Yeah, really! Such a good actor to kill off so soon.

15 hours ago, johnnysd2 said:

 

All that is true, but Thom early on is the "protector" of the kids from the evil Aes Sedai and especially to prevent gentling of Rand. That is very thematically important. Plus he is the vehicle of humor in the books to some extent, but that could be greatly expanded in the bools. I think Thom is actually the character (other than Fain) to be expanded in the books and I could actually see this as sort of a feature role for a known actor, probably a comedic one that wants more of a serious role in a big event show like this.

More than that even. He teaches Mat and Rand the skills they use to earn meals and lodging during their voyage to Camelyn, without which the show producers will have to answer how they managed to stay alive all by themselves all that way (recall that both they and Perrin and Egwene went days without even being able to snare a rabbit for dinner). If that was all, they could certainly work around it. But he is also a master at Daes Daemar, and he not only helps to instruct Rand in the game, but he is also very instrumental in ferreting out information for Rand and Moiraine in Tear, and Nyaneave and Elayne in Tanchico.

I agree that Thom's role would be better expanded than cut, and a well known actor would help to draw people in. If only the producers read this forum!

19 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

If you add together Moraine being the key character of season 1 (by all accounts) and pillow friends out the wazoo. It seems likely we will be getting Moraine flashbacks including her relationship with Siuan.  I am not entirely sure why making a character a Lesbian rather than Bi-sexual is going to ruin the story personally?. Thom is tacked on at the end and for all we know they are cutting the character anyway. If anything this could enhance the story with Moraine having to deal with the details of the deposing and stilling of her lover while still keeping to the mission to which they both sacrificed so much. Who has the stronger relationship Moraine and Siuan or Moraine and Thom?

 

The rest of the post I fully agree with, you cannot easily make any of the other main characters gay, without distorting the story. Galad could be made gay as well but other than that it is difficult.  

 

Oh, I fully expect to see some flashbacks, or actually all it would take is one , for instance when Moiraine and Siuan see each other for the first time in years in Shienar. But it would be a past relationship, not a current one. Making Moiraine and Siuan have ANY romantic interests whatsoever would go totally against the core of their characters. They are both too committed to their mission of finding and helping the DR to have the time or desire for romantic entanglements. Siuan even says as much to herself in FoH.

There is also the fact that Siuan and Moiraine have not seen each for YEARS, and have barely even had any contact. This is an important point because it makes other Aes Sedai suspicious of Moiraine, and of Siuan when she does not reign her in.

Moiraine does not struggle with the fact that Siuan has been deposed and stilled (she doesn't struggle with much in fact). She is saddened by it, but she and Siuan knew when they first began the probable consequences  if they were ever found out, and they accepted it (Moiraine thinks this to herself when she learns of Siuan's fate). They both saw it as worth it, and as far as Moiraine is concerned, there is nothing to deal with. She does what is needed to accomplish her goal, and accepts what she must cooly. Remember when she told the boys she would destroy them herself rather than let the Dark One have them? If she had had to resort to that, she would have been saddened by it, and regret the necessity, but it is not something she would have to struggle with emotionally afterward.

I hope that explains why I think it would hurt the show for Moiraine and Siuan to be lovers.

And of course in my previous post, I was assuming Thom will be in the show. I can't imagine how they could cut him. He is so important to many plots in the story.

Yeah, I guess Galad could be gay. What I hope they don't do with Galad is depict him as the heartless beast that Elayne makes him out to be. He is committed to always doing what he believes is right, but he is not heartless. I do think it's cute how he fawns over Egwene. And of course there is the fact that Gawyn won't make his interest in her known because of his devotion to Galad.

I still think if they are intent on making one of the main characters gay, make it Egwene. That serves the purpose of having a main gay character if they feel that is necessary, and eliminates her abysmal romance with Gawyn, which always just felt like filler to me.

