips, waiting there for him, every waking second of the day.

     

    And then there's Lanfear, waiting for him every night. With Kind Words, and a warm touch. To take away his troubles, pain, and isolation.

     

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    I am not overly hung up on it other than the show has apparently in season 3 made them a couple again. I assume it was at least partly a way of showing Egwene's PTSD a bit.

     

    I know they had that fight at the end of season 1 but was it just a fight or did they have an official break up? There was that strange scene with Perrin and them.

     

    It is the overall issues for Rand as a character of him choosing to sleep with Lanfear knowing full well who she is that bothers me.

  17.   On 4/25/2025 at 1:32 PM, CaddySedai said:

    yes yes but what WOULD you like to seeeee in a game 😛

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    I'm not really sure, honestly the only game I play consistently is WOW and it seems to me like they are basically promising to release what would amount to WOW and all its expansions in one go. I would assume that they would be angling for something slightly less team orientated than WOW. So something along the lines of dark souls gameplay that i have seen a bit of.

     

    Honestly the reviews would have to be insanely good for me to be likely to pick it up.

    WOW is my main game and then I sporadically play some Civ like games and the occasional tower defence

  18.   On 4/26/2025 at 12:06 AM, Elder_Haman said:

    Correct. Can he expel her? 

     

    Correct. Is this his conscious self? Or his subconscious self? Does the fact that he remembers the dream mean he was able to exercise control while inside it? To state it a different way, what evidence is there that Rand knows how to exercise control within the dream?

     

    You’re joking, right? Their entire relationship consists of Lanfear manipulating him. 

     

    Nor does it show that he consciously chose to do sexy time with Lanfear in the dream. 

     

    How else do you manipulate someone?

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    How else? Ummm with the power.

     

    Rand was lucid in the dream and remembered them perfectly on exit.

     

    I thought you were alleging that she was using the power on him.

     

    No he could not expel her but she convinced him to do the things he did by simply talking to him not through the power or through force.

  19.   On 4/25/2025 at 4:49 PM, Elder_Haman said:

    So Rand is responsible for what happens in his dreams even though Lanfear is uninvited and actively manipulating Rand’s subconscious? Yeah, no. Sorry. 
    You’re welcome to your opinion, but I find your argument entirely unconvincing. 

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    Lanfear uses her abilities to share a dream with Rand but he hardly appears to actively want her to leave and at no point do we get any indication that she is forcing him to do anything against his will within the dream.

     

    You can claim that she is manipulating him but at no point is that actually shown.

  20.   On 4/25/2025 at 4:01 PM, Elder_Haman said:

    Rand has no training in the dream. His dreams are simply dreams. It is Rand’s subconscious that is being manipulated. 
     

    Dreaming about cheating on your spouse is not the same as cheating on your spouse. 

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    Rand is aware that the dreams are more than just his imagination and that he is in fact interacting with the real Lanfear.

  21.  

    I am no expert on the whole red eagle/iwot thing but what they are promising is insane and just impossible not only in terms of time frame but in overall initial release on any timeframe.

     

     

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