2 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

One may feel that sex does NOT necessarily cheapen relationships, and at the same time feel that delayed gratification through a tense, uncertain build up of romance *adds* to the relationship. 

Totally fair point. I love a slow burn story myself. But I felt the implication in the original post was that sex does necessarily cheapen relationships, without a 'waiting' period.

8 hours ago, dorotea said:

Nyn jumping into Lan's bed just cheapened the whole affair to the point of me de-investing out of their relationship altogether.

This is only true if you believe that sex "cheapens" relationships. I felt it simply added another dimension to Lan and Nynaeve's relationship.

I was pretty down on the last 2 episodes but I actually really liked this one, it was my second favourite after Episode 4.

• Moiraine siccing the Red Ajah on Mat, wow! Boy will they be frustrated when they 'gentle' him to no effect! ? Did not like the 'inherent evil' implication, hopefully she will be shown to be wrong
• Rand promising to be Egwene's Warder ?
• Kinda wish we got longer in the Ways but I guess it could have been quite boring... no explanation about how they were corrupted
• I like Min's worldly vibe, felt true to the books to me
• YAY fever dream
• So in character for Rand to go off on his own though I was surprised he took Moiraine with him... also in character for him to subconsciously suspect throughout the season, but be in denial... and the moment when it truly puts his friends at risk, he's finally able to face up to it
• Depiction of the Blight was a not good surprise... a bit too Sleeping Beauty's Castle for me
• Omg the moment when Nynaeve realises how much she has in common with Lan (their families being slaughtered) ?
• Cool interpretation of how the Black Wind might 'feed' on people
• Siuan being Moiraine's downfall... what are they doing with Moiraine's arc?! I'm worried
• Did not like the Perrin/Rand/Egwene love triangle thing, seems out of place and totally unnecessary, too much of a 'teenage drama' plot
• Grrrrrrr they ruined Agelmar's character ?
• Fantastic introduction to Far Dareis Mai (and the Aiel, for that matter). So cool to see the scene enacted since we only get it secondhand in the books.

23 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

In this brief interview she does talk about how different Moiraine is in the book versus the show and some possible reasons for that: 

 

Oh my goodness when she talks about suddenly finding tears streaming down her cheeks, during her reading of the audiobook scene where Agelmar explains Lan's history.... ❤️

19 hours ago, Owayn The Traveller said:

It’s just not very good. I love the books and while I’d like something closer to it, I’m a realist and was expecting changes. 
Changes that made the story play better on screen but it hasn’t been that way so far. 
Sone of the changes make little sense. 
For example, why change the ways like that. It was made by the power but you dint need to use the power to use it. Really sad that the imagery of the Avensdora wasn’t used. How do the shadowspawn use them now? How does Fain talk to Machin Shin? 
5 headed dragon, come on. 
Im watching this with a non-book reader and the only reason she’s continuing to watch is because she knows I love the series. A friends wife is doing the same with him but she thinks it terrible and she likes the Witcher and Game of thrones tv shows. 
The sets look cheap at times, the acting is woeful, it’s very melodramatic, it’s too serious with no real levity. 
nothing looks lived in, they look like sets. 
the costumes design is good at times but everything looks too clean.

 

and before someone gets snarky and says ‘I dint need to watch’ or ‘thanks for watching this far and good luck’, don’t. I’ll be watching to the end in hope that Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time makes an appearance. 
Im a stubborn, woolheaded shepherded like that. 

Yeah. I'm starting to feel this way too. I really, really want to like it, and I was really excited after episode 4, but have felt very let down by the last 2 episodes.

For me it's not so much that it doesn't feel like Wheel of Time. It's more that it's just not a very good story the way they are telling it.

Agree especially about:

• changes that don't make the story play better on screen - again, I don't mind the changes in and of themselves, but taken on their own merits they still just don't work for me
• set looks cheap and "set-like"
• overly melodramatic - case in point from this episode being Moiraine's oath

Although I will say that friends of mine who haven't read the books are still enjoying the show.

And I too will be watching to the end, and next season as well, no matter what.

27 minutes ago, thievingsackofpotatoes said:

I took this as a sign from Mo’s eyes and ears not Egwene. Do think it was a bit rushed though.

Ohhhh you're totally right, not sure why I missed that!

Loved loved loved everything between Moiraine and Siuan. Loved Siuan's backstory at the beginning of the episode. And what a brilliant casting choice with her.

At first was shocked by decision to leave Mat behind but upon reflection I don't really see anything wrong with it... it'll help speed up his story line.

My main problem continues to be the choice to spend weird amounts on time on scenes that are trying to give the show gravitas but it just comes off as melodramatic and unnecessarily long (like the interminable oath rod scene).

Also not giving enough time for things like Moiraine finding Mat and Rand, and how in the Light would Egwene know how to signal Moiraine with a flower in her towel? The lack of linkages really stretches credulity for me.

23 minutes ago, grayavatar said:

 

I don't understand why Stepin had to drug Lan in order to kill himself.

