3 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

@TheDreadReader is right. The scene with the Seanchan doesn't need or require proper context because it's designed to make general audiences go 'Okay, what does that mean?'.

 

 

The 2 I know who are none book readers arnt talking about it.  They kinda shrugged and said whats all that about. 

Indifference as it meant nothing. 

It had no context, no clue about it...anything at all.  It just didnt do anything for them, it was irrelevant as part of WOTs1 and certainly nothing to say to a friend..'omg go watch WOT...the end is amazing'.

4 hours ago, Variant said:

 

I have been frankly amazed when people set out to produce entertainment for a living and forget to...

 

Actually tell the story in a compelling and cohesive way.

 

My non-book reading friends who I told to watch this are basically telling me they aren't sure why they should be watching this and I believe it is because very little time is spent setting up and explaining/showing what is going on and why they should care.

 

 

I have had the same problem.  As with GOT, told friends n family to watch this.

They all got hooked on GOT.

With this, they just dont get it.  Mixed up writing.  Even without book changes for them, a few have said the 'men from the start have done nothing, are they important'?

The very few left watching(my wife plus one other) regards the end both just had no idea what the end was.  Some ships appeared and they sent a tidal wave to a beach.  Fascinating.

I thought E1 as a TV show (for none book readers) was ok.

Thought 8 was among the worst.

7 probably the best for me.

5 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

The ships don't have to "mean" anything in that context beyond getting a baseline average viewer to ask "what are those ships?"   

 

It is the equivalent of a Marvel post-credit scene.   Or, a movie teaser with a few pictures and a coming soon.

 

One does not have to overthink the simple stuff.  ?

 

The way I see it...its not a post credit scene though, its the ending to WOT Season 1 and to many people such as my wife who have not read the books, it simply didn't mean anything.  No emotion, no elation, no nothing.

I hate to bring it up again but I do believe its relevant.  Compare it to the ending of S1 GOT from any none book reader perspective.   Ending of GOT had people elated.  My wife at the end of S1 WOT(and bare in mind she generally enjoyed WOT) just said 'what was all that about'?  It means nothing at all.   It wasnt an invasion, it wasnt anything...some people created a tidal wave against nothing.  Thats what was portrayed.

 The endings of the 2 shows simply dont stack up for none book readers...who fantasy shows must draw in to become a success.

I am sure we all here want WOT to be seen through to its conclusion.  They need to become much more clever to build its success unless they want it to become a footnote 'WOT TV Show, cancelled Season 2/3'.

2 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Just because we were not shown someone other than the girl in the frame it doesn't mean that others outside of frame did not exist.  We just don't know.

 

To be honest, it was just a money shot from the CGI budget.  I find it amusing that people focus on the little girl so much.  My first thought watching it was to remember this shot from an older tv show.

 

Wouldnt a better season ending sequence be better if they showed something that meant something to people watching?

Rather than they might have done that for a reason...they might not have.  Exciting stuff!!!!

They have done some really bad things on this.  The ships meant absolutely nothing to most people watching.

In 3 seconds ive improved it...a very very quick scene at a border/shore watch post...a guy rides in and says Sir....we have seen enemy ships approaching the coastline, they have attacked and sunk one of our vessels, it looks like an invasion(im sure it can be improved upon).  My wife just thought they were more AS coming to help.

It was a season closing sequence that meant absolutely nothing whatsoever to any none book person.

On 12/25/2021 at 10:44 PM, Fox said:

I think the collar and leash on the damane wouldn't have been received well. The gag still gets across their treatment of channelers, without really triggering some groups of people. 

Cant just commit the worlds worst act and....dare I say it.....OFFEND somebody can they now.  What do you think this is???  ?

Its crossed my mind they were so focused on diversity they forgot some of the other factors such as continuity or the book character traits etc.

Seen so many articles by the actors and the show runner where Diversity has been THE topic they focus on.

Diversity isnt a bad thing, dont level that daft thing at me...but I genuinely feel it was something they have latched on to as the most important selling point.   When its gets to that point, its just silly.

All imo of course.

26 minutes ago, Arie said:

Let's remain on-topic Please. ? This is WoT not GoT.

Surely GOT is relevant here?

They are both (until recently) taboo subjects for TV Series...and GOT absolutely blew the world away and set a benchmark.

They did it by being true to the books wherever they could for the most part in my opinion.

I wonder what the WOT were thinking after absorbing GOT and then deciding to blow away the source material for their own better version of characters and events?

In truth...its absolutely baffling me right now.  I was hoping for GOTesque new blockbuster(in the sense of another huge fantasy TV show..not in the sense of copying or pretending to be GOT).