On 6/30/2019 at 10:23 PM, DemandredFO said:

Pillow friends isn't about checking boxes and anyone who knows or gets interested in the books will know that. It's a blatant attempt to inject sex into story. Does this mean their Middle-earth series will have sex scenes, I know, maybe Aragon and Arwen could have a secret tryst.

A blatant attempt to inject sex into a story is checking a box too. They're the boxes of what sells and/or makes the show politically correct so as to garner positive media coverage.

So, we know there are going to be pillow friends. Why is has to be out the wazoo I can't understand. Having them just to have them does not enhance the story.

I have very specific reasons why making certain characters gay or bi will actually hurt the story.

Moiraine and Siuan were pillow friends in their novice days. In New Spring I think it is, it is explained that novices and accepted engage in this activity because of the stress and loneliness they experience during their training and they are basically cut off from the outside world, which includes men. The WoT Companion states that this behavior usually ended when the women were raised to the shawl. So, reference to Moiraine and Siuan's previous relationship is one thing, but to make Moiraine a lesbian is totally inconsistent with her character. For one, she is totally consumed by her search for the Dragon Reborn, to the exclusion of all else. Secondly, her relationship Thom appears to come out of nowhere toward the end of the series, but there are very subtle hints as early as TGH. My hope is the show will make those hints a little more obvious so that it will not seem to come out of nowhere. Making Moiraine a lesbian will just make her marriage to Thom totally incongruous.

Mat is a lady's man--that is a big part of his character. And although he marries Tuon by accident, he does come to find her attractive and to care for her. So no, he can't be gay.

And Perrin? That's laughable! He falls in love with Faile in book 4 and marries her in book 5, and she is pivotal to his character development. And although they will encounter different views on sexuality outside of the Two Rivers, the Two Rivers, where Perrin and Faile become Lord and Lady, is a quaint, ultra conservative area where homosexuality would not be accepted. If you make any of the Emond's Fielders homosexual, you have to change the nature of the place where they grew up too.

Aviendha and Elayne--the whole reason Aviendha is so hateful toward Rand when she is forced to stay with him all the time and tutor him is because she is falling in love with him and feels guilty toward Elayne. Make her a lesbian and you totally lose that dynamic. Elyane becomes pregnant with Rand's children! And one of Min's viewings shows that her babies will be born safely, so she takes all kinds of stupid risks she would not otherwise take because she feels completely safe due to Min's viewing. Plus, there is something about feeling such a strong bond to each other that they become first sisters. That's for life. Romantic relationships are not necessarily.

Egwene actually could end up being a lesbian because no one likes Gawyn or their romance anyway. Not to mention they both die the day after they are married (she never returns to Emond's Field), so really nothing lost there. And they could start by having Egwene wonder why she is not attracted to either Galad or Gawyn, two extremely handsome men that other women fawn over. Gawyn can still be her warder however.

On 7/1/2019 at 2:24 PM, johnnysd2 said:

 

I get a feeling they are cutting Min. I hope not but we will see.

What gives you that feeling?  I think she is too pivotal to be cut, and I don't even like her that much.

On 6/26/2019 at 7:38 PM, Captainwilhelm96 said:

Not necessarily since the breaking reshaped the continents and we have no pre-breaking maps and so no way of knowing what the continents looked like in the Age of Legends.

What I meant is that we know for certain our continents were not shaped like that in the past, so it would have to be the future. Far future was perhaps a bit exaggeration considering our ever increasing rate of technological advancement, but still considerable future because the Age of Legends lasted quite a long time.

On 6/28/2019 at 1:06 PM, Jaglover said:

Take that away and you have different characters in a show called WOT, but not keeping its core. 

The characters are central to the story.  Why would we want different characters? It wouldn't be the great series it is without the characters created and his masterful character building.

On 6/28/2019 at 1:16 PM, johnnysd2 said:

 

Not sure I would agree with your sentiments. For many, Perrin's side journey in EoTW is a favorite part of the series.

Not only that, it is ESSENTIAL to his character arc.