My guess is that they needed to give Stepin an excuse to go see Nynaeve so they could show that she is still grieving the loss of her parents -- "the pain never goes away." But they've already shown that aspect of her character, e.g. when Lan translates her parents' final words. Unnecessary.

On 12/6/2021 at 6:37 AM, LordyLord said:

I think this Review below succintly explains the issue with the episode and to an extent the whole series.

 

Its a very objective critique

 

I will preface this by saying that generally I'm really enjoying the show (episode 5 being the exception).

She's completely right about the camera angles and lighting making the sets look somewhat fake and lacking the "epic fantasy" vibe. It does take me out of the story. Regarding the VFX, I know Rafe mentioned there were issues with Covid, but there's no excuse for the other stuff. Hopefully this all improves in season 2.

The "overly-clean" costumes I don't mind because it feels like a part of the show's overall aesthetic (being more colourful and vibrant than GoT). Her comment about the Whitecloak haircuts made me laugh... pretty sure their hairstyles are intentionally meant to evoke the infamous "fashy haircut."

The awkward editing/pacing was a big problem in episode 5, like even if they had taken one bloody minute from Stepin to make Nynaeve finding Rand and Mat more realistic... not to mention the whole "One month later." Other episodes I found the pacing and editing to be fine, which was a big relief. Too bad Rafe didn't get the 10 episodes like he wanted... it would have solved all the issues with episode 5. Seriously Amazon, if you want the next GoT you've gotta go all in.

But I didn't find it at all out of character for Lan to be the designated mourner. It feels fully in line with his concern for duty and ceremony. There's a lot of anxiety about masculinity in this thread. I'm sure there will be lots of chances in future episodes/seasons for our male heroes to do their hero thing ?

36 minutes ago, Agitel said:

I don't recall it ever being mentioned. We never saw that type of ritual in the books. 

In general they are leaning heavily on ritual for the show, inventing lots of new ceremonies -- Bel Tine, Lan's, the funerals, ring melting. Clearly a very conscious choice, I guess trying to give the show some spiritual depth and a way to slow the show down. As well as integrate some of what we learn at the very end of the series.

My partner (who hasn't read the books) feels it's over-the-top and not realistic that everyone in that world would be so spiritual with reincarnation and the Wheel. I personally don't mind the tone except insofar as it takes up maybe a little too much plot time. But it's an interesting choice for sure.

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

That hilarious quick cut to a wolf attacking a Whitecloak out of nowhere and then the quick cut to after is probably a good sign that the work with the wolfdogs didn't go well and the wolves are likely going to be very downplayed as a result.

Not sure, I think that might be reading into it a little too much. At any rate I hope so!

What I liked:

• Rosamund Pike continues to absolutely embody Moiraine for me. She has more nuance than in the books, yet the nuance is all totally within the book character. Just perfect.

• Really liked the scene between Moiraine and Alanna chilling together, in fact all their scenes together have been great.

• Enjoying Nynaeve's closeness and friendship with all the Warders. Departure from the books but seems in character to me.

• So relieved they put in the Whitecloaks capture scene; when Perrin and Egwene saw the White Tower I panicked that they would skip it. Should have trusted Rafe not to do something so silly ?

• Logain seeing Rand and roaring with laughter was powerful -- though would he have been able to sense that Rand could channel, having already been gentled?

What I didn't like:

• My biggest problem was Loial finding Nynaeve... like, we barely even realize that Rand and Loial have met, and next thing you know Loial shows up like they're already besties... but more problematically, Tar Valon has people from all over, would Nynaeve really be the only woman with a braid? It just seems like a huge plot hole to me.

• Valda's comment about Egwene saying "I can't channel" drove home the weirdness of him not just asking Moiraine "Are you Aes Sedai?"

• This was the first episode where the pacing felt somewhat off to me, with the "1 month later and suddenly everyone made it to Tar Valon." But I understand why they had to do it. I said to my partner, "They cut all the adventures!" and my partner asked me, "What specifically from the books did they cut that is significant to the plot?" and I wasn't able to find much essential stuff... aside from Caemlyn obviously, but that doesn't really count since they are doing some of that in Tar Valon instead, and the rest in season 2.

13 minutes ago, Indil said:

I understand plots must be cut for the sake of time, but then they decided to film a bunch of Steppin grief moments instead.

This ^ I really liked the scene between Loial and Rand but it was way too short. Could they not have taken off a few minutes from Steppin and given them to Loial who is such an important character?

It doesn't seem like anyone has posted in this thread so far about Rafe's response to the Bela question in the Reddit AMA:

Q: Thank you so much for including a Bella name drop in episode 2. Can we assume that you, as a proper fan boy, will be keeping her entire story arc in place as the creator’s avatar on Randland?

A: Literally, everyone in the horse department knows everything about Bela. There are many elderly Czech men who have an eye on Bela's long-term arc in the show and they don't even know what the Wheel of Time is.