18 hours ago, 7th age said:

 

Thats not entirely true though is it?

They already changed some bits in the early seasons(almost stopped watching it after episode one due to them making Drogo rape Daenaerys and I while I liked the Tywin/Arya bit in season 2 I was very much disappointed we didnt get any weasel soup) and then had to invent new stuff later on and we all know how that turned out (the total clusterfuck started in season 5, not 8. people just chose to ignore it because of nice action scenes and the hope it would somehow fit together at the end instead of just being a series of "shocking" moments).

 

Of course this just strengthens your point. GoT was succesfull where they followed the Bookscript and failed where they deviated from it.

 

For me this is semi true for this series as well.  I somewhat enjoy the analyzing and there are a lot of changes I can understand due to change of medium (the logain bits/ep 4 was excellent and for me there is no hard deviation from the books, as this story was unfolding in the background and all the small scenes showing  AS/warders just made for excellent worldbuilding for the Nonbookies), or due to things that are annoying but out of the producers hands (cuts due too budget/time restraints and Mat actor leaving).

 

Where I really have problems are the sometimes rather small changes that I cant explain/understand in these terms. The whole ep.5 Steppin storyline comes to mind(ep4. Stepping and Kerene were awesome for introducing warder/AS relationship).

Making Egwene killing/stabbing Whitecloaks but not Perrin(after fridging his wife I was sure they were going to cut the whitecloak capturing of them due to time issues, but then they leave most of that except the part that actually has consequences throughout the later books???)

 

And then there are the somewhat small but clearly ideologicaly motivated changes to Agelmar and the Borderlanders, why make him disrespectful towards AS, dismissive of the Shadow as a threat and the opinions of others in general, have him refuse the armor of his ancestors  and instead have his sister wear it??? . The whole idea of the women (and children?????????) staying to defend the city is a 100% reversal of Borderlander culture.

In a world mostly dominated by women this was the one thing women were not allowed, it ties into their whole chivalry thing (rather die then let a women take a wound etc.) plus this always seemed supremly realistic to me. I know RJ once said that out of all the characters he felt he had done the soldiers best and while Im not a soldier myself I have worked with quite a few of them. You can ask people to die and If they feel that doing so will protect their loved ones quite a few will be willing to take on gigantic risks. Tell someone that they should fight a hopeless battle, only so that their wife and kids can follow them into the grave and any decent parent/husband would take their family and run asap.

 

 

I dont know what to say to you....if you are going to argue that the changes in GOT are comparable to the ones ive just watched in WOT ep8....then I really cant say much to you.

What on earth have I just watched.

21 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

Honestly I liked it. 
 

It diverged hard from the books so I think this is where some people get off the trolly. 

 

For the rest of us who stay on are going to be in for some interesting stuff. 

 

Yeah Id have loved for the series to hold true to the stories. 

 

But way I see it - I have no idea what will happen now. 
 

To me this is a new story now - one I am walking into blindly like the non readers will. 

 

I have an idea of the forest I am walking into, so at least I have that. But the map is old and hasn’t been updated in years. 

Thank god the Game of Thrones shown makers didnt think like the WOT ones did.

Thats why GOT became a worldwide mega hit, they didnt mess around and think 'hey, you know what, wouldnt it be cool if Eddard jumped up and stabbed Joffrey and then flew away on a Superwoman version of Caitlyn stark'...coz...hey that would be cool!!

They knew the books were popular for a reason...and were clever enough to follow the story even though a few minor details were changed.

For what its worth, I really enjoyed Ep7.

Finally they told some of the story as it should have been imo....(still some ridiculous 'we know best' changes mind).

Shame most of the family I got to start watching it have already packed in with it.

When GOT came out(well....before it)I advised various family to watch this upcming series as the books were amazing...and if they stuck to the books, it could be immense.

They all started watching, they grew hooked and loved it over many years.

Forward wind to 2 months ago, told them the same sort of thing re WOT.

Now, after 5 episodes(yes 5), every single one of them have stopped watching it.  Boring...nonsense is the most common statement.

WOT is not going to be going down as a sucess....it wont be remembered.

Ardent GOT fans loved GOT and spread the word like wildfire....a brilliant story being retold on the screens.

From what I can tell...WOT book fans are as in the dark about WTH is going on in WOT as none readers are.  Why they bothered picking a franchise if they thought it required so much changing is utterly beyond me.

They thought they know better than the authors.....invariably...they dont.

Was Shadar Logoth and Tor Valon the exact same set?  the curved street?

Just watched Ep5.

Wow.  I am baffled why they pick a certain set of books to put on screen...then decide they dont like it and change it so much.