On 6/28/2019 at 1:16 PM, johnnysd2 said:

In terms of the sex, having a higher degree of nudity and sex outside of the Two Rivers clan can reinforce their backwardness.

Who says they're backward? Just because they're more conservative than a lot of the rest of the world (Randland and the real world) doesn't make them backward. But being exposed to more liberal views on sex and nudity when they leave the Two Rivers does emphasize their conservatism. The two do not go hand in hand, however. In Shienar, men and women bathe together, but men are strictly prohibited from the women's apartments.

And I do not think it's accurate to say only Two Rivers folk are conservative (perhaps just the most). For instance, Faile says a few times she feels as forward as a Domani hussy, implying that Saldeans may lean more to the conservative side. I think what Jordan was going for was different customs in varying degrees of conservatism or liberalism in different countries, not that everyone outside of the Two Rivers has liberal views on sex, and I hope that is how it is presented in the show.

22 hours ago, Jaglover said:

Elements have to be taken out of EOTW as well

I think it is safe to say that there will be things taken out of every book, just some more than others.

On 6/28/2019 at 3:34 PM, DemandredFO said:

I really wish they would drop pillows, I don't think it will get them significantly more viewers.

23 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

Well the show runner has said (I believe) that they want more diversity including a LGBT element. An easy way to bring that in, without drastically changing any of the core characters, is to develop themes already in the books, hinted at by "pillow friends". Make some of the Aes Sedai bisexual and make others exclusively Lesbian. 

 

It is not to say that this will necessarily improve the show over the books, only that it would then garner positive media attention and also position it more in the adult rather than PG-13 camp. Given that Morraine's relationship with Thom is tacked on at the end she seems an obvious choice to move in that direction. 

I wish they would forget about pillow friends too. The only way it adds anything to the story is if they adapt "New Spring" , because the whole idea about pillow friends, as it was presented, was that it was a way for them to deal with the harsh difficulties and loneliness (no boys allowed) of Aes Sedai training.

Even that Sea Folk woman who got caught with another woman was married, and she was just lonely for her husband because she had been away from him for a very long time.

Dealing with Aes Sedai sexuality is a waste of screen time period, because most Aes Sedai have devoted themselves to serving the White Tower which does not leave room for romance for most of them (Greens excepted obviously). In that way I think it detracts from the story, not enhances it. There are a few references made to men or women who prefer the company of the same sex; I think some mentions here and there are sufficient to get the point across that it exists in Randland.  Heck, romance is only an important part of the story among the main characters anyway. Unfortunately, they have to check those boxes.

As far as PG-13 vs R rating, with all the violence, how could it be PG-13 anyway?

15 hours ago, johnnysd2 said:

 

I guess I just dont see from a narrative standpoint why Season 1 will be weaker. As a comparison it would be way more exciting than the first season of GOT, and it introduces many key elements and characters and the end is phenomenally exciting. i suspect they may incorporate the first few chapters of Book 2 as well and end with the start of the hunt. So maybe 8 episodes for EoTW and 2 for Great Hunt

I agree totally. The foundation for the characters and the world is set in EotW. The Emond's Fielders learn that all of these monsters they thought were just made up for scaring naughty children are real (and more); they see the awesome things Aes Sedai can do with the OP and it awes and scares them; Egwene and Nyaneave learn that they can channel; Perrin learns he can talk to wolves; all three boys learn they are taveren and at the end Rand learns he can channel. I've read it four times, and the fourth I still couldn't put it down!

It is confirmed that Episode 6 of Season 1 is titled "The Flame of Tar Valon", so it seems that will be the start of TGH. So hopefully five episodes for each book.

14 hours ago, johnnysd2 said:

 

Sex sells, though I dont think it will be raunchy like GOT. 

 

Sad commentary on our society. It used to be "it's nobody's business what people do in their own bedrooms". Now people want to see it all over their tv screens.