So I think we're safe.

30 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Here's another theory, by Ann Elk. The Forsaken who haven't broken free yet are shadows, like the ones whispering in Logain's ear.

Ooooohhh especially as Moiraine made the earlier comment that the Dark One "is already whispering in our ears." Yes, I think this is a likely theory.

49 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Come over to the dark side. Elusha Salid = Lanfear.

I'm at least on board with the Forsaken theory. Whether it's Lanfear or not, we shall see! Could be a cool way to introduce her.

1 hour ago, Harad the White said:

You were clear. As caddysedai also noted, there is a slight possibility that the Gyptians in HDM, written 11 years after WoT, were a "homage" to the Tinkers in WoT. Why should WoT feel constrained to portray it's characters because of that?

All these different portrayals are imitating the Roma, not each other. As for the Tinkers specifically, well the Roma are literally called "Travellers" in the UK. One could argue whether it's cultural appropriation or homage.

13 hours ago, dorotea said:

2. Pretty lame Tinkers : the visuals are all the flower children of the 60 ties minus the music, which is horrible, colors are drab, dancing is asexual and  lame, it feels like the flower children meet Tolstoy crossed with Amish.

I have mixed feelings about the Tinkers. I would have totally agreed with you after episode 3 but for some reason I felt they came across a bit better in episode 4. Maybe because I loved Ila's dialogue. The colours seemed brighter, too. (I saw someone else made that comment as well).

I agree they're leaning too heavily towards the hippie vibe with the dreadlocks, it made them too cliché.

They probably introduced the Amish thing so that their children are portrayed as having more of a "choice" rather than "forcing" them into the Way of the Leaf. Perhaps they are suggesting that these are the same people as the Amish, in a later turning of the Wheel? But I feel they deserve to be their own thing.

Agree that the dancing was disappointingly asexual, I think they wanted to tone down the "women dance for the men" aspect, but they could have just made EVERYONE dance a little bit sexily... ?

39 minutes ago, Els said:

So far Zoe Robins is killing it at playing Nynaeve and it's been a complete 180 from a frustrating character in RJ's depiction in the books to a holy cow she is one of my favourite characters so far in the show. 

This ^

5 hours ago, KakitaOCU said:

Please share where the sexual tension was.  

They don't share romantic looks, they don't embrace or touch tenderly.  The "sexual tension" appears to be that they are the opposite gender and alone together.

I personally didn't feel there was sexual tension. But when I talked with a friend of mine (who hasn't read the books) after watching, she commented that she thought there was.

They obviously have really good chemistry and some people are reading it as sexual. Not sure to what extent it's intentional.

LOVED this episode. The first three I enjoyed with some reservations but this was the first one I was fully invested in. I almost cried four times:

1. Ila explains to Perrin why she follows the Way of the Leaf.

2. Thom tells Rand about Owyn.

3. Lan translates the Old Tongue for Nynaeve.

4. Nynaeve finally explodes with the One Power.

Also love that Alanna's Warders are bi ❤️

And finding myself enjoying Liandrin way more than I thought I would.

Light willing, in later seasons they will get a bigger budget for the One Power SFX, although I thought it was better in this episode than Episode 1.

12 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

Yeah to be honest the 4 ta'veren line just doesn't make sense. Even if Moiraine's eyes and ears are following crazy events like sudden weddings in Emond's Field, how would they know there are 4 separate ta'veren? Wouldn't 1 be enough for all that stuff to happen? 

Good point. It's a very specific number. I suppose the eyes-and-ears could have informants who are residents of Emond's Field, who might have more detailed knowledge of individual people and unusual events that happen in the presence of specific children. It does seem like a stretch though.

6 hours ago, Deadsy said:

It would have been fine to have that scene and not mention ta'veren. Just do the old blood line. There are enough words in the show already ?

Maybe trying to introduce the concept of ta'veren as early as possible, not sure why it has to be SO soon though.

5 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

I mean it only half explains things right? We know how's she heard of them, but we don't know what points them out as ta'veren in anyway.

Well after Rand goes off on his own in tDR, they are able to track him by following the trail of "weird events" (like a spate of weddings). Maybe the eyes-and-ears heard similar reports.

4 minutes ago, Arthellion said:

This is really interesting to me. Because both I (book fan) and wife (never touched the books) were absolutely wowed by the one power scene. Felt like it was the best rendition of magic we've seen on television or film. (Maybe Doctor Strange beats it out, but aside from that...)

Interesting, I thought it wasn't well-integrated and looked a bit "added-on" in that CGI way, although I was impressed with the visual itself and how it portrayed the weaves.

Did anyone understand what was going on with the blue stone that Mat took from the Aiel? Am I missing something embarrassingly obvious?

34 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

And Valda is an excellent creep but kind of a shit Questioner. He didn’t think to just ask “are you Aes Sedai”?

LOL, I thought this too, but then maybe he knows that an Aes Sedai would find a way to get around answering it...