Whitecloaks doing a fair job...running round killing Aes Sedai within sight of the Tor Valon.

29 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Call it a hunch on my part. There's a lot of tough, older, notable male characters soldiers in WOT and relatively few notable female characters who are the same. They've already made changes to bring more women into greater focus with the Two Rivers and the Tinkers, so it wouldn't be surprising to see a few of those male characters be swapped to female characters.

 

I think how big they make the Elyas role compared to the Hopper role depends entirely on how well the early work with the wolf dogs went.

 

Who knows, we might even get a female Hopper as his mentor.

Just why the hell do they do this?

Well one thing is for sure...im pleased Game of Thrones followed the books very closely(certainly early on).

The books become popular because they are good....they dont need fundamentally changing.

Im a little baffled by WOT at the moment, its almost like they have taken the setting and characters...and have decided Jordans story is not acceptable/good and want to use his work on a story of their own.

Does my memory serve right in that it was Lan that sneaked up on Nyneave unheard?

If so....can you just imagine the meeting deciding the scene.

so this bloody book says the seasoned warrior sneaks up on the naïve village girl in the woods.

You guys know what would make it better...if the naïve girl sneaked up on the experienced outdoorsman!!

Great idea...good show chap, bravo.

How do they get these bloody ideas?????  ?

Starting to (sadly) get very bad vibes from this.

I really hope I am wrong and its amazing.

Unrecognisable from the books.

100% Rand and Egwene will be having sex before you know it...because you know, the TV Show writers know best.

11 minutes ago, forbiddento said:

 

A and B are true. 

On A: because of this attitude, the show will fail spectacularly. We are witnessing right now that the more scenes come forward from the show, the bigger the backlash. Of course, banning more and more people who express their opinions will not work. And screaming "You are racist!" will not work, because facts are facts.

On B: Robert Jordan was white, heterosexual, and Christian, and his most important characters are white, heterosexual, and the books are filled with Christian allegories. According to today's political climate these traits are disgusting even apart from each other, so it was "inevitable" to change them.

It is rather amusing that if you quote from the Jordan's books, notes, and interviews to point out the show's errors, you will be called a racist, a sexist, a misogynist, and many other things.

Still, there's a silver lining (as always): nobody will remember this show in five years. Nobody.

That's my fear.  I WANT this to be successful.  The 'next game of thrones' if you will pardon the obvious comparison. 

GOT would never have become what it was if they had changed the early Books as much as I worry they have changed WOT.

People loved the books (GOT and WOT) and they do not need reinventing.  Changes can be understood but its a fine line.  The first in the queue to watch GOT were fans of the books.  The same will be true of WOT.  

Get those people on board and have word of mouth do the rest.

If they decide they know best and write a new story for TV to appear politically correct......nobody will remember this as you suggest.  Follow the loved story and it will have a chance.

Fingers Crossed.

On 10/9/2021 at 3:33 PM, CaddySedai said:

 

Sorry to hear that, you will be missed during the watch parties. 

Strange reply.

Just like you, I look forward to it and hope it will be fantastic.

Surely the more people that watch and get on board with the Series...the more chance we have of having a long running 6 Series version of WOT?

On 10/9/2021 at 11:44 AM, DojoToad said:

Well, if you have convinced yourself then there isn't anything else to say.  Personally, I'm waiting for the show to air before I decide if Rafe and the gang have ruined it.

Dont get me wrong, im approaching and watching it with great anticipation.  Hope it will be brilliant.

I have absolutely convinced myself they are going to -

A-  Think they know better than the Author and change too much...thinking its for the best.

B-  Make it very politically correct....rather than focus on telling a much loved great story.

Hi all.

Finally got round to reading the first book after being advised to read it about....20 years ago hehe.

I enjoyed the book a lot and I am going to post a few points which may seem like I am trying to be ultra critical, I am not but I do not understand a large portion of the ending of Eye of the World.  For reference, I will certainly go on and read book 2.

Ok, my confusion comes from the book being a detailed story of a long adventure, then all of a sudden as they go back outside at the eye of the world, it kinda feels like the writer runs out of energy?

All of a sudden Rand vanishes and appears in a battle (is this the battle of Tarwins Gap?...but didnt they say they didnt fight later in the book?)  It just felt like he had run out of pages so 'Rand just appeared' there.

Then to cap it off, boom, he appears with Bealzemon (spelling) and also fights with him out of nowhere?

Can anyone explain a bit more, did I read it right and not quite catch something?(perfectly possible).  

Thanks for any clarification/opinion and apologies if its been cover a thousand times.