But I agree that I don't think they will take it to the degree GoT did. Lord I hope not. I noticed the sex decreased in the later seasons. I guess with it's popularity they figured it wasn't as necessary.

Something that just occurred to me. Siuan and Leane were not the first Aes Sedai to be stilled, and not all previously stilled Aes Sedai were immediately executed, so it seems the change in facial appearance should have been noted before and not have been such a surprise.

Did Jordan say that? I thought that was just a fan theory. It would have to be in the far future for the continents to be so different.

It's almost like Jordan put a bunch of ethnic cultural features into a bag, shook it up and then just added them at random for each country. Except Cairhien. They seem very 18th century French with their fair skin and the women's fashions, not to mention the Game of Houses, although that would apply to any European monarchy.

While it's true that Aes Sedai keep the smooth skin of a 20-something, the books say over and over though that you can't put any age to an Aes Sedai. At first glance they look young, at next glance they look older, then younger again.

23 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

From what they have released on their plans, it sounds like, Elayne and Aviendha will share him, but will also be in a romantic relationship with each other.  It sounds like they are planning on having their relationship be a more polyamorous feel to it, with all of them sharing each other.  I'm unsure of what this means for his relationship with Min, because even in the books she didn't really ever feel comfortable with sharing him, and she and Aviendha never really got that close.    

I think that would go over worse than just the three of them sharing Rand. Either stick with the book, or make the relationships occur separately, but having Elayne and Aviendha share Rand AND in a relationship with each other is stretching it too much. It does absolutely nothing to enhance the story. It is simply appeasement and there are already going to be pillow friends.

For some reason I have always had more difficulty finding actors who represent my mental images of the young men in WoT. I finally decided who Galad looks like in my mind--a YOUNG Hugh Grant (with dark eyes though, of course). He would have made me swoon!!

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0PDsBzBRwRdEnIARU1XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=young+hugh+grant&fr=tightropetb#id=142&iurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstaticpopopics.popopics.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2Fhugh-grant-487962.jpg&action=click

On 6/4/2019 at 4:42 PM, DemandredFO said:

Not saying Jeff Bridges but a name would help people suspend disbelief far enough for the wolfbrother stuff

It's a fantasy with magic all around. Seems to me suspending disbelief would go with the territory!

That's a good idea as long as they're as fair as Li is. She looks like a great Moiraine. She was good in "The Meg" (not my kind of movie but hubby has watched it a few times). Based on that and her eyes, I think she could project Moiraine's serenity and wisdom. I think the hardest part about playing Moiraine will be having her strong presence even though she's of short stature.

Here's a great picture:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0508356/mediaviewer/rm106180864

@Dagon Thyne Can he act? I don't remember Elyas being from Tear. Do we learn that early on, or later?

2 hours ago, Tyevic said:

How Texan? I am from Texas and don't see it. They to me are more like the Asian culture than anything else.

I lived in TX for 14 years and the only part about Seanchan that could relate to Texas is their speech--that did make me think of the Texas (or southern) drawl.

On 2/27/2019 at 8:04 AM, Apple151 said:

What to keep: The idea of a wheel of time TV series

 

What to drop: This particular wheel of time TV series.

Don't have faith in Rafe Judkins, huh? I don't keep up with producers, show runners, writers and the like, but looking at his experience, he certainly has never done anything even close to the magnitude of WoT, but then, not many have. Someone who's produced a successful movie trilogy would be the closest.

At least he loves the books, and wants to do them justice.

I am thrilled that Amazon hired Bryan Cogman (from GoT) to advise for their Middle Earth prequel series,; I wish they'd hire him for WoT too!

2 hours ago, DemandredFO said:

@DragonFairyI was trying to be funny but sometimes I assume everyone follows the same things I do, sorry. What I meant was that pillow friends would just confuse a lot of the audience.

Oh, I got that. I just was wondering what you were referring to about JK Rowling. I have heard she's come out with some preposterous stuff about the world of Harry Potter, seemingly just trying to keep herself in the mainstream.

On 5/10/2019 at 3:43 PM, DemandredFO said:

If I were them, I'd just drop pillow friends as it really doesn't add significance to the story and might smack of a J.K. Rowling style pronouncement

I'm all for dropping pillow friends as it contributes absolutely nothing to the story.

What do you mean by JK Rowling style pronouncement?

On 5/10/2019 at 3:43 PM, DemandredFO said:

They have to include Baerlon if for no other reason than that's the first time the boys see the dreaded Aes Sedai as human and the line dancing scene would probably be hilarious too.

I love that dancing scene! I would like to see more dancing scenes because dancing is such an important part of the culture. (Think the Tudors--lots of dancing in that show.)

But they need to keep Baerlon anyway because that is when they first meet Min.

I'm not suggesting they drop Perrin falling in love with Faile, but perhaps not so soon? He was such a strong willed character before he fell in love with her; I never liked him being wrapped around her little finger. I didn't like them as a couple period. Perrin is humble, Faile is arrogant. Perrin is thoughtful, Faile is rash. Perrin is cautious, Faile is headstrong. Perrin is polite, Faile is rude. What on earth is he supposed to see in her?

I loved it when he thought about throwing her overboard ("seriously, this time") when she boards the ship they take to Illian!

On 5/30/2019 at 6:03 PM, SGT She-Wolf said:

Can I have Jeff Bridges as Elyas? Please???

Sure, if you want to pay him ?

On 5/10/2019 at 11:36 AM, johnnysd said:

I know Charlize Theron very much wanted to be in GOT

I'm glad she wasn't! I don't think she's a good enough actress.

On 5/6/2019 at 4:23 PM, Sabio said:

Wouldn't of mattered if any of the others had left, if Rand stayed he would of died and the world would of been screwed.  

 

Did you actually understand all of that post? ?

I wonder if they will do the prologue from each book, or just EotW? Not as a  narrative, I mean just as a the opening scene, or would it seriously disrupt the flow of the episodes? There is some really important information in some of those prologues which could just as easily be worked into an episode, but the prologues usually create some mystery.

On 4/20/2019 at 4:03 PM, mb said:

Al'  has 2 meanings in this series.

in the Borderlands, it means "Lord".

in Two Rivers, it means "son of".

Great Hunt mentioned that difference.

 

Wow, how many times have you read these books that you can remember in which book that was mentioned? I remember lots of events and details, but most of the time, don't ask me which book it was in!

I'm the same with quoting scripture; I can quote a text, but can't remember chapter and verse reference. I like your signature, BTW.

You have to take into account that Mary Poppins was written in the 1930's. Children were expected to adhere to a particular code of conduct, including obeying those in position of authority over them. But she understood children, so she made unpleasant tasks easier, like making a game out of picking up their toys.

Today's children could use a Mary Poppins in their lives. Or maybe the parents...

On 2/3/2019 at 10:58 PM, 2RiversFan said:

Having said that, I don't think she is the glue that holds the series together.  I think the 'glue' is Love/principals/values/morals that the Two Rivers folk in particular have in their DNA.  Never give up, always fight evil.  Whether it is stated explicitly or not, all of the main and secondary characters from the Two Rivers live by the same mantra as the Aiel:
 

“Til shade is gone, 
til water is gone
Into the shadow with teeth bared
Screaming defiance with the last breath
To spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the Last Day.”

I think this a great assessment, and the it's the character development and the relationships between the characters that make WoT such an excellent series.

However, I certainly think Moiraine is one of the 10 most essential characters in the books. Even when she is not present, her influence is felt.

If they choose not to stress the ageless Aes Sedai face too much, I think Kathy Bates would be fabulous as Verwin Sedai.

I know nothing about film making, but I wonder if they can use filters to diminish the look of wrinkles and blemishes like they can in photography. Then they don't have to rely entirely on makeup, although film make up artists can do wonders!